My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary education

Should people who attend Nazi conferences get government funding?

174 replies

noblegiraffe · 10/01/2018 23:57

Ok, provocative title, but it's hard to distil this situation into a few words. Yes it's about Toby Young.

News has come out about a secret conference held for the last few years at UCL. Invite-only, secret and small, it has apparently been attended by a neo-nazi and a paedophilia supporter. The conference is apparently about the inheritability of intelligence but has also looked at race and intelligence and eugenics.
The Telegraph details the conference here: www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/01/10/ucl-launches-eugenics-probe-emerges-academic-held-controversial/

It appears that Toby Young was one of the invitees to this secret invite-only conference. Aside from writing misogynistic tweets, he has also written an article supporting 'progressive eugenics'. The Guardian talks about Toby Young's involvement here:

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jan/10/ucl-to-investigate-secret-eugenics-conference-held-on-campus

Given that the attendees were aware of the unacceptable nature of their discussions so held them in secret and that the fact that the conferences are now banned and are being investigated, it's clear that something pretty unsavoury has been going on.

Toby Young has resigned from his position on the board of the Office for Students, and it appears his resignation may be linked to these revelations. Toby Young also pulls in a fat salary as Director of the New Schools Network. The New Schools Network is a charity, but it receives the majority of its funding from the DfE. Surely his position there is also untenable?

OP posts:
Report
Piggywaspushed · 11/01/2018 12:01

Haha - but isn't his book called How To Alienate People'?

No one wants to help him much, I gather - other than out of concern for the children.

Many of the staff are Oxbridge graduates but not from conventional teaching backgrounds, as is the case in many free schools. Fine, if they can do the job : but lots are jumping ship when they realise it's not all about being an academic, even if one has a Latin motto.

It is almost entirely reliant on boys' club type networks and Teach First/ Now for recruitment.

Report
ChattyLion · 11/01/2018 13:23

Polly Toynbee has covered it

The Torygraph cover it but do not seem to mention TY. Who has very topical links to higher education policy world. In an Article written by tthe Telegraph’s educational correspondent. Rather a strange oversight.

Report
Piggywaspushed · 11/01/2018 13:54

That Telegraph article is just horrific to read.

I can't see how nay right minded person would conclude Young's role is viable.

Report
showersinger · 11/01/2018 14:58

This is from Toby Young's article "The Fall of the Meritocracy":
"Progressive eugenics
[...] the solution I want to explore here. I’m more interested in the potential of a technology that hasn’t been invented yet: genetically engineered intelligence. [...] I’m thinking in particular of the work being done by Stephen Hsu [...] Hsu believes that within ten years machine learning applied to large genomic datasets will make it possible for parents to screen embryos in vitro and select the most intelligent one to implant. Geoffrey Miller, an evolutionary psychologist at New York University, describes how the process would work:
Any given couple could potentially have several eggs fertilized in the lab with the dad’s sperm and the mom’s eggs. Then you can test multiple embryos and analyze which one’s going to be the smartest. That kid would belong to that couple as if they had it naturally, but it would be the smartest a couple would be able to produce if they had 100 kids. It’s not genetic engineering or adding new genes, it’s the genes that couples already have.
It’s worth repeating this last point, because it deals with one of the main reservations people will have about this procedure: these couples wouldn’t be creating a super-human in a laboratory, but choosing the smartest child from the range of all the possible children they could have. Nevertheless, this could have a decisive impact. “This might mean the difference between a child who struggles in school, and one who is able to complete a good university degree,” says Hsu.
My proposal is this: once this technology becomes available, why not offer it free of charge to parents on low incomes with below-average IQs? Provided there is sufficient take-up, it could help to address the problem of flat-lining inter-generational social mobility and serve as a counterweight to the tendency for the meritocratic elite to become a hereditary elite. It might make all the difference when it comes to the long-term sustainability of advanced meritocratic societies.

[...] If people from all classes used it in exactly the same proportions, all you’d succeed in doing would be to increase the average IQ of each class, thereby preserving the gap between them. Wouldn’t it be better to limit its use to disadvantaged parents with low IQs? That way, it could be used as a tool to reduce inequality.[27]
This technology might actually be more effective than anything else we’ve tried when it comes to tackling the issue of entrenched poverty, with the same old problems—teenage pregnancy, criminality, drug abuse, ill health—being passed down from one generation to the next like so many poisonous heirlooms.

END OF QUOTE

So, basically, screen the poor embryos so they´re born less dumb. I'm specially interested in his linking criminality and drug abuse in the lower classes to low IQ. Fascinated, really. I'd like to know how he explains ill health, mental illness, drug abuse, corruption, tax evasion, pederasty, etc amongst the very rich (which according to him have higher IQs). Confused

Full article here: quadrant.org.au/magazine/2015/09/fall-meritocracy/

Report
PerkingFaintly · 11/01/2018 15:06

Shock So that's Toby himself done away with before implantation then!

He's actually too thick to realise he's thick, isn't he?

Report
Peregrina · 11/01/2018 15:10

I don't doubt that Young, Boris Johnson and Gove to name three are intelligent. Are they better people than you or me? I think not.

Report
squishysquirmy · 11/01/2018 15:13

Suggesting that intelligence can be inherited is NOT the same as worrying that certain races will "drag down" a country's overall intelligence if they have too many children.
The first is not a taboo subject at all as far as I am aware, but the fact that papers presented at the conference were saying the latter is deeply concerning.

I believe in free speech, and would far rather that dubious claims are torn to shreds with a decent counter argument than banned outright, but its pretty hard for this to happen when meetings are happening in secret!

Report
Piggywaspushed · 11/01/2018 15:15

shower written for the American neoNazis liberals that one!

Of course, it is all just one prolonged Oedipal stab and bizarre stealth boast all t the same time at his father.

And I can't bear the phoney American English he uses!

By the way peregrine depending on how intelligent you want people to be, Toby Young's A level results tell a different story as to his level of academic excellence.

Gove, on the other hand, is ferociously bright : which is a lot of his problem.

Report
PerkingFaintly · 11/01/2018 15:18

Toby Young is not academically intelligent!

He failed consistently in academics even when people fell over themselves to help him. He was a failure at school, a failure when given second and third chances, and ended up with his father blagging his way into Oxford for him after he'd failed even the offer of 3Bs for entry on a special access scheme.

He's not very bright!

Report
TheFallenMadonna · 11/01/2018 15:18

What puzzled me about the furore over his recent appointment is why the things that make Toby Young unfit to hold a post in Higher Education do not affect his fitness to hold a far more hands on position in primary and secondary education.

Report
TheFallenMadonna · 11/01/2018 15:21

The leader of the Commons Select committee who was so outspoken about removing him from the HE role said he hoped he would stay on at West London Free School. I couldn't understand why the Today programme interviewer didn't question that. It seems an odd position to take.

Report
ADarkandStormyKnight · 11/01/2018 15:43

Toby got a First in PPE.

Report
Rosewatersoap · 11/01/2018 16:07

"If people from all classes used it in exactly the same proportions, all you’d succeed in doing would be to increase the average IQ of each class, thereby preserving the gap between them. Wouldn’t it be better to limit its use to disadvantaged parents with low IQs? That way, it could be used as a tool to reduce inequality."

Would these super smart poor people then get scholarships to the top private and public schools? Because in the UK it's not how smart you are but what school your parents were able to afford to send you to. Why not do away with private and public schools and fund early years, primary and secondary education to close the gap between rich and poor? Toby's musings are those of a not terribly bright mind, maybe he wishes his parents had screened their embryos? Wink

On a separate note, of course intelligence is in part inherited as are looks, and some talents, but research in the field of epigenetics suggests that a person's environment and upbringing shapes their abilities, it's not purely innate and it is a life long process.

What a tosser!

Report
Piggywaspushed · 11/01/2018 16:15

I didn't know he got a first to be fair. How wonderful for him to have flourished when given all this opportunity to mix with the brightest and best stimulated and inspired him. Lovely when that is handed to you on a plate.

Thing about Toby is even his 'better side' is self motivated. He is patron of a charity directed linked to a disability his brother has; he runs schemes to get state school pupils into Oxbridge and US universities because he thinks of himself as a normal state educated person. He set up a free school because he said he couldn't afford to send 4 children private and the local comprehensives were not good enough for his children.

These are noble things (not so sure about the third one) : but none of them is entirely altruistic.

Report
PerkingFaintly · 11/01/2018 16:17

He failed all his O levels first time round, got 4 C-grades and a CSE next time round, left school, then got even more help but managed only to get 2 Bs and C having a go at A-level.

He makes no secret of this: //www.spectator.co.uk/2008/09/status-anxiety-49/

He's big on the chutzpah though...

He's also a classic example of the sort of student an Oxbridge tutor friend told me about. She horrified me by saying that, in order to keep her appointment with me, she'd turned down a request for extra tuition from a student. It was exam term - I thought she should have postponed me.

Nah, she said. He'd done naff all work all year, but was the sort of over-confident, highly articulate type who would retain whatever she said in a last-minute tutorial long enough to spin it into a bullshitty essay in the exam room, and get marks neither his work nor his understanding merited. What's more, by doing this special favour, she'd be giving him an unfair leg-up against the students who'd actually turned up throughout the year and mastered the material.

I was still a bit taken aback, but I know exactly the sort of person she was talking about.

Report
Piggywaspushed · 11/01/2018 16:21

Yes, I think we all know such blaggers!

It's galling how well they often do and how proud they invariably are of their undeserved successes.

Report
noblegiraffe · 11/01/2018 16:26

If Toby Young’s so bright why did he not realise the clash between serious public office and behaving like Dapper Laughs on twitter?

If he’s so bright, then why exactly was he boasting about being at this top secret cloak-and-dagger conference at another conference? FFS even the organisers knew to keep it quiet.

OP posts:
Report
ADarkandStormyKnight · 11/01/2018 16:35

I suspect his main motivation his biting his thumb at his progressive father.

Also fear of 'ordinary' people outshing him, even without the significant advantages he has had in life.

Report
Peregrina · 11/01/2018 16:45

Back in the 1960s and early 70s BBC were good enough grades for most universities. Not Oxbridge though - but then didn't Prince Charles get in on something like a C and a D? Grades which would have caused laughter from an ordinary candidate.

Report
PricklyBall · 11/01/2018 16:48

@noblegiraffe

This is horrifying stuff! I wonder if it's worth getting MN to move this thread somewhere more mainstream, like chat, unless you have a particular reason for wanting it in secondary education (not sure how many people who aren't teachers or have children of the appropriate age look in here). This is the sort of revelation which should absolutely bury Young's political career in a civilized society.

Report
Piggywaspushed · 11/01/2018 16:50

Toby likes to think his offer of BBB was a result of his amazing interview , I am sure. I rather suppose it was because of his illustrious lineage. Unlike the child of many leading thinkers, celebrities, actors etc, he and his father made no efforts to disguise who he was. In fact, it was his father who out him up to applying under the 'disadavantaged' banner in the first place!

Report
Clavinova · 11/01/2018 16:51

Oh dear UCL.
However, which year did Toby Young attend the conference - 2016 or 2017? I can only see names of speakers and attendees for 2015/2016 - was he at these conferences? Have I misread or is that why the Telegraph didn't mention him - he wasn't at the same conference? Who were the speakers and attendees in 2017?

Report
ADarkandStormyKnight · 11/01/2018 17:06

prickly it also comes up in 'active', which is how I found it.

Report
HevvaSoBored · 11/01/2018 17:07
Report
LineysRunt · 11/01/2018 17:29

That 'disadvantaged' banner - my son's friend from state school (next to bottom centile) got into Oxford to read PPE on an offer of AAA.

Fuck me, the Honorable Toby Young must have been absolutely hypnotic at interview.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.