GCSE options / is Business Studies viewed as a 'soft' / easy subject or well respected these days?

[Boysandme]

DS1 has to pick options soon for his GCSE subjects.

I know some subjects are viewed as soft subjects and also that business studies has been up and down as to how well respected it is.

Anyone know what the current thinking is?

Thanks

[MassaAttack]

It might be hard to think of a course that might need it, but having looked at the syllabus I can see how useful it could be in the workplace, particularly for a young person who hasn't had the chance to pick up basic finance skills on the job.

[cricketballs]

Word Business Studies is of value, is relevant and is worth studying (unless you know better than Oxbridge admissions?) Every GCSE is worth studying if the student wants to complete the course.

Agree wholeheartedly with Molly regarding the snobbery shown not only on this thread but I find on MN in general regarding qualifications

[RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria]

Oxbridge don't teach business studies. I, on the other hand, have taught on MBA courses at a RG university, and on professional exam courses, and I am tangentially involved in recruitment policy for an international professional services network (and also for the profession itself). But if you don't want to believe me then that's fine. No skin off my nose.

[cricketballs]

Rabbit have you read the specifications?

[MassaAttack]

I can see Business Studies being pretty useful for any graduate. It might not get them on the course, or get them a job after graduation, but once they're working it would come into its own.

[cricketballs]

Oxbridge might not teach Business Studies, but they accept the qualifications (including BTEC Level 2)

[blueemerald]

GCSE subjects don't matter (unless they restrict your A level choices. Ie don't do maths, English, science, art and DT and expect to do physics, french and history for A level).

With regards to A level your subject choices are restricting. That is not snobbery, it is fact.

Google the Russell Group 'informed choices' publication, it is very... informative.

[mateysmum]

DS just got an Ain BS and is now doing economics for A level which I think is a natural progression. He is interested in the world of business and with 9 traditional subjects, yes BS was an easy extra A, but he found it interesting and certainly about practical real life issues.

TheFirst Classical Civilisation is very well regarded at GCSE and at A level and for some university courses it is a preferred A level. DS is doing it a A level and it loves it. He is considering doing something classics based at uni or maybe history, so CC is a useful adjunct to straight history at A level.

[RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria]

For the courses done at my kids schools? Yes. I also know kids studying it. Nobody is going to reject someone with a great grade for business studies GCSE because they did business studies GCSE. But it opens no doors. If it's a choice between e.g. business studies and history or business studies and computing, then history or computing will be more useful and more respected. doing business studies won't taint you. But it won't help, either. It just won't.

[RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria]

Massa - honestly, not really.

[MassaAttack]

It would be relevant to my area of work; budgeting, forecasting, basic economics? All good.

[RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria]

All of which are covered from scratch in professional exams.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

It isn't as respected as Economics at either A level or GCSE. It is waffley in comparison to Economics. Our students do not suffer when they start Economics having done neither at GCSE. I'd go for the Ebacc subjects in general - they're good wide ranging subjects.
The rightness or wrongness of the perception is somewhat irrelevant to the question. The point is that IS perceived to be soft.

[howtodrainyourflagon]

I never said music gcse was a soft option. Nor art. There's no snobbery: the op asked for honesty. A gcse is a gcse - they're all hard work but they're not all equally regarded or equally useful when it comes to a level preparation or university entrance.

[TheWordFactory]

cricket I am involved in Oxbridge admissions.

And of course a GCSE in Business Studies is not fatal, providing it is accompanied by plenty of academically rigorous GCSEs. But that does not mean that anyone rates it, or that it won't prove fatal if in tandem with other soft subjects.

My view is this. If a student has a burning desire to do it for GCSE, then why not? Ditto Law or Dance or Food Tech... But it is utterly wrong to lie about the academic value of such qualifications.

[SlowlorisIncognito]

Genuinely, though, for the vast majority of universities- to the extent they look at GCSEs at all- they look at grades achieved over subjects taken, and I think it is disingenuous to suggest that one softer subject at GCSE with a high grade in it will have any impact at all on someone's university application.

Not taking certain GCSEs can obviously close certain doors, but taking one, especially as one of 10 or 11 subjects is very unlikely to.

Realistically, most students who will chose 10 GCSE options this year will probably have room for maybe 2 softer subjects at a push. Also, a student is far more likely to not have a shot at a top university based on grades achieved rather than subjects taken at GCSE level.

As I understand it, a lot of universities (even Russel Group universities) just aren't that interested in the GCSEs you've taken.

It's silly to talk about facilitating subjects at GCSE, and it's worth remembering that lots of applicants get into top universities, having NOT taken 3 facilitating subjects at A-level. Unless it's written on the university or UCAS website, it's not a hard entry requirement, and shouldn't be treated as such.

[Boysandme]

Wow, I never expected this to be such a hot topic but am still reading with interest.

[RufusTheReindeer]

boys

It is interesting isn't it

Ds is taking two "what I call soft subjects", BS and citizenship

I wish he had taken triple science, he just didn't want to. And he had no interest in IT or a language which were the only two other vaguely academic subjects offered ( I am excluding music and drama because I think you should have a vague talent/desire)

I think part of the trouble is that not all schools offer the same subjects or the same amount if GCSEs, I look at threads where children are taking 12 plus subjects and look a bit [shocked]

[Lilymaid]

A couple of "soft" GCSEs with 8 or so "hard" GCSEs won't worry top universities. And Economics is not a "soft" A2 - well, not as far as Trinity College Cambridge and LSE are concerned (though some MNers no doubt know better).

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

Economics is well respected but interestingly not on the list of facilitating subjects! However, it's fourth most popular A level at the very successful school I teach in! (Maths, Chemistry, Biology beat it)

[TheFairyCaravan]

DS2 did Business Studies and got an A. I wouldn't say it was a soft subject. There was a lot of work involved, when his teacher went on ML, another shit one was brought in, they missed some work and it took ages for them to catch up. He's a a bright lad, he's not interested in going into business but is no good at Art, can't play an instrument, didn't want to do IT, DT, or Food Tech and his preferred choice didn't get enough pupils opting for it so he did BS.

It does annoy me when I read people saying "it's a soft subject" "GCSEs aren't worth the paper they're written on" (not on this thread) etc. Most of the time those people haven't seen their DC work their balls off constantly for the past 2/3/4 years to achieve their full potential. Can we not just give the young people the credit they deserve? Just for once?

[RufusTheReindeer]

thefairy

When I did o levels drama was seen as a soft subject...it wasn't and isn't, same with PE (well nowadays anyway)

I think BS is seen as a soft subject, doesn't mean that it isn't hard work

Ds1 has certainly worked hard on it! Hopefully has finished his controlled assessment and will get a good mark for it!!!!!!!

He finished his Citizenship CA today, hope that gets a good mark as well!!!!!!!

[skylark2]

"Can we not just give the young people the credit they deserve? Just for once?"

How is whether a subject is well respected or not related to whether or not a young person deserves credit for their work?

BS GCSE is not a well respected subject. Doesn't mean that a lot of DCs don't work very hard to get a good grade in it.

But I don't see the point in pretending to kids that it's useful in itself for higher academic study. "Not actively detrimental" is not the same as "actively useful" and is a million miles from "necessary", despite all the comments about how sometimes high flying kids study it. Sure they do. And sometimes they study PE, and sometimes they study Textiles...all are filler subjects which nobody is going to care whether you took or not provided you took the subjects they do care about and you have enough high enough grades overall.

(I'm a physics graduate who took O level woodwork, btw - no regrets at all. It was a soft option and opened zero doors for me. But I really enjoyed it.)

[summerends]

I would n't call BS or PE or the like 'filler subjects', just subjects that allow development of a certain ability or general knowledge together with associated useful skills. However I agree that they don't contribute directly to university study of more traditional academic subjects and might take up a subject slot that could be better used to widen academic interests.

[roguedad]

I think it was Alan Sugar who said that "you can't learn business practices out of a book." A child would be far better off learning another foreign language, while perhaps experimenting in the hols with actually trying to make some money. Or even at school - one Tommie Rose recently made about 14k running a black market tuck shop at school, and followed up with a fortune from a signed Lucozade bottle. This kind of thing is infinitely more impressive than a naff GCSE on a university application, and gives genuine insight into how the "real world" operates. I have to wonder how many business studies teachers have actually run a business successfully.

As well as more modern languages, There's a good case for injecting one or two allegedly less academic GCSEs into a profile, and several that promote real life skills perfectly relevant for business - drama for communication skills, photography for DIY creation of marketing materials, DT or Textiles for actually making things, maybe to sell. All of these offer real skills - not vacuous theorising, and I'd put them well above Business Studies, Psychology, Media whatever, PE and the like at GCSE. It's not about snobbery - it's about genuine usefulness.