If Winchester College don't accept DS1 what about Charterhouse?

[yotty]

Probably going to apply to Winchester for DS1. If he does not get offered a place would Charterhouse be an alternative? He is bright, quirky and likes drama and music, but not good at sport or art. He would have to be a full boarder as we live a short plane ride away. I'm worried that the boys will all be busy playing sport or going home at the weekend. Should I be concerned or am I just being neurotic?

[yotty]

Dotty T, you have hit the nail on the head re plan B. DS1 is a bit of a Rowan Atkinson type character, ie. bit geeky, but really great sense of humour, so people seem to find him amusing and is at the moment quite popular at school. But if he didn't make it into Winchester I wonder if he would be happier at a day school where he can at least walk out the school gates at 4pm, rather than deal with the rough and tumble of a boys boarding house 24/7.

[happygardening]

Win coll sent nearly 40% to oxbridge this year more than Eton or St pauls the only other boys school to beat it was Westminster and they have a mixed 6 th form so the pre u is not causing them problems.

[Colleger]

There is much more to a school than exam results. If that was the only focus I would have sent DS to Westminster. These results are also obtained from being super selective. Many boys that get into Eton are in the top 40% whereas Winchesters are the top 5%. in theory a school like Eton has better teaching if statistics are viewed accurately. I think the year before or a couple of years before 37% went to Oxbridge from Eton and 30% from Winchester - results fluctuate, and not everyone chooses Oxbridge, I hope my sons don't!

Yotty, I think you should have another look at other schools in case Winchester is not an option. It's a great school but in all seriousness it cannot possibly be the only genteel, academic school that has a high number of quirky boys. Plinking for the local independent could be a big mistake as could discounting every other Public school in the country. Your son should be the priority, not perceived value for money! I do think you should have a look at Oundle, if it's location is doable, over Charterhouse.

[Colleger]

Plumping not plinking - darn spell checker!!!

[happygardening]

I was not trying to discuss exam results just picking up on the point that dottyT made about the Pre U; "Wincoll is great, although convincing non UK universities about the pre U might be interesting if one were going down that route."
A boy at my DS prep went to Oundle he was certainly quirky although not exactly a rocket scientist. I'm unsure about Marlborough I hear mixed things about it (its one of our local independent schools). We have some friends who looked at it for their daughter and felt they weren't posh enough or smart enough which was ironic as they were hereditary peers who owned half the county, lived in a 35 bedroomed pile and their sons were Eton. They were very down to earth people and they felt it was full of rich Londoners. I've heard similar things from other people. But I'm sure others will disagree.

[yotty]

Happy gardening, would love to know more about what you hear about Marlborough. I too have heard that wearing the 'right' clothes, going to the 'right' ski resort and being seen in the 'right' London nightclub are high on the agenda at Marlborough. This has mainly come from parents of children who are at less academic schools and one wonders how much of these stories are 'sour grapes'. That being said, the above things are definately NOT high on our agenda and if my sons where interested in those things I would very disappointed. The thing that actually appeals to me about our local school is that the social mix of boys would be greater, which in my boys cosy prep school world would be no bad thing.
The other negative I have heard about Marlborough is that you need to be a roughty-toughty boy to survive. My son is not a wimp and is pretty resilient, but he is not confrontational and does not have an aggressive bone in his body. I would hate his gentle nature to be taken advantage of. Maybe you need to be a roughty-toughty at any boarding school!

[Colleger]

I'd say Charterhous may be more roughty toughty than Marlborough. All of these schools have a large London contingent but the girls tend to come from all over and there is a massive West Country/West Berkshire contingent. I suspect more social climbers will be trying to get in but as they've upped their academic selection then I'm sure there will be an increase in quirky kids. Remember that a lot of parents are dead against single sex and would rather send their quirky child to Marlborough than Winchester.

[happygardening]

I think collegers point about not wanting single sex is very valid this makes Marlborough popular especially if they are uping the academic criteria. it also obviously has excellent road links with London so another plus with London parents. The friends who looked at it did so before anyone had even heard of Kate Middleton and yet she came away with the impression that it was very smart even then. The comments you make yotty about the right skiing holiday etc it exactly what I and my DH who works only a stone throw away from it also hears all the time. I never know how true these rumours are I think people do over exaggerate but I was very surprised how strongly our friends felt about it.
How roughty toughty do you need to be at a boarding school? Thats a very good question. My DS at 13 is now entering his 7th year of full boarding I wonder what he would say? I think you have to be resilient. Boys tease each other, push and shove a bit and roll on each other. A deputy head friend of mine once said that boys can easily step over the line from friendly banter to unkindness without always realising it. The art is to let them banter, push and shove etc. because thats what boys do and its part of growing up but gently intervene when that line is accidentally crossed.

[yotty]

Colleger, You may well have a point re the coed/single sex thing. Ironically, the thing I liked about both Charterhouse and some of the Marlborough houses was that they have 6th form girls in them. I was rather hoping this would take the rough edges of the testosterone element. He probably won't get a look in with the girls when he is a 6th former, but when he is 13 the 6th form girls will probably think he is sweet!

[Colleger]

Yotty, I think you just need to do all you can to make sure DS will go to Winchester. How old is he? Time to take up the bassoon methinks!

[yotty]

He is 10. Pre test next term. Doing grade 3 clarinet next month. Ironically, more macho younger brother is learning the mini bassoon!

[dottyT]

Yotty, how I feel for you - such a hard time for parent and child.

• I was making the point about the preU for non-UK universities -I missed out the hyphen - not UK ones. Just that should you want to consider eg the Ivy League/West Coast, you'll probably need to make more of the running. That's not a strong argument against the preU, it's just a factor to take into account;
  

-In your shoes I'd be scrutinising the Times lists of A level/IB results for the other options and looking at the number of A* in your DS's current strengths but bearing in mind his preferences can change. Where the Times doesn't give them, the Headmaster's office will (DS's school doesn't give them out to the exam table crew). I also did a bit of analysis around gender differentials - having girls can boost results. If looking at co-ed it's perfectly reasonable to ask for the gender breakdown by subject. One co-ed school we looked at produced large numbers of high flying girls, and high flying arts students of both genders; they were much weaker on the sciences and for boys more generally. That was not immediately apparent from their data nor prospectus;

• And, wherever he ends up it sounds as though he'll do well. What's his opinion? Taking the long view, at 40 probably few people will care. He'll have made his networks for himself, through school or otherwise.
  

Or so I used to tell myself and at that point I headed for the glass of Sancerre. I still regret our DS not going to Winchester on some levels but he'll be fine where he is. So will your DS, wherever he goes. Try not to worry overmuch, get him some extra tuition if you can, in the hols or whenever, and good luck.

[yotty]

Thanks for your thoughts DottyT. I feel very lucky that DS is doing well at school and seems very happy at his prep school. He really wants to go to Winchester so let's hope he gets in!
I do try to analyse the results, both in the newspapers and on school websites. That is why I was thinking about Marlborough, as it seems to do well in terms of results and is full boarding and is geographically in almost in the right area. Oundle is just not a good location for us. I have visited King's canturbery, which I liked but DH says too far away from family. Winchester is the perfect location for us, so no pressure on DS!
In terms of results, Canford seem to do really well considering broad intake of children and location is good too. It just doesn't seem to have the kudos of Marlborough and empties out at the weekends.

[dottyT]

Sorry, yotty,didn't mean to teach MNs to suck eggs... Are the west country schools (further west than canford) suitable re distance? but also, the a34 is quite a fast road, as is the M3 going against the traffic, if you take a car up to the Thames based schools. Radley? I think the problem is that correspondents know nice young men coming from these and a number of others.

[Colleger]

Sherborne is a lovely genteel school.

[propatria]

Mmm,genteel is not a word I would use for Sherborne,I know three sets of parents that removed children in the last couple of years due to pastoral issues,

[happygardening]

I've heard the same thing about Sherborne lots of promises but all failed to materialise especially re:pastoral care a friend son left very disappointed but he did say the teaching was of a good standard.
Been asking locals about Marlborough it is considered to be very smart most people with kids at local prep schools who I've spoken to view it as place for the social climbers. As a general principle local prep ed. children go to schools in Cheltenham, Bath or Abingdon or Dauntsey. Non Yotty of these are going to do what you want I suspect.

[Colleger]

Don't even touch the Cheltenham schools. They're as unselective as it gets!

[yotty]

Thanks for asking around Happygardening. I suspect all the schools you mentioned will get the thumbs down from DH due to distance, but thank you for giving it some thought. I think we are just going to have to sit tight and wait until the summer, when we find out whether he has a place at Winchester or not. In the meantime I will just have to keep myself so busy that I don't have time to think about it.

[happygardening]

Colleger is right about Cheltenham and apart from Abingdon none of the others are particularly selective and as I've already said none are a viable alternative to Win Coll. But be optimistic yotty unlike St Pauls Harrow and Eton there are only about 3 applicants for each place. From talking to housemasters they seem to offer out more than 12 places because they know some will drop out so your DS stands a good chance.

[tineemum]

Winchester Scholarship or Election exams are much easier than Eton's because they are looking for something else apart from the academic prowess of a boy. There must be an additional spark. Eton simply has to go on the 'marks' route just because of the number of boys that try for scholarship. Believe me, I know :-)

[tineemum]

oops, sorry but I'm new to this...thought my comment above about the scholarship exams would come right after the previous comment asking about how they are!

[MsTownmouse]

IMHO Winchester best school in the country*. Not mollycoddled as someone said & in fact all boys encouraged to be "doers" and take own resposibility so all from there I know are scarily self sufficient and confident but school ethos is to be modest. It is a relatively small school (670) compared to eg Eton and we have been really pleased at how from the start DS knew boys (or as they say - men) from all through the school and they him. It is a real community.


When DS applied we did not have a plan B. DS had visited Westminster , Eton, Harrow , Marlborough - Wincoll only one he really really wanted to go to - so if your DS , his school and you want it and think it is right for him - just do it .

Plenty of Wincoll boys go to US universities. Pre U not an inhibitor.

• Other opinions are available - please no-one take offence

[happygardening]

I obviously agree with MsTownmouse "Winchester is best school in the country" and if -you persevere beyond the open day- you will find it is entirely unique which is why she and yotty couldn't/cant find an acceptable alternative; when you look at others they are just not the same this is not a criticism of them just how it is. Some people of course don't like it as a friend said "I cant see what I'm buying in too" her son is now very happy at another well know school.

[Colleger]

I think Winchester is only right for a certain boy and potentially terrible for another type of equally bright and quirky boy. I had decided to send DS1 to Winchester and went back on an open with DS2 just to cement the decision in my mind. But unfortunately I was really put off because the boy that showed us round was cripplingly shy and could barely answer the basic questions about the school. Five years at Public School should not produce a boy that continues to be cripplingly shy. I don't expect them to turn out uber-confident men but I was shocked. The Head boys speech basically ridiculed two well-known schools stating that he didn't want to be at a boys boarding school that was akin to a tourist attraction (Eton) or a school removed from reality in it's inclosed campus (Radley). He couldn't understand why boys would want to be in single rooms (Eton) and the comments went on. It's not the first time speeches like this have been made to groups of parents and I felt it was very poor form. If the school is that self-assured then it wouldn't need to talk in such a fashion, especially in front of prospective parents. The open day changed my mind completely and we decided against it mainly because of the speeches/attitudes toward other schools but also because the boys (men) told me that sport was not compulsory after the first year and if a boy didn't want to debate or do public speaking of any sort then he didn't have to. I know that DS1 would have stopped sport and not had the confidence to take the risk and take part in difficult things such as public speaking. He would have developed into a very narrow man with few skills. Some boys need nudged out of their comfort zone.

As for DS2, he would sieze every opportunity at Winchester and I think it would be great for him although he may be bottom of a bright bunch. He's never going to be shy but he is very quirky and could rub less intellectual boys up the wrong way at schools like Eton or Harrow.

I have also recommended Winchester to a number of parents so I am not anti-Winchester, but it's not quite as mannerly as they make out!