Should people who attend Nazi conferences get government funding?

[noblegiraffe]

Ok, provocative title, but it's hard to distil this situation into a few words. Yes it's about Toby Young.

News has come out about a secret conference held for the last few years at UCL. Invite-only, secret and small, it has apparently been attended by a neo-nazi and a paedophilia supporter. The conference is apparently about the inheritability of intelligence but has also looked at race and intelligence and eugenics.
The Telegraph details the conference here: www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/01/10/ucl-launches-eugenics-probe-emerges-academic-held-controversial/

It appears that Toby Young was one of the invitees to this secret invite-only conference. Aside from writing misogynistic tweets, he has also written an article supporting 'progressive eugenics'. The Guardian talks about Toby Young's involvement here:

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jan/10/ucl-to-investigate-secret-eugenics-conference-held-on-campus

Given that the attendees were aware of the unacceptable nature of their discussions so held them in secret and that the fact that the conferences are now banned and are being investigated, it's clear that something pretty unsavoury has been going on.

Toby Young has resigned from his position on the board of the Office for Students, and it appears his resignation may be linked to these revelations. Toby Young also pulls in a fat salary as Director of the New Schools Network. The New Schools Network is a charity, but it receives the majority of its funding from the DfE. Surely his position there is also untenable?

[LineysRunt]

Yes, it was a 'conference' deliberately kept under the radar for four years. Not academic in the slightest. No open call for papers, no peer-reviewed sifting of abstracts, nada.

[ChattyLion]

But these aren’t cutting edge scientific ideas worthy of academic debate to see what we can learn from them.
They’re moth-eaten old racist claims. Why would anyone want to give them credence?

[Ifailed]

The PE article states that he was invited to attend by James Thompson. Either you believe this was just a random invite and Young went along out of curiosity, or you believe he was invited because he has expressed an interest in the views being discussed.

[Nousernameforme]

YY ChattyLion

[noblegiraffe]

Remember Toby Young was hired to the Office for Students overseeing universities with a particular focus on free speech. Jo Johnson was talking about finding universities who no-platform speakers.

Was this the sort of thing they had in mind? Toby Young talking about the poor neo-Nazis who have to discuss their eugenics in secret?

[noblegiraffe]

Not just pertaining to state-funded education, funded mainly by the DfE. His NSN salary is something like £70-100k.

Previous post should say fine universities who no-platform, not find!

[FaithHopeCharityDesperation]

I didn't call him a Nazi, but he attended a conference also attended by at least one neo-nazi.

If you are desperate to label people based on who they attended conferences with, then why focus on someone who has already stepped down?
Where is the orchestrated outrage at Corbyn et al?

[Peregrina]

Has Corbyn written papers promoting eugenics? If so, then he should be condemned also.

It needs to be remembered that at the turn of the last century a belief in eugenics was fashionable. It took the Nazis to make people realise how abhorrent its end results could be. It would be good to believe that we had moved one since a century ago, but it seems not.

What makes Toby Young think he is of finer stock that you or me, or Joe Bloggs down the road?

[20nil]

I’m an academic and I go to conferences. I’ve never been to a secret one or have even heard of one. It’s secret status rings a million warning bells.

[Peregrina]

I didn't call him a Nazi, but he attended a conference also attended by at least one neo-nazi.

People are judged by the company they keep.

[Holliewantstobehot]

He follows some of these people on twitter. He's not some guy who accidentally went to a seminar. There is no way he should be anywhere near education.

[Holliewantstobehot]

He follows Emil Kirkegaard. The one who said it was ok to rape a child if you drugged them first as they wouldn't know anything about it.

[thecatfromjapan]

Faith He hasn't 'stepped down', not entirely, anyway.

He's still (as far as I know) receiving payment (indirectly) from the Department for Education in his role for the Network for New Schools - which is a charity funded by the Department for Education.

Why?

How is this acceptable?

Why is someone this unsuitable - and the racist views they help launder - still being given credibility by the Department for Education?

How on earth has this happened?

[LineysRunt]

And I read that that role with NFS normally precedes an even higher role in government circles.

[Rosewatersoap]

FFS this is scandalous. What a despicable man.

"how much is rebelling against daddy"
Who's his daddy?

What a depressing read this thread is, it leaves really bad after taste. where are our decent politicians? I am embarrassed by British politics.

[LineysRunt]

His father was a Labour politician who became a baron or something. Coined 'meritocracy' I think.

[Piggywaspushed]

His father was a very significant intellectual
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Young,_Baron_Young_of_Dartington
I am surprised this isn't more well know actually - but probably because Young's ideas have gone out of fashion a bit.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

There is no reason at all for a discussion on the inheritability of intelligence or the role of genetics and epigenetics in it to be held in secret. It’s discussed a lot and debate is largely about extent rather than a black and white situation.

The only reason you might do so is if that’s not actually what you are discussing or if your take on it is so unpalatable that both sides of the discussion are likely to be morally outraged.

[Piggywaspushed]

Why does someone always come on these threads saying 'what about Corbyn et al'

This thread is about Toby Young.

I am sure there are many other dubious people in politics and many many fine ones, too.

The point is Toby Young's views were widely known and promoting him to a post about freedom of speech suggest at least tacit approval, at worst endorsement, of his views (or, OK, his right to express those views whilst in public office)

[Piggywaspushed]

Oh and gave him the power to allow, and encourage, others to express similar or equally odious views at universities. And to take away the power from those seeking to prevent this.

[noblegiraffe]

If you are desperate to label people based on who they attended conferences with, then why focus on someone who has already stepped down?

Faith it’s not just about who is at the conferences, it’s also about what was presented at them. He wasn’t simply innocently in the same room as a neo-Nazi, they were discussing eugenics.

And he hasn’t, as far as I’m aware, stepped down as director of the New Schools Network, which is a charity mostly funded by the DfE. This man is responsible for helping people set up new schools. He has himself set up schools.

That’s why I’m focusing on him and not sodding Corbyn. Do you think it’s acceptable for someone heavily involved in state education to be attending these events?

[Piggywaspushed]

Just one thing I would quibble over noble : I would never myself see Free schools as 'state education' in my definition fo the word. Hence, they can do what they like, employ who they like and, in theory teach what and whom they like (although Ofsted hopefully would take a dim view ). Sigh.

[Peregrina]

Free Schools are certainly state funded - even though they appear to break all the rules that Local Authority schools have to put up with.

[Marymaymay]

Toby Young’s Free School is apparently in a terrible state and is subject to regular staff training from staff at other schools to try and bring them up to scratch.

Those in the know say it is a disaster waiting to happen and is only being held together by the skills of those from other schools who have been parachuted in.

Maybe knowing ‘how to make friends and influence people’ just ain’t enough.