Year 9 and Year 10 GCSE students - unfairly treated by Ofqual?

[barbosska]

Students in our school sit GCSE exams in Years 9,10,11. Each of these year groups has lessons in Math, English, Science plus 2-3 GCSE courses of their choice. Each GCSE course runs for a year instead of two, and students from Year 9,10 and 11 all sit together in the same lessons and then sit GCSEs together. They do not study any other subjects except for the above.

Yesterday's Ofqual indicated that Year 9 and 10 students will not be awarded the GCSE grades because they can do these exams in Year 11. This would however put them in a highly disadvantageous position next Year, as not only they would need to do remaining GCSEs in one year instead of two, but also to keep on top of the subjects they have learnt this year and for which they were ready to sit exams.

There are not many schools in the country who organise GCSEs this way and I would very much appreciate to hear from people in the same situation as us: what are you and your schools planning to do?

All these children have sat in one class listening to the same teacher, did the same job, had the same teacher and now Year 11 will get the grades and the rest of students will not - how is that fair? Ofqual should have at least left to the discretion of the schools whether to , but not just pull them all out from the exam registers. Ofqual said they will run a consultation soon, but who are they going to consult - just their internal departments? The fact they they have come up with the proposition already indicates that they have no idea how some schools structure their courses.

[BelleSausage]

Agreed @titchy

This sounds like a pretty cynical attempt by SLT to get round the system for their own benefit.

Year 9 students are not mature enough to take GCSEs. Putting them under that strain is ludicrous. What happens to the ones that don’t pass in Yr 9? Do they have more to take in Yr 10 and even more in Yr11?

The head wants their arse kicking.

[user1353245678533567]

So, basically what you are saying is if someone gets 9 in, say, History GCSE in Year 9, he/she is less capable then someone who gets 9 in Year 11, right? Is this not the other way round?

Well, how would that person progress to A level in history having had a two year gap since sitting their history GCSE? It's already a hefty leap without any gap.

Even if they get high grades it disadvantages them when it comes to the next stage.

[Theholidayarmadillo4]

Some small schools do this because of staffing. I know some tiny schools that do it this way as timetabling leaves no other option.

[Princessdebthe1st]

OP,
Can I confirm does the way your school organises things mean that students are not doing maths and English for all of year 9, 10 and 11? Do they have a year or more when they are not taught these or are these always taught?

[ProggyMat]

barbosska -you’ve said you observed your DD sat 11 GCSEs last year and it was a ‘nightmare’-why given a lot of DCs are in similar circumstances each year?
Also, in Yr9 you’ve stated that your DS achieved 3 GCSEs which were graded at a 9.
How many was he planning to sit at the end of Yr10 and then Yr11?
As other posters have pointed out,, your DS’s school is not the ‘norm’ but I’d be interested in knowing how you can assert that a DC gaining a 9 in Yr9 under the ‘system’ your DS is being educated in, is more capable than a DC whom gains a 9 in whatever subject whilst sitting 11 GCSEs in one sitting at the end of Yr11?

[ChloeDecker]

I feel your school has tried to bend the rules a little too much and has got caught out. I don’t think it is a Ofqual who have disadvantaged your students there...

[OddBoots]

How do students cope taking A levels in subjects the took the GCSE for in Y9?

[lucymaudmonty]

It's the school's fault for doing it this way. They are meant to be studied over 2 years and sat at the end of y11.

[MarchingFrogs]

@barbosska, you're not in Harlow, are you?

[barbosska]

I've just looked at last year GCSE statistics by year group. About 10% of students do some GCSEs in Year 9 and 10, so this looks like not such an unusual thing for schools to do, albeit they are in minority

[Hercwasonaroll]

It's very unusual and ofsted advise against it for all the reasons listed above.

Ofqual aren't at fault here.

[barbosska]

MarchingFrogs
No, we are not

[Crookshanksthecat]

I'm afraid I think it's the school that are disadvantaging the children here because they've tried to play the system for better results.

I still don't understand how a student could continue a subject at Alevel having taken the GCSE in year 9 and then not studied it for 2 years. Even year 10 and had a year off. This is a massive disadvantage to the student. And if they only follow Alevels of subjects they took in year 11 then surely they'd have to know this at the beginning of year 9 or 10 which is far too early to be making those kind of decisions.

I have to say I'm quite baffled why any school would follow this system other than trying to skew the results in their favour, prioritising results over education.

[barbosska]

noblegiraffe

From now to the end of June is two months, given Easter break. Two months is not a full academic year to catch up on 2 years months of tuition. Even if they continue through July and August this gives 4 months vs 9 of academic year

[barbosska]

Princessdebthe1st

they do English, Match and Science in Y9, 10 and 11.
If they do , for example, History GCSE in Y9, then they do not do it in Y10-11, but can take it for A level.

[noblegiraffe]

They don’t need a full extra academic year. They’ve been taught the GCSE, right? So they can go into the next year and do the new GCSEs as planned. They can also stretch this teaching out with the extra time they’ve now got due to exams being cancelled, giving them extra time on the side to revise (not teach, because it’s already been taught) the GCSEs that they’ve already completed but not sat.

[barbosska]

OddBoots

I suppose, this depends on a student. If someone takes History for A level after doing GCSE in year 9, most likely that student is interested in the subject outside of the school anyway, so he/she should be fine. I do not know if GCSE and A level teaches the same curriculum, so cannot comment if one has to remember the material from Y 9.

[barbosska]

ProggyMat

They do 2 GCSEs in Y9, 3 in Y 10 and 6 in Y 11. He did 3 GCSE in Y9 due to community language, which was his choice.

[barbosska]

titchy

"...And did every single kid get 3 x 9s in year 9? No. So the ones who didn't have been short changed. They would undoubtedly have got better grades with two years maturity."

May be , may be not. They may have been distracted by teenage interests:)


"...And most kids that only ever sit 3 subjects at a time will struggle when suddenly they're expected to do three times that at A Level."

They do not do only three subjects. They do Math, English, Sciences + 3 GCSEs in Y 10. In Y11 they will do 6 GCSEs. And at A level they all do 3 subjects anyway.

"There are also a handful of uni courses that your school has ruled its kids out of - unis expect kids to be able to cope with 8 subjects at a time."

Those who go to Unis will do A levels first, which from my understanding should prepare one for the Uni.

I am not advocating the system our school has. It was not our choice but it worked well for us.


From all respondents on this thread it looks that only one other person has a similar system in their school, but less radical, they do 1 GCSE in Y 9 and 1 in Y 10.

[barbosska]

This is an old article, but it looks like early GCSE were a regular occurrence 10 years ago

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11071156

[noblegiraffe]

Yes they were a regular occurrence 10 years ago and it was shit and kids did worse than they would have done if they’d sat their GCSEs at the correct time - published research showed this.

And that’s why the DfE implemented the ‘first entry only’ rule for the league tables and Ofsted told schools to STOP DOING IT.

[titchy]

Yes they were 10 years ago. Then OFSTED and DfE realised that schools like this were gaming the system, and it was giving kids a very poor educational experience and yes it does pull grades down, and all but banished it.

Some unis (E.g. for Medical courses ranked applicants by gcse grade - best 8 of those taken in year 11 - it's unusual but bars your schools kids from offers).

GCSEs are designed for the maturity level of 16 year olds. Not 14 year olds.

6 GCSEs in year 11 is not a full workload - that's what I meant about kids struggling with the leap to A level. Particularly if they haven't studied the subject for one or two years. Imagine loving Humanities or languages, and no longer studying them beyond age 14, having to do Maths and science instead (why - less maturity needed for those) for two years. How to turn teens off eduction!

[AprilFloundering]

Blame your school.

My Year 10 was due to sit one GCSE this year, along with all the other year 10s: Ethics/RE. It's mandatory anyway at our school and it gives them a reality check of what they'll need to do in Year 11 if they don't take it seriously.

The only other GCSEs taken early around here as far as i can tell are a small number of students take Art or Music GCSEs early, generally those who have amazing talent in those areas anyway and can get it out of the way with high marks, while continuing to study all the regular other roughly 10 GCSE courses.

[MrsElijahMikaelson1]

Your DC school played the system to help its results table-your DC school lost. I would be more mindful of complaining about that and why the school decided to not oblige by DfE guidelines rather than raging about why the gaming didn’t work!
And yes, a grade 9 in history when you’re also taking another 9 exams at the same time, IS better than a grade 9 when only studying/sitting another 2 exams and I am flummoxed as t to why you can’t see that tbh 🤷‍♀️

[ProggyMat]

barbosska
Ah, thanks for explaining the split across years.
What was the other subject your DS sat last year in Yr9 ?
And which 3 subjects would he have sat this May/June -if not in the same position as the current Yr11s are?