Private primary going to state secondary, should we bother with SATS?

[Threeschools]

How important is it to do SATS? DD's private primary school don't do them, will she be penalised in terms of settings when/if moving to state secondary? Should I find out if she can sit them somewhere else? 2 sets of parents got very annoyed because their DCs were put in middle sets when apparently they belonged to the top sets, and they had to "fight" with the school to get this rectified. Are these settings set in stone so to speak?

[RaingodswithZippos]

Private schools have to opt in to SATs, should they wish to take part, they don't automatically get sent the papers. It's unlikely that the tests will be moved from their current time of year either as they are cyclical at DfE, that would require a massive change of operational model to enable the tests to be moved to a different time of year.

[Threeschools]

I think it is possible, apparently the primary private school can ask for some children to sit them if the parents wish so. I would think a prep school without its own secondary would be more obliging in trying to organise it since all the kids would be leaving anyway.

[SaltyMyDear]

It's not possible to sit them privately!

[bojorojo]

IT has taken the government a while to realise that constantly weighing a pig does not fatten it!

Don't bother with Sats. Certainly don't get a tutor for them! If your child is roughly following the new national curriculum, the independent school will send a report to the secondary with assessment data. The secondary will do their own tests. Sats were never done at my DDs old prep school and quite a few left at 11 for the grammar schools. No problems and the secondary schools cope.

It was never the case that Sats were just for school performance. They did actually tell the parents something! School performance is now measured by progress the children make more than attainment so this is why secondary schools like Sats data. However, they always think the results are too high which means their progress data is not so good!

[Threeschools]

Yes, that's great news

[AllPowerfulLizardPerson]

Requirement for SATS sits in year 7 has been abandoned

[[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2760057-primary-assessment-response]]

[mouldycheesefan]

Yes but more than 40% of children don't get 5 decent GCSEs. So presumably many of those are the same children who are not secondary ready. The children who are not performing well academically at age 11 correlates with the number who don't get decent GCSEs. It's just before they were not assesses and classified as not ready at 11. Now they are.

[Undersmile]

No secondary school is going to require that a child arrives with a KS2 result. There are plenty of children arriving from abroad with no KS2 SATS. The government already makes provision to measure their progress after KS4 is completed, they don't need to have KS2 assessments. (Along with those that were HEd or in independent sector).

No school worth it's salt would automatically put a child without KS2 assessments into the groups with those that did not achieve secondary ready status. They will do a baseline assessment on incoming children.

[AtiaoftheJulii]

But where would your child go to take SATs? Will any privately or home educated child just be able to turn up at their local state primary school and sit them? There are definitely going to be issues with this policy!

My kids were home educated for their primary years (and somewhat beyond for one). So no SATs results. The two grammar schools didn't care, made up their own targets from day 1. The comprehensive was rather confused, and the two dc there had no ks3 targets for the first year until the school came up with some.

One dc has left the comp now, and apparently there was some amused frustration that they couldn't use her achievements as part of their value added calculations because of course she had no ks2 SATs

[anon123456]

The ridiculous part is all children are required to "pass" even those with Sen. Madness.

I accept there are those in the SEN band that will never be able to pass but you must concede that there are are also some in that category, with the requisite support, that could pass.

Surly if we 'permit' some children to be labelled as 'wont be able to pass', then maximum effort won't be exercised to achieve that pass. Which is the culture of low expectations. Isn't it better to reach for the stars and the worse that can happen is you only reach the moon? Isn't that what we should teach children?

[LetitiaCropleysCookbook]

Not sure how they could sit earlier than October of year 6 (which is when applications go in) or even the May when they're currently sat.

I suppose I was thinking more in terms of allocation of places being delayed till after SATs. I seem to remember back in the '70s, not knowing which school I was going to till after the 11+ results, which I think was in the summer term of the last year of primary, i.e. just before leaving.

[anon123456]

Its possible then that if you dont have the SATs done your DC will be put in the group with other children who took the tests but failed. Y7 would be spent learning at the lowest level and you would miss out on the 'normal' Y7 curriculum. Then the knock on affect for Y8-11

If the resits are going ahead and it looks like they are why wouldn't a school make everyone without a pass take them. Otherwise they have no data for their progress 8 and the schools ranking with be downgraded a bit.

Why take the risk, surly a bright private school kid could wizz through the SATs with minimal tutoring.

[NicknameUsed]

If you know which secondary schools you are considering why don't you ask them if your daughter needs to do SATS?

[LetitiaCropleysCookbook]

No because they're sat after school places have been allocated.

Presumably that could change, if the powers-that- be think it's convenient!

[LetitiaCropleysCookbook]

it's starting next year. The results come back and under a certain level they are labelled "not ready for secondary" - damning, isn't it?

That's so insidious, Cauliflower! I didn't know that. Are SATs going to become the new 11+, to coincide with the reintroduction of Grammar schools?

[SpecialStains]

Don't make your child do unnecessary tests. You could get the prep school teacher write a letter discussing your dcs ability to help the next school with streaming. Just let your dc enjoy their last year of primary.

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

From what I can remember, about 40% of the country were "not secondary ready" this summer.

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

Letitia - that's correct but it's starting next year. The results come back and under a certain level they are labelled "not ready for secondary" - damning, isn't it?
If that happens then they have to retake their SATS exam in year 7. Nobody has come up with the issue that they will then miss out on the year 7 curriculum and be forever behind. And the secondary school curriculum is absolutely packed. I'm not sure how many times they have to retake, or if it is just once.

[CauliflowerSqueeze]

PettsWood but she did pass the grammar school test, so the band of ability she is in will be narrower.

Have you asked them how they are setting her targets? The school can measure progress from the baseline tests they do, but the government targets for her are ks2-ks4, and those are what the school has to meet. I'd ask them.

[NicknameUsed]

At DD's school they used the SATS results to track progress and for GCSE predictions. I expect this will have changed now as she is 16.