I don't think private schools breed confidence ...

[CheesyWellingtons]

I keep reading on here, and hearing in life, that public schools breed confidence. I don't think it is anywhere near as simple as that.

Isn't what is happening at home so much more important? Isn't it that confident people who tend to do well with their careers and can therefore afford private education also have confident children due to the confident parents? Or that those with inherited money feel confident in life due to that, and then send their children privately? Surely so much of how our children feel about themselves is due to how we as their parents feel about ourselves.

I can think of so many people at my private school who were not confident.

I noticed when my kids went to private school all the kids I met had very good social skills and came across very well. Some were on bursaries so I don't think it was just socio-economic; some parents also were completely lacking in social skills or bloody mean and miserable. My Dad and other relations went to a very well known public school (boarding) and despite having very dysfunctional home lives always gave/give the impression they are very confident, articulate and in control. Maybe because they were away from home for extended periods, I don't know.

Obviously it is a bit of both but I think private schools do help it along. Students are taught social skills, how to speak to adults... My ds private is big on public speaking and my son thinks nothing of getting up in front of a room full of people and giving his opinion. I do not think there is a social situation that would faze him. My youngest ds is at a state school. Same family values, same behavior at home but he shows none of this, the school does not push it and I find it really annoying, I can only do so much at home. In some respects it is the way my older ds carries himself that makes me want to switch my younger one over so he can have the same grooming.

There are different kinds of confidence, OP. I would like to feel that my dcs gain an inner confidence through growing up in a secure family with parents who feel confident and good about themselves. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are going to be confident when e.g. speaking in public, unless they have actually been trained to do this. Which is more likely to happen at a private school.

And I suspect that a lot of this vaunted public school confidence is actually being comfortable around wealthy and powerful people-because that is a kind of confidence that will help you to get a job with wealthy and powerful people. The fact that the same person might feel shy and awkward around working class people is not seen as the same career drawback, so people tend to discount that.

'despite having very dysfunctional home lives always gave/give the impression they are very confident, articulate and in control' - but surely if they come from dysfunctional homes, they will be on the 'relationships' forum of mumsnet in ten years time complaining about a rich but abusive partner, despite being outwardly confident.

i do think they breed confidence as they have the time to put effort into the children to praise, find opportunities and work with the kids to develop their skills. Put effort into a child, confidence grows.

This is also true at home, but they are at school 30 plus hours a week.

'they have the time to put effort into the children to praise, find opportunities and work with the kids to develop their skills. Put effort into a child, confidence grows.'

Yes, that's precisely what my children's teachers have done...at state school. Please don't assume that all our children are left to mass ferally in a corner, occasionally being shouted at by a harrassed and under-paid peon.

What she said...l.

They are quite good at breeding arrogance I find.

I grew up in a deprived area went to an awful crappy school and mixed with people from similar backgrounds.

By the age of 19 I had moved to London and had quite a good job in the NHS. One of my colleagues was a placement student and had been educated at a posh girls school. We actually became friends but our backgrounds were worlds apart. She was very confident and was able to speak to senior managers and doctors with ease, I was a bumbling fool and didn't know how to talk to such important people. She had travelled the world and had a horse and played several instruments. My family holidays were spent in Blackpool and my only hobbies as a teenager involved drinking and hanging out with other hapless youths.

She was so determined and self-assured and convinced that she would succeed, she saw her job merely as a stepping stone and did turn her nose up at the organisation. I on the other hand couldn't believe that I had a job that had prospects and was still only 19. When we first met I had never been in a restaurant and my friend took me under her wing and introduced me to good food and wine. She found it quite amusing that I was completely uncultured.

Our career paths ended up being fairly similar. My confidence came in my late 20's when I realised that I was actually quite good at what I was doing. I wish that I had had half of her confidence and direction at 18 as things could have turned out very differently.

Being part of the 7% will give you that. You're better than the 93%. But don't forget you need the 93 to be better than to give you that confidence.

motherinferior my point is that the dcs do not always get the level of attention or opportunity in a class of 35 as they do in a class of 15.

Motherinferior, I second that. I have also found that several teachers encourage public speaking through a variety of ways. All our dcs end up doing the same level GCSE's A levels Degrees etc, or do the rich do something else we don't know about. I would love to see official stats proving state provision to be inferior if any exist. You can't increase a childs capacity to learn with money

State provision is inferior if you look at pure academic results. Local state schools are circa 50-60% pass rate, local private schools 90-100%.

we really don't need any more over confident yups in this country we have our fill.

can we now concentrate on training people to actually do things instead of quote things

OneLieIn - but what is the point of looking at pure academic results? What does that do? How can that be a measure of anything?

Errr doesn't it prove that more qualifications come out of private education?

But my point was that I think that a class size of 15 instead of a class size of 35 gives the teachers more chance / time to put effort into each and every child.

But that doesn't prove anything about the quality of teaching at private schools. The pupils who go in to your local private schools are not comparable with the children who go in to your local state schools.

There are plenty of middle class kids in both systems. Yes there are extremes.

Don't you think the teachers have to put effort in to get those results or are you saying that the kids in private education are somehow more intelligent regardless of the standard of teaching?

Most private schools have entrance exams and only accept the more able students. So it stands to reason their results look good!

Yes, I am saying that. How many neglected children go to private schools, how many from the care system, how many with SEN, how many from slightly rubbish disinterested families?

We have threads on here from parents fretting about private school interviews for their 4 year olds; the private school system simply takes the cream of the crop and delivers them with the same sort of grades that a decent state school could provide at age 18.

"State provision is inferior if you look at pure academic results. Local state schools are circa 50-60% pass rate, local private schools 90-100%."

That's unlikely to be a fair comparison.Most private schools are selective. The figures you refer to for state schools are presumably for comps. Selective state schools IE Grammars have similar if not better results than selective private schools.

Funnily enough I was thinking about confidence today. It's certainly something I lack in many but not all respects and really don't want that passed on to my DCs. I had considered private education as one way to do this (not that I have the money though ). But then thought the real root of my lack of confidence is not school, it was home. There simply wasn't much in the way of expectation If someone expects you to succeed you will fell confident. If you are not expected to succeed, you won't.

I imagine private schools generally,expect the children to succeed. Whereas not all state schools would have such high expectations.

Add message | Report | Message poster OneLieIn Wed 29-Feb-12 23:28:06
State provision is inferior if you look at pure academic results. Local state schools are circa 50-60% pass rate, local private schools 90-100%.

As others have explained, this is because state schools aren't allowed to close their doors to 97% of the population.

7% is total school population at any one time - isn't it getting on for 20% of sixth formers? And over a whole school career it may be different, as some children start but then leave the private system.

I think, though, that whilst of course it is silly to think that confidence is a single-factor issue (I have to say, I've never seen any commentaries suggesting that any factor is uniquely important); it is clear that private schooling does foster confidence considerably. This is both from the ethos and peer group of the school, and the general "because I'm worth it" factor of the premises and facilities.

Cheesey -

I was saying that despite having abusive and dysfuntional families, my close relatives, I think because they went to a posh boarding school, were/are extremely articulate and gave/give the appearance of confidence. It is not all about families or wealth. My Dad was born rich but drank and gambled everything away - he went to boarding school at age 7 and was extremely articulate and outwardy confident. Both his parents were insane alcoholics.

I have two male cousins who both went to the boarding school and are fairly well known, they are both adults and happily married with families despite also having grown up in a dysfunctional family, I doubt they or their partners are on the relationship section. They are not poor but not very wealthy either.

Generally I find my daughters' friends at independent secondaries are more articulate and confident. I think because the classes are smaller they get more time to learn to express their views and they are encouraged to do so. DDs also have some wealthy or posh friends at their state schools; not any less intelligent but less confident and articulate on the whole. I also think the independents teach you to smooze and network to be perfectly honest and state schools on the whole don't. I agree that being born with wealth and a sense of entitlement does bring confidence but it is more than that.

The most socially able man I know went to Eton - he can put anyone at ease, whatever their background. However another man I know went to a different famous public school, and is extremely awkward socially. I think it's a combination of many factors - family, confidence, not just school.