Is it me, or is the French GCSE a complete waste of time?

[dollybird]

So DS is in year 9 fast-tracking his French GCSE and is sitting his speaking and writing exams this week. For the speaking he has been given four questions and has practiced his answers until he knows them off by heart, and similar for the writing, they have memorised what they are going to write and just write it in the exam (and are given a list of key words and allowed to have a dictionary)!

Is this really all that it takes to get a language GCSE (he's predicted a B)? I got a B 20+ years ago, and the speaking was having a conversation with the teacher, where you knew you would be asked about family/hobbies etc but you didn't know exactly what would be asked and a conversation would follow on from your answers. And similar with the writing, we didn't know exactly what we would have to write about. It seems to me it is more of a memory test than actually learning the language, and for those wanting to go onto A-level, I imagine leap would be absolutely huge.

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

DD's prepared German assessment was all about how she was concerned for her parents as her mother never eats vegetables and her father eats nothing but sugar.... Helpful!

[Kennington]

Yes dumbed down massively
I helped out someone's kids and they got an A star
Couldn't speak French at all and it was much less intensive that 25 years ago when I studied it. The grammar was lighter. Not sure why they would make this change. Doesn't seem worth it. It certainly is no preparation for A levels.

[cressetmama]

It is definitely much easier but as DS is dyslexic, and okay orally, it meant that he achieved the magic C with two hours of tutoring per week, and no lessons despite hardly being able to write a sentence. (Change of school/inflexible curriculum).

[MyLifeisaboxofwormgears]

DD started the French A level syllabus at 11 - her school is very advanced in French. she has an old style teacher who read the GCSE syllabus and announced "it's utter rubbish" and has taught them the language as a spoken language and full written essays.
A post A level student came in to help teach the class a while back - they corrected her verbs for her...

[Bobotybobjob]

My eldest is in year 8 and has been conjugating verbs since year 7 and has been tested several times on them and the rules, just as I was. I dint understand why children are put in fur a GCSE in year 9 where they are predicted a B when they could take it in year 11, with 2 more years teaching and get an A*.

[Peregrina]

I agree with Bertrand about the old O level. We could conjugate verbs to our hearts content but after 5 years of learning French, could we ask for a cup of coffee in a cafe, or understand the answer if we had asked directions? No.

On the other hand though, I think things went too far the other way. I did a language evening class a few years ago, and some of the young people could speak quite well, but didn't understand the first thing about grammar i.e. 'what is a definite article, what is a verb?' and worst of all, they didn't want to know either.

[HSMMaCM]

I'm so glad DD's teacher was more interested in actually teaching them French. She got a C, but attended French speaking breakfast lessons and spoke to actual French people, who spent a lot of time in the school, had to buy her own lunch in French markets (ok she got buttet instead of cheese).

I'd far rather she did all that than get an A for simply remembering something meaningless. Brave of her teacher to oppose the system though.

[dollybird]

In DS's school, the top five groups are all fast-tracking as long as they did well enough in their first trial assessments. I don't think he finds it 'easy' per se, as he has nothing to compare it to. I've just told him what I did in my own language GCSE's. TBH I think he'll just be glad to get it done then forget about it, hence it being a waste of time, and that's a shame. Although my DB moans that he did five years of French and never uses it and never intends to go to France, so i suppose for some (lots?) of people 3 years is better than 5 (although my DC did very minimal French at school since year R).

[BertrandRussell]

I would be very cross indeed if a child of mine was "fast tracked" to a B.........

[hanahsaunt]

It does seem as though it is rather dependent on the school and / or the teachers. Ds1 is fast tracking French at GCSE and is on course for an A*. His grammatical knowledge of all 3 MFLs that he is doing (German and Spanish as well as French) is phenomenal and enjoys nothing more than discussing the finer points of grammar with his grandfather who is a retired head of MFL. He is very confident about conversing when we go to France and is encouraged by staff to read newspapers, comics etc across the languages to increase vocab etc. So whilst not wholly enamoured with the GCSE per se, it doesn't mean that children aren't being taught useful language skills.

[dollybird]

I totally agree BertrandRussell. I don't agree with taking GCSE's early if they could do better taking them when they're supposed to. My boss said that some kids in his DC's primary school in year 6 took GCSE maths and got B's and I just thought 'so what are they going to do now, keep taking it till they get an A* or move onto A-level at age 11

[chicaguapa]

DD is doing Spanish and French in Y9 and is a very talented linguistic (according to her teachers).

Her speaking assessments consist of memorising a written passage which she has written and had marked. This stresses her out as she doesn't have a good memory and I have tried getting her to just remember the gist of it and fill in the gaps with her knowledge, the same way as when she wrote it in the first place. But she's convinced that's not what they are supposed to be doing.

I've spoken to the head of MFL at the school and she says they still don't know what her GCSEs are going to be like yet and to not stress about it too much. So maybe they're not on AQA?

[Bobotybobjob]

Bertrand, I agree. If my child gets a B in year 11 because that's the best he's capable of that's fine and I will be delighted but I would be absolutely furious with the school for putting him for a GCSE 2 years early with a prediction of a B because that suggests to me that he's not actually ready to do it and needs the extra time to get the best grade he's capable of.

[Millymollymama]

As my DD has a degree in French and Italian I can assure you linguists need a good memory! They also need good teachers who teach beyond the subject content at GCSE. No, MFL it is not vocational and at the highest level, speaking and translation are only part of the marks for the degree. DD is unlikely to use her languages in her chosen career. MFL at the best universities is an academic discipline and so it should be. Try telling Oxford professors that it is purely vocational! It is no different from Greek or Latin in that respect.

Given the huge number of posters on MN who say their children cannot do MFL, then it must be pretty difficult for lots of children and this is borne out by the reducing number of people taking A levels in an MFL. On the better degree courses, the content is academic, and not particularly vocational so the need to research in your chosen language and the ability to write essays is vital. The choice of destination for the year abroad tends to be vocational or academic in content.

There are very many independently educated children doing MFL because lots of these schools teach more imaginatively. They will help children who are talented linguists. My DD did not do a word of French before she was 11 and did Italian from Y8. Mostly she had brilliant teachers. GCSE or indeed O level are not sufficient for sustained conversations unless you have had the chance for sustained practice with MFL speaking relatives or other native speakers. My DD had lots of conversation practice at school and lots of grammar in preparation for A level. No useful relatives, sadly! Where there is a culture (parents and schools) that languages do not matter, it will be a self fulfilling prophecy!

[swingofthings]

CA are ridiculous, but the actual exam demands a bit more than this. DD just did her mock exams and although I don't think they are that difficult, it still requires quite a bit more than what you describe. It is easy to get an A at the CA, not as easy at the actual exam.

[IguanaTail]

Majaso - for controlled assessments you can either do the prep entirely in school or entirely at home. It's swings and roundabouts. At home you can spend longer but you can also access google translate and that can totally muck things up. At school the teacher can be sure it's being prepared properly.

You can re-do assessments but there are guidelines. For a speaking assessment you have to change a bullet point. For a writing one you have to change the focus but you can keep the same topic. It is absolutely not allowed to get them to re-do the same one.


chica - GCSE French AQA has just had its exams accepted... It's true nobody really has a clue about it but it's pretty similar content to the previous one. There's nothing exciting. Lots of discussion about our thoughts on the environment etc. The translation element, heralded to be such a massive part, is worth 12 marks out of 60 (one fifth...).

[dottycat123]

Many years ago I was on holiday in France,the summer I had taken my o levels. I was incorrectly accused of shop lifting a ring (I had in fact purchased it a few days earlier from the shop) I was able to engage in a heated discussion with the shop keeper in French and protest my innocence,explaining how I had been in the shop a few days earlier. Ds2 in year 10 is considered good at French yet I can still speak it better than he can 35 years after my O level and I only passed with a C grade!

[earsarehurting]

OP - are you sure you want to fast track him unless he is predicted an A? If he knows all that you have said, he should hopefully be in line for that A though? good luck!
As for the contents of the test - it is rather sad reading to be honest - my DS was told in his Y6 French oral that he was at GSCE level for an A, which shocked me. Yes, he has a flair for languages, but he has been in France the grand total of two times and his knowledge is less than basic... Lets hope for some better challenges with the new system!

[IguanaTail]

I hold out zero hope. The cynic in me thinks that the first year the results across the board will be very poor to show how "tough" they are. Then there will be slight year on year increases, to show how the children and their dastardly, skiving (and probably by then non-existent) teachers are starting to improve standards.