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Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary education

GCSE English query

51 replies

sieglinde · 09/04/2011 11:46

Ok, maybe this should be in AIBU, but I'm utterly gobsmacked; 16-year-old son just got this feedback on one of his GCSE writing tasks:

I'll start with the IED writing. Two points: I don't suppose you'll ever write in a sustained informal register but for this particular purpose your vocabulary does need adjusting: too much of it is "fine writing" vocab. and could be interpreted as inappropriate/misunderstanding task. I know you'll say that's the way you write/talk... but it's risky. Of course you need to show some variety of register... but I still think it's too weighted towards the self-consciously Latinate. You are allowed to chat on paper, when the task demands it.... You have to shape your writing deliberately to show off these things... and change your aim from being "impressive" to something more punchy/journalistic.

I'm happy to say IABU, but I don't get it. I'd be really grateful for advice - it looks like he's being told to write in a less posh way. But it's English, ffs. I mean, why shouldn't he be doing fine writing? Why does he have to write a letter in a 'sustained informal register'? And what is wrong with the Latinate? I'd be really grateful for an explanation form some kind-hearted teacher! My son's teacher just seems to think this is how all 16-year-olds naturally write...

OP posts:

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sieglinde · 23/04/2011 15:20

I'm still a bit bothered by the cultural value stuff involved, not to mention implicit ideas of class/ethnicity and other baggage that hasn't a huge amount to do with English. but ds has done some much more informal IEDs since, and thanks very much to Mumsnetters for their help!

To put these two things together, can anyone tell me when these criteria got established, and has anyone done any work on whether they have obvious class remits etc?

OP posts:

princessparty · 21/04/2011 12:08

Well if that's what they are trying to test then it's a stupid brief! The candidate could be of any age or background as could the family they are writing to.My Uncle writes to me like this all the time.

sieglinde · 14/04/2011 19:29

forehead, that's lovely to read. I can't take much credit for it, I don't think; he's always been like this. Dd is the same; we are probably the very bookish household of freaks for which the first letter was written!

OP posts:

sieglinde · 14/04/2011 16:05

forehead, that's lovely to read. I can't take much credit for it, I don't think; he's always been like this. Dd is the same; we are probably the very bookish household of freaks for which the first letter was written!

OP posts:

forehead · 13/04/2011 17:33

ABout to...... That's the problem too many excuses made for bad behaviour.
Anyway don't want to take over the thread. It's just nice to hear about a sixteen year old who wants to study.

stleger · 13/04/2011 17:22

Bill Bryson would be my choice too. And I sometimes bought the Daily Mail for my ds - he found 'broadsheets' too heavy going, but if he had to do a media task it seemed better than The Sun .

ABouttoeatalltheeggsGIRL · 13/04/2011 16:53

forehead I would guess a lot of the 'horrid children' on Jamie's Dream School haven't had exactly the same upbringing and circumstances that the OP's son has had.

Otherwise a very good thread, lovely to read.

seeker · 13/04/2011 16:45

forehead · 13/04/2011 16:28

I must say OP, that your son is an extremely clever boy and a credit to you.
I cannot help but compare him to those horrid children on 'Jamie's Dream School' If all children were like your son we would have no problem with discipline in schools.

TheCowardlyLion · 13/04/2011 07:42

Quite true, seeker; the whole point of the OCR writing tasks is to test that students are able to adapt their style and register appropriately according to the demands of the task. Showing awareness of form and audience is a significant element of the criteria.

seeker · 12/04/2011 23:09

Bear in mind, however, that if he had written a business letter in a very casual, racy register, nobody would object if he had been asked to make it more formal.

It works both ways!

sieglinde · 12/04/2011 19:04

LornMowa, thanks - yes, I think our sons may come from a different world, probably of our making! So sorry to hear yours is so discouraged - thing is just to hang on for now, as I'm told A-Levels are better. My son sends sympathy and thanks too - he's been very encouraged by some of what people have said, and very much helped too.

OP posts:

LornMowa · 12/04/2011 14:45

OP, I think that the letter is wonderful and your son is very talented. I'm afraid I can't agree that the register is wrong. I can imagine my own son (16) would write in just such a fashion (or rather, he would if he had the confidence that it wouldn't be over-scruitinised - any joy he had in writing has long since vanished due to the GCSE requirements)

As you said, what is deemed to be informal is very subjective. My husband has a love of languages and in our house we never use one anglo-saxon word when two latinate words would do!

slipshodsibyl · 11/04/2011 09:27

Oh dear. I apologise for offending you CowardlyLion. I really didn't mean to single out Coren. The op said she'd met Coren in the post immediately before mine, that's all, so his name was in my mind (though I do think he is also the one whose writing tends to trigger stronger comments from others than the other two perhaps? I don't want to start a discussion about that however!).

I think you might feel that I was dismissing your good advice about writers you suggest for wider reading. If that is so, it was truly unintentional.

My comment about his teacher was supposed to echo the earlier poster who said she/he sounded as if she knew the boy well and was a great teacher. I agree that she does, but did not intend to imply that advice from other posters is not valuable. I am sorry if that is how it came across.

seeker · 10/04/2011 17:20

oh, do give him Bill Bryson! A clever teenager will find him really funny and he writes like a dream too. (honest!)

sieglinde · 10/04/2011 17:09

I think you are ALL really helpful, honest pirate... :) CowardlyLion, thanks for what you said about DS - I think he's good, too, but maybe it's not helpful to let maternal rosy specs blind me to the task in hand! And I'm sure there are blogs that do get read. I myself read a few, but often feel like an eavesdropper, somehow. My idea at the moment is to let him try all of the above - he quite liked the Coren, as said, which is itself a step forward for him.

OP posts:

TheCowardlyLion · 10/04/2011 14:44

I don't think you need to refrain from commenting on my close reading skills, since there is nothing wrong with them; my mind-reading skills might be called into question since that it clearly what you expected me to do. Having been a teacher for sixteen years, I'm relatively confident about my own abilities in the former, thanks. But if you want me to break it down for you in true English teacher fashion, the close reading goes as follows:

The fact that you specifically picked out Giles Coren rather than Bill Bryson or Eddie Izzard (the other two writers referred to in my post) despite the fact that the OP said she couldn't stand any of them suggests that you did in fact wish to comment negatively on him, otherwise you would have used the more generic 'other writers'. Moreover, the phrase 'quite capable of...without' suggests a disparaging view of Coren's writing, implying as it does that the OP's DS would have nothing to learn from reading Coren's work. This is supported by your comment that his teacher is more than capable of advising him. While this is no doubt the case, any good English teacher will always advise a student to read as widely as possible since all students benefit from being exposed to a variety of styles and tones. Your suggestion that the OP's DS does not need to do this since his teacher is the ultimate source of wisdom on this matter subtly reinforces your implication that Coren is not a good enough writer to have anything to teach himself.

By the way, sieglinde, your DS is a bloody brilliant writer. But having taught the Inform Explain Describe task for the whole of my career, I do know what they are looking for so I had hoped to be able to help.

slipshodsibyl · 10/04/2011 13:31

Actually, ThecowardlyLion, I didn't mean to be po faced about Giles Coren - I have nothing against him, nor did I comment positively or negatively on him in any way. I know he is a good writer, but Sieglinde said she didn't enjoy his writing, and it was her comment I had in mind when I responded.

My point was that writing an informal letter which will get a good mark at GCSE level will not take lots of extra work or be hard work for this boy once he thinks about his approach. It isn't going to be difficult for him at all.

I'll refrain from commenting on your close reading skills then...

PixieOnaLeaf · 10/04/2011 13:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sieglinde · 10/04/2011 13:02

Except that not many people read them. Bloggers conduct monologues above a million solitudes. But thanks.

Interesting that there's actually some division of opinion about what counts as informal. One thing I've been pondering is how very culture-specific the categories seem. Must be hard for those from somewhere other than the UK originally. I did some recent study for UK Citizenship Testing, and in its way this is similar. Again, we kinda fail this; we live in the country and we don't have tv, only dvds, so no adverts... that's the whole point, really! What do others think about Puffin's points?

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EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 10/04/2011 11:34

Try this. It's a blog written by a 17 year old girl. It's informal and informative. Blogs are the letters of our age.

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 10/04/2011 11:26

This is English Language? It's about the writing we see on billboards or the scripts of TV commercials as much as Giles Coren. If it's supposed to be an informal letter Coren won't help.

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sieglinde · 10/04/2011 11:17

Once again, huge thanks to all. It's really easy to take such good advice in the helpful spirit it's obviously meant; neither of us understood properly 48 hours ago, and now we do... the wonder of Mumsnet! It's not all hags... or not in my experience.

Special thanks not only for the helpful and specific advice, but for all the supportive comments - Clary - lovely name - and Roisin - really lovely too - and was able to pass some on to my son, who was somewhat cast down by the teacher, I think, and though he the teacher is lovely, everyone needs the odd kind word too... note to self!

He read a Giles Coren Kindle sample last night - me frugal and reluctant to fork out for same as I really don't like said guy - and was mildly tickled by the etymology - think the C S Lewis is also a great idea (and am not worried by content, not after helping same son with RS revision... ) as I remember finding that book quite funny a while back.

So once more, many grateful thanks to all.

OP posts:

meditrina · 10/04/2011 09:20

If you don't mind the Christian content, try the Screwtape Letters. The style is still formal (ish - or at least old-fashioned and educated) but you do get a sense of the character of both the writer and the recipient, and a feeling that you are part of the conversation between them.

roisin · 10/04/2011 09:11

PS I agree completely with Clary (as always) about this thread.

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