URGENT! Government education proposals: you seriously won't BELIEVE number 14!

[noblegiraffe]

Click-bait title, sorry!

But today's really the last day to tell the government their plans for grammar and faith schools stink contribute to the government consultation 'Schools that work for everyone' (except poor kids, those with SEN, the less academic and atheists)

Consultation document:
consult.education.gov.uk/school-frameworks/schools-that-work-for-everyone/supporting_documents/09.12.2016%20%20Publication%20%20Schools%20that%20work%20for%20everyone.pdf

Online Survey:
consult.education.gov.uk/school-frameworks/schools-that-work-for-everyone/

It's a really long document with lots of confusing questions but they will have to record all responses as there will definitely be a FOI request put in to find out the results. Even if you just head straight for the grammar section and say that you are against the creation of more secondary moderns, please just fill out that bit and leave the rest blank. Ignore the questions and write what you want to. Oh, and if you can point out that Northern Ireland which is a selective system did worse than England in the PISA results, that would probably annoy them

Unless you are in favour of the proposals in which case the consultation ended yesterday

[FrostyLeaves]

My comprehensive did not produce any doctors or lawyers only a handful went on to any university course. My sister went early enough to be in the grammar and she has some school friends who had very good careers. Today in the same area schools don't produce those with the A levels for competitive courses. It is a shame for kids with academic potential at age 11. It's not easy to self motivate against wider social (classroom) norms in your teenage years.

[BroomstickOfLove]

I live in a fully comprehensive area. My children are still primary school aged, but my friends' children from a variety of local comprehensives have gone to Oxford (x2), Edinburgh, Leeds, SOAS, two U.S. Universities, but I can't remember which ones, one Scottish university to study medicine, one to Manchester, one course in music tech at the local college, and one to Leeds Met. That's the complete destination list of everyone I know who has children in the appropriate age group. They are in no way suffering by not having access to a grammar school.

[hellsbells99]

Rednails, you are talking rubbish

[hellsbells99]

And yes, we live in a comp school only area

[TalkinPeace]

rednails
Grammar schools only improve the results of the brightest kids by 1/3 of a grade
while harming the results of the kids at the other schools

out of DD's comp year group the kids are at ....
LSE, Leeds, Warwick, Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, York, Exeter, Bath, Bristol, you name it
many are doing medicine, core sciences, law

segregated schools are bad for education

[eddiemairswife]

And a lot of the pressure to introduce comprehensive schools in the late 1950s came from parents whose children had failed the 11+, and who wanted them to be able to carry on at school past the age of 15.

[Fourmantent]

Completed the consultation.

Nobody is campaigning to bring back the sec mods and I will fight to prevent our lovely comp from becoming one. I think we had around 20% getting 8 or more Grade A/A grades - no need whatsoever to put them in a separate school. They are part of the school community, along with everyone else. There will have been others who got only one, two or three A/As who will have been equally competent (if not better) in these subjects - no need to take away the rest of the top set from them and leave them without other high ability students just because they are not strong across the board.

[PiqueABoo]

if you can point out that Northern Ireland which is a selective system did worse than England in the PISA results, that would probably annoy them

Which is interesting because NI did much better in junior TIMSS and although they didn't do the senior one, they have significantly better GCSE stats than England. Which metric are we supposed to care about most?

--

If my DD's comp is representative, I don't think they'd miss the top 5% or so because they're marking a lot of time in top sets where lessons are taught for the pace of the class majority who are a fair bit slower.

We have curriculum in sync across all sets in some subjects e.g. every English set is 'studying' the same extracts or very short novels at the same time. Lower sets watch more TV and get told what to think, top sets 'discuss' more and then get told what to think etc. If they didn't do that it would be difficult for a child to move up a set, but constraining the pace of the higher sets clearly defeats some of the point of sets.

[PiqueABoo]

I think we had around 20% getting 8 or more Grade A*/A grades

It must be nice to win the postcode lottery. Our comp is still getting to grips with the iea of A/A* after long focus on D/C and dodgy GCSE equivalents.

[Hassled]

Many thanks for alerting me to this - have completed it.

[noblegiraffe]

Thanks to those who have completed it! Even if the government ignores the results they won't be able to hide them.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

All done! Agree it's worth recording the responses.

[frikadela01]

Blatantly obvious the survey was designed to out people off filling it out.

I once read a really interesting article that said in some areas of the country, particularly areas that are heavily oversubscribed, we actually have a de-facto private education system since house prices around the highest performing schools price out everyone but the highest earners. It was a very interesting read. I wish I could remember where I read it.

[MumTryingHerBest]

PiqueABoo Sun 11-Dec-16 22:20:06 It must be nice to win the postcode lottery.

Opening a Grammar School offering 180 places in a 20 mile catchment will do nothing to stop the "postcode lottery".

[troutsprout]

That survey was so obviously designed to make you give up and not bother submitting results

[CecilyP]

You're right, troutsprout, and its certainly the oddest survey I've ever seen. Most surveys want to find your opinion; this one gives their opinion and not only asks the questions based on the assumption you totally agree with it, but also expects you to come up with ideas for implementation.

Nobel, today is actually the last day for submission, but I can't get your consultation document to open (dont know if its just me) and many of questions are meaingless without it.

[noblegiraffe]

consult.education.gov.uk/school-frameworks/schools-that-work-for-everyone/supporting_documents/SCHOOLS%20THAT%20WORK%20FOR%20EVERYONE%20%20FINAL.PDF try this link

I know today's the actual day but I figured everyone would be too busy today!

[PiqueABoo]

Opening a Grammar School offering 180 places in a 20 mile catchment will do nothing to stop the "postcode lottery".

Probably not. My point is that someone's specific local comp being good/shiny really isn't useful as an argument when we're talking about the national picture. Whatever anyone thinks of Ofsted/Wilshaw, they didn't keep banging on about 'most able' because everything was fine & dandy for the majority of them throughout the land. Back in June he was still talking of "a bleak picture of under-achievement and unfulfilled potential".

[DeepanKrispanEven]

Which no. 14, OP? There seem to be more than one.

[MumTryingHerBest]

PiqueABoo is there any evidence to suggest that Grammar schools are fulfilling the potential of the "most able"?

Without a doubt top line results look good for Grammar schools, however, they don't give a complete picture.

[noblegiraffe]

deepan sorry, I made that up to get people to click on the link

[CecilyP]

Thanks Nobel, worked this time.

[DeepanKrispanEven]

There are some extraordinary "Have you stopped beating your wife" type questions in there. For instance: "How can we best ensure that the benefits of existing selective schools are brought to bear on local non-selective schools?" Do you think we can answer "What benefits?"

[noblegiraffe]

My response included the words 'nonsensical' 'bizarre' and 'appalling', I guess 'what benefits?' Is a fair question.

The DfE promised to read all responses.

[PausingFlatly]

Deepan, the assumptions are amazing, aren't they?