Nikki out, Justine in

[bojorojo]

Will the new Government be more supportive of new grammar schools and change the law to allow new stand-alone ones? Theresa May wants one in her constituency and all the anti grammar school brigade have gone: Gove, Morgan, Cameron and Osborne. The BBC is reporting this could be on the agenda.

[OhTheRoses]

Yes, the two years dd spent at a London comp were disastrous due to the continuous disruption, both low and high level which the majority were expected to put up with.

At least five or six of the cohort should have been permanently excluded. There needs to be far more resource plugged into this group.

[calamityjam]

As a parent of a child who really struggles academically, I think there should be more options for children to study vocational subjects at GCSE level. At the moment he is studying 7 GCSEs most of which he doesn't stand a chance of passing. Luckily he also gets the opportunity to attend the local college for one morning and one afternoon each week, to study BTEC engineering, which is equivalent to 3 GCSEs. He is doing very well at this and is achieving distinctions which is boosting his self esteem immensely. However, I believe that this option is being either removed completely or vastly reduced. I really believe that there should be more on offer for children who are less academic, whether that be a two tiered system or greater choice at level 2.

[Margrethe]

If comps are intended to fulfil the potential of all, it is essential their curriculums reflect a grammar offer for those able to engage with an academic education.

Very true OhtheRoses.

[TaIkinPeace]

A comp SHOULD if properly funded
have at least five levels

• highly academic students aiming directly for Top200 Universities and beyond
  
• bright students aiming for mid level and Russell Group universities
  
• kids who may well go to university or directly into professional training
  
• kids who will leave education at 18 and go into work
  
• kids for whom the ebacc is a sick joke but who have technical and manual skills that we otherwise have to import
  

most of the country manages it just fine without selective schools
they just need more than £4000 per head to do it with

[OhTheRoses]

But to roll that out Talkin the schools have to be huge and I think that's where the plot and individuals get lost completely. IMO it is better to deliver that in smaller schools and separately.

[Peregrina]

Frustratingly, neither Labour nor Tory have grasped the nettle about providing good quality vocational education. I am sure I have said this before, there have been a number of good reports commissioned about this, but they always get rejected because the focus is always on the 'gold standard' of A levels. On the whole we do OK for our academic children, but we have a long tail of underachievement of the rest.

[TaIkinPeace]

ohtheroses
define huge?
1300 Eton
1200 most of the comps in the country

[OhTheRoses]

I think that's huge. My school was three form entry, the DC's London Independents four forms. I think that's big enough.

[OhTheRoses]

I agree with Peregrina

[MangoMoon]

A lot of smaller, targeted schools will not only cost more to run, but also trap kids into a progression steam identified for them too early on in their education.

A good comp should be able to cater for all streams accordingly, with scope to move up & down as required.

Partnership with a local technical college is a good way of getting the best outcomes for the less academic pupils.
(Basically like TalkinPeace already outlined).

[Peregrina]

Partnership with a local technical college is a good way of getting the best outcomes for the less academic pupils.

A good thing about this is that it doesn't kick in until 14, unlike the GS/Sec Mod divide where the selection is done and dusted at 10, with OK a very small handful allowed to move at 12/13.

[calamityjam]

As we have now moved into compulsory education for children up to 18, we should be looking at how we structure our schools. Where i live there aren't any local sixth forms, therefore all children progress on to the 2 local colleges. One catholic and one state. If schools were structured in a way that years 10-13 were taught as high school, this is where the two or three tiered system could be more effective. This would mean that all children could follow the same curriculum until taking options at the end of year 9, then choosing to attend a high school that met their academic needs. This would allow for progression up until the age of 14/15 which gives schools plenty of time to assess their children's academic level.

[TaIkinPeace]

ohtheroses
independent schools charge fees that give them four or five times the resources of state schools.
they can thus afford to run a GCSE class of 10 pupils - unimaginable in a state school.

Here in Hampshire the state schools go to 16 and then ALL the kids go to college for years 12 and 13
the colleges range from

• Sparsholt : world renowned countryside / farming / equestrian courses
  
• City Technical : 100% employment out of their boat building courses
  
• Totton College : the place to go if you want to be a mechanic
  
• Peter Symonds : 2000 pupils per year of whom around 800 go to Russell Group Unis
  

but that specialisation is at 16, and the choices are made by the kids.

[TeenAndTween]

My DCs use the competitor comp to Talkins . It really doesn't seem huge at all, despite coming from single form entry not full primary.

The school doesn't seem large, and splitting the year group, strong pastoral care etc enables them not to be 'lost' in the early years. When they get to GCSEs there are wide range flexible options because the 250 or so per year provides it.

Good comps work for late developers and those from less good primaries, in a way in which grammars can't.

[Stickerrocks]

So the majority view here then is that we should model the state,secondary system on the Hants comps we use. Sorted.

[TeenAndTween]

But I would put better pastoral care into the Hants 6th forms.
A better safety net for those pupils that need it.

[Peregrina]

So the majority view here then is that we should model the state,secondary system on the Hants comps we use. Sorted.

No, but we should be looking to good LAs to see what it is that they are doing and to see how and whether it can be reproduced elsewhere, rather than resurrect a model which was failing 40 years ago.

[TaIkinPeace]

DH works in state and private schools in every county in the country.
Non selective is best (saves the authorities lots of admin and parents lots of stress)
Primary/ secondary is better than lower / middle / upper

6th form works well in this part of Hampshire. Less well down Pompey way.
But having been in a tiny Private 6th, the deal my kids get at Symonds is much better academically and socially.

[Stickerrocks]

Teen as long as I can get mine into Peter Symonds please.

[TaIkinPeace]

sticker
Symonds is a marmite place and pretty ruthless at kicking kids out
BUT
The variety of colleges is the real bonus round here
Barton gets fab results from many kids
Tauntons is improving
For non academic, City, Eastleigh, Totton all have excellent employment outcomes - which is the aim

[Stickerrocks]

Heart already set on PS because of the number of Harlequins/ England rugby players they produce!

[TaIkinPeace]

Ah yes. DS has his rugby trial booked

[Thethingswedoforlove]

Talkin peace what do you consider to be so bad about teachfirst ?

[Lurkedforever1]

Whilst I don't think grammars and secondary moderns are the ideal, in practice a comprehensive area is often no different. Except instead of grammars you get true comprehensives and comprehensives that are secondary moderns in all but name. Make every school a genuine comprehensive, which also meets the needs of the most able, rather than ignoring them as a minority, and then we can all hold the comprehensive model as the ideal. It currently isn't. And enough non mainstream for the dc that need them.

Personally I think there is an argument for the top 1/2% needing something different. But at the least I would hope that some form of inter school/ college outreach could be used to provide for able dc in fully comprehensive areas, who nevertheless receive secondary modern education, in the same way it is used for lower achievers.

People always object to calling a school a secondary modern, and deciding their future on the outcome of an exam at 10/11. But calling them all comprehensives, and then doing the same based on postcode and religion is exactly the same.

I just hope she is willing to see through all the blather that the current comprehensive system is in any way fair, and do something about it.

[OhTheRoses]

Talkin had we lived in Hampshire we might have considered state schools (well we did for DD and it was gift wrapped shite) but we didn't, we lived in London. No comparison.

We had years of paying £35,000 pa for two London day schools. And we paid the £6,500 (or thereabouts) for each child in spades.

I don't quite see the unfairness as you do having paid twice.