Year 9 and Year 10 GCSE students - unfairly treated by Ofqual?

[barbosska]

Students in our school sit GCSE exams in Years 9,10,11. Each of these year groups has lessons in Math, English, Science plus 2-3 GCSE courses of their choice. Each GCSE course runs for a year instead of two, and students from Year 9,10 and 11 all sit together in the same lessons and then sit GCSEs together. They do not study any other subjects except for the above.

Yesterday's Ofqual indicated that Year 9 and 10 students will not be awarded the GCSE grades because they can do these exams in Year 11. This would however put them in a highly disadvantageous position next Year, as not only they would need to do remaining GCSEs in one year instead of two, but also to keep on top of the subjects they have learnt this year and for which they were ready to sit exams.

There are not many schools in the country who organise GCSEs this way and I would very much appreciate to hear from people in the same situation as us: what are you and your schools planning to do?

All these children have sat in one class listening to the same teacher, did the same job, had the same teacher and now Year 11 will get the grades and the rest of students will not - how is that fair? Ofqual should have at least left to the discretion of the schools whether to , but not just pull them all out from the exam registers. Ofqual said they will run a consultation soon, but who are they going to consult - just their internal departments? The fact they they have come up with the proposition already indicates that they have no idea how some schools structure their courses.

[Easilyanxious]

Hi I'm not sure if they are approaching ofqual re : result they just said they were waiting clarification on it.
I will contact them after Easter to ask if we have not heard , bearing in mind these year 10'a are also going to miss out on good few weeks of gcse learning as well as can't all be done at home and for some impossible

[slothbyday]

Ofqual have been very clear form day one that they did not want to use predicted grades if it could be avoided. First option was always to delay assessment, second adapt, third predict.

Since y10 and 9 can have a delayed assessment they do not need to go through adapt and predict. They can take it in the resit period in autumn. They haven't been disadvantaged at all, they are able to show what they can do appropriately whereas the y11's can't because they are moving onto the next phase.

Never heard of a school doing what yours are doing and they would be seen as high risk by many for doing it.

[barbosska]

ChloeDecker

The school has an oversubscribed 6th form too. One quarter of the Y11 plus external candidates proceed to it.

There was a comment from someone earlier on this thread that students cannot do medicine if they follow a staggered GCSE route, as top universities do not like it.

This is not the case: last year 25 out of 60 Sixth form leavers went on to study Medicine. Others went to other department of Oxbridge and Russel group.

[Easilyanxious]

Why is it not better you are still sitting one exam earlier if your capable ? Exams aren't for everybody and sitting 11 at once isn't always ideal . My other son is doing a couple of btechs as well which I'm glad at a he also won't have to sit so many papers . He will still be working as hard as Btech work is consistently marked and ha lots of coursework in it . It's not cheating taking an exam you are still sitting it wether a year early or not . Some are saying it's unfair why ? The system isn't exactly fair anyway, my oldest has been judged in his ability in a few hrs of exams and got quite a bit below his capabilities as exams aren't his strongpoint not all children are capable of sitting multiple exams , some should maybe just sit 6 or 7 and do well at those rather than be made to take more, or doing a couple year earlier and spreading them out makes total sense to me

[barbosska]

slothbyday

"Since y10 and 9 can have a delayed assessment they do not need to go through adapt and predict. They can take it in the resit period in autumn."

This would have been great, but this is not what Ofqual said. Exams in September are for those who get the grades and are not happy with them. If Y9 and 10 do not get the grades, they cannot sit them in September. Although perhaps the consultation will eventually let them sit exams they have studied for , in September too.

[barbosska]

slothbyday

just re-read the guidance. It says: "Y10 can do exams in future exam series."

So maybe Y 10 can do them in September too.

[ChloeDecker]

Interestingly, since Sept 2019, there have been no schools that have been awarded ‘outstanding’ who were previously ‘outstanding’ and only 6 awarded good to outstanding. Didn’t you say your school has always been awarded outstanding at every visit, OP?

www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/monthly-management-information-ofsteds-school-inspections-outcomes

[Easilyanxious]

Op I think it's likely ours will be expected to take end of year 11 and as other people's schools don't do it they can't see issue , my concern is also that my year 10 is missing quite a lot of school year which of course can't be helped and if they go back in September they have a lot of catching up to do as I appreciate all years do ,but year 10 and 13 will be sitting mocks shortly after going back and will have a lot of catching up to do quite quickly .If they allow the schools to enter them they should at least allow them to sit in autumn as they have prepared for it just as much but for those whose children aren't affected they won't see the issue

[ChloeDecker]

It's not cheating taking an exam you are still sitting it wether a year early or not
Exam boards specifically have engineered their exams to be sat as a terminal year in Year 11, that’s why. Some schools, like the OP’s and yours are happy for this terminal year to be in Year 9 or 10 and take the hit on league tables presumably.
It is not better when a student opts to take a subject they have last studied in Year 9, for A Level, for example.

[barbosska]

Easilyanxious

Totally agree with you on your last comment. Doing 25 separate exams for 11 GCSEs in 1.5 months in Y11 is a cruelty to children and is certainly not the best way to access someone's ability. And what if child gets, say , a cold and is off-sick for a week?

If there were 11 exams for 11 subjects, then it would have been OK, but when each exam has 2-4 separate modules, it is hard. And then for Art for example, the practical exam runs for ten hours ( five hours a day for two days), and then the student is expected to do Physics the following morning, for example.

Or they have no exams for a week and two on the same day, how is that friendly to children and not putting under undue stress?

Why the numerous exam board cannot ensure that there are no overlaps in the exams? They are commercial organisations who charge fees and should be able to provide this service.

[barbosska]

ChloeDecker

it's interesting you've said in your comment: "Some schools, like the OP’s and yours are happy for this terminal year to be in Year 9 or 10 and take the hit on league tables presumably."

But others respondents on this thread were saying that the school is inflating its league by doing early GCSES. So there is no consensus even on this point : whether early exams inflate or deflate the league tables.

[titchy]

Doing 25 separate exams for 11 GCSEs in 1.5 months in Y11 is a cruelty to children and is certainly not the best way to access someone's ability. And what if child gets, say , a cold and is off-sick for a week?

Well the vast majority of 16 year olds manage this 'cruelty' If a kids sick for one of their exams their results can be based on the other exam.

Or they have no exams for a week and two on the same day, how is that friendly to children and not putting under undue stress?

But every other kid manages this. Avoiding stress and exams is really poor practice - kids need to learn strategies to deal with taking exams over a short space of time.

The exam boards do coordinate timetables btw, but it isn't always possible to space things out given weird combinations that some kids do.

[Hercwasonaroll]

No child needs to be off sick for a week with a cold fgs!

[VivaLeBeaver]

I think be thankful that your kid won’t have to sit a gcse at 14yo after a shorter period of teaching. Dodged a bullet.

School will have to sort out teaching next year to keep them current/fresh.

[BelleSausage]

I call bullshit.

As Chloe Decker has already pointed out, no mainstream school as kept it’s Outstanding status under Ofsted under the new inspection regime.

OP- you could tell us the name of the school and we could read the inspection report ourselves.

It would be an utter scandal if a school retained Outstanding while running GCSEs in this manner. There is no rigour in that system.

OR this is a private school and is actually inspected by ISI. Which would make more sense.

[barbosska]

ChloeDecker
just checked the school's website - the last Full Ofsted inspections was in 2014. The one this year was a " No designation inspection", not sure what it means, but they rated effectiveness 9.

[Gatehouse77]

My experience from my childhood was that no one took exams early but the able ones did AO levels, S levels, etc.

My eldest was part of an experiment at his school - they did Eng Lit in Y10 and Eng Lang in Y11. I'm assuming it didn't work, overall, as 2 years later my next didn't do it.

As an invigilator, the only people doing exams early are usually in a language (bilingual students normally).

Given it's not the 'norm' I'd expect the guidance to be based on what the majority do and set my expectation low for those that go off script. There are much more urgent things that need addressing than students who can still take those exams at a later date along with their cohort.

[StampMc]

Art exams are taken in April. Nobody is walking out of a 10 hour art exam and straight into physics.
4 exams for a subject isn’t normal, nor is sitting 11 different subjects. Nobody is sitting 44 exams. Before the exams proper start, art is completely out of the way, as are big chunks of mfl, music, drama, food tech, DT etc. Even dcs who don’t do any of these subjects would be unlikely to have more than 22 exams for 9 subjects over a 5-6 week period. It’s not “cruel”

[ChloeDecker]

OP, in England, only a first entry in exams (to prevent multiple resits) are included in the league tables and this was assumed by Ofqual and exam boards that the terminal year would and should be Year 11. A few schools relied on these resits to get better results in the past. A tiny minority of schools looked at how they could continue to play the system and have instead gone against guidance, as you say.

Of course it is easier in the short term to do exams the way your school does them OP -that’s why your school is doing it that way but it is not the way the vast majority of schools are doing them (who are following what they are supposed to) and therefore your school is causing a disparity that means the majority of the time, they ‘win’ the system. This time, instead, it is every other school who is ‘winning’ just this once. (And I wouldn’t say thy are winning-there are few winners in this awful situation)

That’s why posters are saying your school is unfair. They have caused this situation with your child. No one else.

This is an article that I strongly suggest you read OP to understand the data and how few schools do what your school does (and it refutes your claim that 500,000 odd children will be affected)

ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2019/08/gcse-results-2019-to-what-extent-are-schools-entering-pupils-early/

[ChloeDecker]

The one this year was a " No designation inspection", not sure what it means, but they rated effectiveness 9.

It means no one came to visit your school. It means they checked the data, we’re happy, and put it back in the cycle. Thankfully, this is stopping with the new Ofsted Deep Dives. It also means previous posters were correct in their assumptions.

[Blueemeraldagain]

The current exam system is crazily intense. There is no denying that. Students have to do a much higher number of exams for fewer qualifications. I am not defending that. What I, and I took most posters, are saying is that the system has to be a fair as possible. A school leaver who did 20+ exams in one sitting competing against a school leaver who did roughy 7 a year for three years isn’t fair. I know it can never be a completely level playing field (I went to private school and now teach in an SEMH school so I have seen it very close up) but schools should be ashamed of this blatant manipulation.

If forced to sit exams at the appropriate time it will be interesting to see how the results/university offers actually compare to national levels.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I do think the year 10 and year 12 students are the ones who ultimately will perhaps be worse affected by this. They will have missed a terms teaching of their subjects and still have to sit their exams next year.

[okiedokieme]

Blame the school as they should not be entering kids this way. They can take the exam next year after revising

[Easilyanxious]

My understanding is that first exam result is what's I league table law so if fail razors etc don't count so wouldn't inflate a school if lots fail taking too early
I can still see benefit of taking one year early and they would have option to re take if they wanted .
My year 10 is going to have a huge challenge ahead and I would be fine with teacher assessments personally when it comes to my children as they both under perform in exams others would prefer exams as their children may be better at exams . But these year groups were accepted for the exams therefore should really be given same options . If ofsted don't like it then they should not allow schools to enter early . But I'm not a fan of ofsted anyway . And yes my son did sit 11 GCSE's and not because he's exceptionally bright just how many it worked out , he was last year to do that as we style gcse he also sat and due them being supposedly a little harder school have dropped an option so no one is doing 11 anymore

[Easilyanxious]

Sorry for all typos my phone changed half the words
Op think we will just have to wait and see I'm sure something will be announced soon