Should I send my kid to a grammar school

[Mamahen999]

Ds1 is really bright high 11 plus score . Grammar would involve a bus journey but not too bad. I'm rural so would take a little planning. Family and friends are really against this. In fact I'm feeling quite upset at the negativity about it. Local comp was in educ dept intervention as a failing school until last couple years. Turning round and kids seem to love it but falling intake. As a kid I was offered a grammar place but the family decided I shouldn't go as bright kids do well anywhere. I was bullied year 8 and 9 but came into my own and was very very happy at comp. I got middling GCSEs but got notes from grammar friends and went to technical college at night to get me the excellent a levels I needed for the high level uni course I wanted. I succeeded academically in spite of the school but the life lessons in schooling with diverse pupils was invaluable . Family Nd friends are so negative via they all went comp. none of my family went to grammar. They keep saying he'll do well anywhere but I remember vividly the underachievement of boys. Even I had to hide the fact I was studying . it wasn't cool. Yet the grammar school is made up entirely of middle class parents ( my education has made me one too) sending ds1 to grammar is saying to them all I don't agree with your choices but my bright boy is telling me mum I'll have more opportunities there. Maybe he's the bright one . I dunno but I cannot believe the negativity and hostility . Views folks.

[BertrandRussell]

Have you done a search for phrases such as "the scrotes at the local comp"?

To be fair I only read that once. I only read "I know what goes on in comps " once too. Was enough, though. How about "throwing him to the lions" "eaten alive" "will be bullied for being a nerd" "chavs" "pyjama wearing" "chair throwing"

And how about the general assumption that if you don't go to grammar school or to private school you will be spending your days with disruptive, probably violent bullies with low aspirations who will drag your child down to their level?

[Blu]

Those who support grammars often cite the behaviour and work ethic as a benefit. Alongside the many grammar applicants who are not tutored (like the OP of this thread and Bert's ) there are numerous threads and other forums which are about tutoring from an early age, parents seeking tutors , being told the best tutors are booked up from Yr4, children doing an extra half hour of 11+ prep every night and an hour on weekend days and more .

This is self selective of children who will sit down and do this intensive extra work.

That is the basis of my comment.

ToughAs, and Marnia, I have no personal stake in grammar schools, I sympathise with individual parents who choose them as the best available option and you will see that I have advised the OP of this thread to use the grammar school opportunity in her circumstances.

My view on the school system is based on where I believe our focus as a country should be, which is improving and extending every person's access to a good comp which looks after the needs of all children. I 'bang a drum', aka lay out my reasons for this, on the grammar schools in Wales thread.

[BertrandRussell]

"t starts with the comments about little Jocasta not being able to mix with the rough girls,the only bullying goes on in private prep schools, private school kids are thick and in drugs. You get the picture."

how many times are the "little Jocasta" comments in response to the prevalent assumptions such as those I outlined in my post? And I can't believe anyone said that bullying only ever happens in preschools! I have read people saying it doesn't happen there though which is pretty daft! And are you saying there are no drugs in private schools? The would be daft too...........

[Badbadbunny]

Alongside the many grammar applicants who are not tutored (like the OP of this thread and Bert's ) there are numerous threads and other forums which are about tutoring from an early age, parents seeking tutors , being told the best tutors are booked up from Yr4, children doing an extra half hour of 11+ prep every night and an hour on weekend days and more .

The intensive tutoring is a an unintended consequence of there being too few good schools and is pretty much limited to the relatively small number of super-selectives. People use it to argue against grammars, when in reality, it's an argument that there should be more grammars or other good schools. In those areas, demand is far higher than supply meaning the "best" kids are selected so intensive tutoring is needed and the bright but untutored kids don't stand a chance. Out in the rest of the country, where things are more normal, the grammars aren't so much over-subscribed so bright kids can get a place without tutoring, just like it used to be in the 1960s when every town had a grammar and much higher proportions of kids went to them (a third in our town so hardly elitist!). People really can't use the intensive tutoring for super selectives as grounds for arguing against all grammar schools, because most aren't like that!

[LabradorMama]

Grammar.

I went to a grammar and my family were all delighted and proud of me for passing the 11+

All except my maternal grandparents and a couple of aunts on that side. They lived on a sink estate, none of them worked and they took the piss out of my 'posh school' and said I would think I was better than them. I was 11!

I've been NC ever since.

It amazes me how family could be anything but pleased and encouraging over the offer of a grammar school place. It's an achievement and your DS should be proud of himself. If he likes the look of the school and wants to go there then it's a no brainer IMO

[jonesthegirl]

However, despite all this 'Who said what stuff'. The fact is Comprehensive schools, much like any secondary schools are failing working class children .
This is particularly evident with white working class children.

This is a real statistic because over 85% of children in England/Wales are educated in comprehensive schools. It would be interesting to compare outcomes of working class children educated in comprehensives with the same group educated in 'modern' schools.

[BertrandRussell]

"Are you saying that there are no drugs in comps Beetrand?!
Really, come on! You have said yourself on many threads that the worst case of bullying that you know is in a prep school, you say it all the time.
Jocasta and Tarquin were used for years on here, just nasty."

Of course I'm not. There are drugs in every school

And yes, the worse case of bullying I have ever come across was in a well known London prep and followed the child to public school. That does not mean that I think bullying only happens in private schools. That would be a deeply foolish thing to say. As foolish as people who say they think there is no bullying in private schools.

I am a little gobsmacked at the reference to something I said 8 years ago. However, if you link to the thread, I will certainly apologise if I said anything offensive.

[BertrandRussell]

I'm really sorry, toughasoldboots- if I said something that upset you. But without having context, or knowing what was said to me, or what was happening in the debate at the time I honestly don't know what else I can do. You already appear to have misremembered my words twice (I have never said that bullying only happens in private schools, or that there are no drugs in comprehensives). I do have to say that making points from ancient threads and not being prepared to back them up does not strike me as being particularly good form.

[BertrandRussell]

"It starts with the comments about little Jocasta not being able to mix with the rough girls,the only bullying goes on in private prep schools private school kids are thick and in drugs. You get the picture.
Really quite unpleasant, all of it."

[BertrandRussell]

"Are you saying that there are no drugs in comps Beetrand?"

[BertrandRussell]

"No, the classic if you don't link it it never happened "

No, the classic "I don't know how to respond to something I can't remember- but happy to respond if you show me what I said"

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

Toughas, you seem to be just engaging in a big grudge fest rather than discussing the issue, tbh.

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

It is a 13 year old one though! I'm sorry your daughter was compared to people called Jocasta, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't seem like the worst thing anyone could say! I'm not going to wait 13 years and then post angrily to the people on here who've said insulting things about children who have criticised comprehensive schools and the children who go to them!