Possible to go to Kent grammar if we live outside Kent?

[Bearcricket]

We are planning to go back to the UK from oversea and now trying to understand the procedure of entering grammar schools. It may be a very basic questions for most of you, but it’s be very helpful if anybody tells me if we need to live in Kent when we accept an offer?(of course, necessary to pass the test first though!) thank you.

[MarchingFrogs]

I don’t know how to travel to Ashton from bromley

Ashton?

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

I suspect that was supposed to type as Sutton @MarchingFrogs

It doesn't look entirely doable on public transport (although a direct route by car) - it would be over an hour each way: www.rome2rio.com/map/Bromley/Sutton

Although there are children who travel from Heathrow direction to the Sutton grammars so there are plenty undertaking journeys just as long (if not longer).

[chalkyc2]

I don't know where Ashton is...?!

You need to do quite a lot of research quite quickly. Bromley isn't especially ideal for Grammar schools tbh as it requires high out of county scores for Kent and Sutton (and long journeys), very high score for St Olaves, or proximity to Bexley for Bexley Grammars.

Why do you want to live in Bromley?

Chis and Sid went out about 4 miles this year I think we worked out for first round offers and is the closest Bexley school to Bromley.

[Bearcricket]

Thank you for your message. Sorry, i mistyped, I meant ‘Sutton’, not Ashton..,
Sounds long journey, so Sutton may not be ideal. We like Bromley area and there are nice stare schools, that’s a reason why we are thinking of Bromley.

[TimeWastingButFun]

Some of the grammar schools in our area have a catchment area but some of the super selective take those with the highest 11+ result and can be out of area.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Sutton could be an alternative to Bromley though to look to live in too? The state secondary schools in Sutton are virtually the highest achieving in the land (even better than Bromley - think second or third in England on an annual basis) and there are some excellent primaries too). Very naice houses heading south from the station area towards Cheam Village - all detached and mostly five/six bedrooms. Much, much cheaper than being a few miles further into London.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

And trains go into the City (Thameslink) and Victoria.

[chalkyc2]

Well we like Bromley! OP we live in the borough right now and went through state and private 11+ this year - feel free to pm me if you want any more local info!

[SJaneS48]

Erm, also seconding Bromley! With apologies to Suttonites as I’ve only driven through it and I take your word that there are ‘naice’ bits that I’ve not seen, Bromley imo is the more attractive. Schools aside, it’s also got a heck of a lot of shops, restaurants etc and good train links both into London and out into Kent. I wouldn’t have thought many Bromley kids made the journey to Sutton grammars but I really don’t know!

As an alternative (and admittedly not a cheap one but very pretty, 30 mins to central London, easy access to a variety of Kent grammars) how about Sevenoaks? Or slightly cheaper (but with a bit of a longer commute) Tunbridge Wells?

[chopc]

What doesn't make sense OP is you want to move to Bromley because it has good state schools. But does it have more than one so that if you don't get first choice , second will also be OK? If not then I would choose an area with a variety of school options you would be happy with.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Sutton is a borough in two halves BUT still one of the safest in London (along with Richmond, Kingston and Bexley). And if you don't see the naice side look here.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

And I don't live in Sutton so not really biased. The High Street is a bit variable but it's defo on the up again (or was before COVID-19 struck).

[SJaneS48]

:-) And I don’t live in Bromley either but go there frequently so hands up to bias! Clicked your link, I’ve only ever passed through it so not an area I know well. Looks like there are some nice properties towards Cheam if you have a very sizeable wedge to spend but if you reverse the prices, there’s page after page after page of not desperately attractive purpose built flats. But to be fair, Bromley has those too!

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

When you look at how little you get for your bucks (comparatively) further into London Sutton always seems to be very good value for money in all sorts of ways. I don't really know SE London well enough to give an opinion on Bromley although I do reckon we passed through it going on holiday to Kent some years ago. Am I right in thinking it's full of naice Victorian/Edwardian villas?

[HappyHammy]

Olave's is easier to get to and you could look at living around that area..what sort of accommodation are you looking for.

[SJaneS48]

@NewModelArmyMayhem18, pretty much but mixed in with standard big gaff surburbia! When I lived in SE London many years ago, Bromley seemed decidedly not London. These days it seems pretty indistinguishable to me!

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

I think that's what Sutton has going for it (in parts) - the spread of detached des res that give it a different vibe to most London suburbs (even the very affluent ones). It doesn't have the character or the Common of Wimbledon Village but housing stock of a more similar genre (except perhaps for Hampstead?) albeit not quite as grand.

I guess some of those areas at the other end of the Northern Line might have the equivalent (isn't that where a lot of the footballers live?) but I don't know that part of London at all.

[Bearcricket]

Thank you so much for your comments! Im sorry that I can’t name each of you.. with your help now we can have a clearer image of our plan. Not concluded yet, but I’m sure we can work out now. Many many thanks to all!

[TW2013]

I think that I would start with a realistic assessment of your son's chances. A super selective like Judd is aiming to take the top 5% of the school population- so in an average class of 30 probably one or two children (and that would be if they were all boys!). Obviously this will vary a little by area so in a more affluent area with high parental investment or a private school there will be more in one class who would qualify. You could get him to take a standardised test looking at English, Maths, Verbal and Non Verbal reasoning. He would need scores averaging over about 130. He also would need to pass all of them so no really low scores. A less selective grammar you are probably looking for scores in the region of 115-120.

This could be your lucky year as many companies who would usually do physical mock exams have had to go online using zoom, likewise many tutors are also doing online lessons. It is worth seeking out a mock test from a local company for a realistic assessment of his chances.

You also need to look at the date requirements for applications. For Kent you need to apply in June to take the test. The test itself is early Sept. Results out mid October. Applications in by end October. You need to check for residency and also if flying in for the test consider and quarantine regulations in force at the time.

It will be tough as some children will have been at private schools AND been specifically preparing for this test since yr5 or earlier. It can be done but may be difficult even before you consider the difference in syllabus, for example maths includes algebra and ratio which even in UK isn't covered until yr6.

Another option might be, considering that he has come from a different system and depending on when his birthday is, asking for him to be kept back a year so go into yr4 and then sit the test next September. It is age adjusted so he would need to get an even higher score, but it would buy you time to settle.

Eleveplusexams.co.uk has a forum with very knowledgeable parents who will be able to give you specific guidance for the schools you are interested in.

[SJaneS48]

As a (v quick add on!), Judd locally is not everyone’s cup of tea. A friend of mine who viewed it plumped for Skinners instead as they found Judd very robotic. That’s just her opinion obviously but before going for it all guns, it’s really important that you genuinely feel it’s a good fit. And with schools closed and you living on the opposite side of the world currently, not immediately achievable!

[Panicmode1]

That's why we went for Skinners over Judd too. And we haven't regretted the choice (which we've made twice so far) for a second!

[chalkyc2]

But skinners now only accessible if you live pretty close due to changing admissions requirements....

[Panicmode1]

Luckily we are v close, but at the time our eldest was going through the sausage machine, there were no inner and outer catchments so we had a true choice. I personally think it is better that they don't have very long journeys. It's fine in the lower end of the school but once the expectations and work rack up for public exams, more than an hour travelling at both ends of the day, possibly after matches/concerts/play rehearsals etc is too much.

[SJaneS48]

I do get what you are saying re long days and do agree but actually logistically, the East Sussex boys who previously had got in on catchment didn’t have a longer journey in many instances than from where I am now in outer Sevenoaks which is in catchment. Having said that, the East Sussex friends with Year 7s I know who missed out on Skinners this year are liking Tunbridge Wells Boys Grammar and Kent schools should really prioritise Kent children.

[Panicmode1]

@SJaneS48 - I think that Skinners' new catchment was designed to admit as many East Sussex boys as they could, given how close the border is to the school. But my eldest has boys in his year coming from Eastbourne, Hastings, as well as SE London every day, which to me is madness. I know it's a fabulous school, but that is a LOT of travelling over a secondary schooling 'career' and puts a huge amount of pressure on children who are also studying for GCSEs and A Levels. Good to hear about TWGSB because if the test happens as usual in Sept, I'm not sure my Y5 son is going to do as well as he would have done without the structure of school and it may be a bit touch and go as to whether he'll be able to follow his brothers. (I really didn't like the boys grammar when we looked at it for my boys, but to be fair, for one of them, that was just as the headship was changing)