What do we do now? :(

[ktbabe]

Hello, I registered on this site after finding it on google...hoping some of you more knowledgeable people can help me. sorry if this gets long.


My daughter is in year 7 at our local secondary school. When she was in year 6 at primary she got bullied quite bad...to the point where she developed an eating disorder. it mostly stemed from childish kids calling her fat (she is very thin, even before the eating disorder) and ugly etc etc.

We chose her current high school as it is the only one in our area, the other schools are at least 3 miles away. all are easily reachable as both myself and my husband drive, there is also a regular bus service every 15 minutes. I selfishly chose the local high school (which is an academy) solely because it was closer and thought it would make family life easier if she could walk...a choice im living to regret.


She joined her current school and much to my dismay, so did the 'bullies'. First 10 days or so were fine, then i got a call off a neighbour to say she had been pushed in front of a car on the main road. THANKFULLY she was fine and escaped with just a bruised elbow.

The school did seem to sort this incident out as the 2 boys who did this havent even spoke to her since.

From then until now, she has not only had her school equipment damagaed/stolen (eg: had 'retard' wrote on her blazer with tipex, spat on etc), but she is also getting the 'fat and ugly' name calling again. Needless to say her eating disorder has started to creep back in, she hates going to school (i now drive her even though its at the end of our road), spends all of her time alone...and her work has slipped (oh she is in the top set for english maths and science). Every single time she makes a new friend, one of the 'bullies' tells the new friend they shouldnt be friends with my daughter as she smells/is fat/ugly/a gypo (u get the idea).

Just before christmas the school called me to say she had been caught stealing a slice of pizza from the canteen. NOT like her at all. She gave the 'i was hungry and lost my lunch' excuse. I found out off my daughter 2 days ago she did that because she had been throwing her lunch away but after 3 days of not eating it got too much so she stole food as she had none.

I have spoken to the head of year 3 times about this issue. It seems to be the same 5/6 kids who are making her so unhappy. The same kids also were the ones that gave her hell at primary school.

We have now decided to put in a transfer after the last contact last week with the head of year i wasnt happy with her response. that these 'bullies' have home and school issues themselves.....and that they are going to keep my daughter inside during breaks/lunch and let her walk home 10 minutes earlier than the rest of the children 'for her own safety'...im not happy with her being cut off from the rest of the school when she has done nothing wrong. Yesterday the head of year had my daughter and also 3 of these children in a room together to try sorting out the issues. Of course everything was fine in the room with the kids promising to get along or stay away from each other....until the end of school day when it all started again.

We went and looked at 4 other high schools in out area. One is awesome (with spaces for year 7) but it is a 10 mile trip which we cannot do. The other 3 schools are all within 3.5 miles but none have apparently have any year 7 spaces.

Where do we go from here? :( do we have any options or does she just have to make with the current school shes at?

Many thanks if you have read this far!

[mummytime]

Go and look at the schools, don't worry about whether they have places, find out if the schools have strong policies on bullying, if they would be the right place for your daughter etc.
Then appeal, arguing that your daughter needs a place because she is being bullied. Others can give you help how to frame this. Have your daughter keep a diary of the incidents, and get as much documentation of them as you can. Get her to see and talk to your GP and get them to write you something about how the bullying is affecting her mental health. This should all help your case.

Good luck!

[admission]

PRH is correct the rules are to say the least a bit stupid but that is where we are at present.

[ktbabe]

First of all i would like to thank you all for your replies and advice!

We have had a looooong hard think/talk (myself, my hubby and my daughter) about what to do for the best. I have also been questioning a few friends who have kids in the other local schools around here. Out of the 3 closest we were considering, 2 have been crossed off due to some of the kids dd has been having issues with have friends/cousins at those 2 schools. I dont want to take her out of one school only to put her in exactly the same situation. DD needs a completely fresh (or as fresh as possible!) start.

So thats leaving us with only 2 schools, the one 10 miles away....or a closer one (3 miles away) which is apparently full. Both are excellent schools which can offer dd exactly what she needs, away from the bullies who have made her life hell.

I'm torn on which one to apply for. The one 10 miles away only has the transport issue (hubby is also worried if she misses the bus home and the car breaks down..she wouldnt be able to get home as its 10 miles away in the countryside), but i know she can start there asap and is just such a lovely school....whereas the other closer school has no issues and in a dire emergency she would be able to walk home as its in the city. I would also need to go through an appeal to even have a chance of getting her in and that is something that is totally new to me and knowing my luck i would end up screwing it up.

[admission]

KTBabe,
10 miles is a long way and I would have serious reservations about doing that journey everyday. I would agree with mummytime about going to see both schools
Is it possible to find out exactly how many places the school 10 miles away has open from the LA admission team or the school itself. If it is 1 then you have a difficult decision to make, but if it is 10 say then I would be much more tempted to ask for a place at the nearer school, accepting that you will probably have to go to appeal and see how that goes.
You talk about screwing an appeal up but believe me that is not usually the case. It does not matter how badly you present your case, the panel will know that most parents find this very difficult and do make allowances for this. Much more important is the need for good evidence. So the current school saying in writing that she is being being bullied, medical evidence that she is suffering etc is what the panel wants to see.
Nothing is guaranteed and there will be some circumstances that no panel will admit a pupil under because the school's situation is simply overwhelming, no matter how good the pupil's case. But you do have a reasonable case providing that you can produce the written evidence to back up what you have said in the posts.

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

Why is your daughter kept in at break and lunch and not the bullies...... I would definitely be asking that.

[HighNoon]

Perhaps ask at your current school about In Year Fair Access. In my LEA local schools have agreed to take up to 3 children over their limit who need to move for reasons like bullying.

[ktbabe]

So sorry for not updating sooner. We have an appointment to visit the closer (but oversubscribed) school monday morning. I have heard nothing but glowing reports from parents who have/had children attending this school and have also heard the pastoral care is fantastic (which is a HUGE bonus).

The downside is it WILL go to an appeal, so there is a chance this school wont be an option as i have no idea how the appeals process works let alone if i even have a valid reason for choosing that school.

Oh and another update...I had a call off my daughters current school on Thursday last week, she had been beaten up by a year 10, wasnt injured, just very muddy as it happened on the school field. The year 10 girl was 'punished' but was still at school the next day so im assuming her punishment wasnt all that good .

[IamFartacus]

Remove her immediately, deregister her from the school by writing a letter stating that they have, in your opinion, failed in their duty of care to her. state that you are going to home educate her until a space becomes available at the school you want. You'd be surprised what the LEA can do to suddenly find a place that apparently didn't exist before. They won't do anything if she already has a place at a school, but if she is HE they will make more of an effort to get her into a school. In the mean time your poor dd can feel safe again.
Even if it took a little while to get her where you want her to go,she would be safer at home than at her current school, she will probably learn more when she doesnt feel threatened, and a bit of time out will probably help with her stress levels. Remove her asap; her safety must be paramount.

[prh47bridge]

The approach suggested by IamFartacus is a very high risk strategy which I would not recommend. The LA may feel you are trying to blackmail them which could adversely affect their attitude to you. They may decide to simply leave you home educating.

How the appeal process works...

You can't appeal until you have applied for the school and been refused entry. At that point you will get a letter from the LA giving the reasons your daughter is being refused entry and explaining how to appeal. You should put in a written statement of your case with any documentary evidence you want to submit to the appeal. Before the hearing you will receive the LA's case for refusing entry to your daughter which you will need to look at carefully to find any weaknesses. We'll be able to help you with that. You can ask the LA any questions you want before the hearing to help you prepare your case and they have to answer.

The appeal hearing itself is in two parts. Firstly the LA presents its case for refusing admission to your daughter. There should be no surprises at this stage - they should be essentially restating the case set out in their written submission. They are not allowed to ambush you with any new evidence. They will essentially argue that the school is full up and admitting your daughter will cause problems. Once the LA's representative has finished, you and the panel will be able to ask them questions. At this point you should be trying to weaken the LA's case, finding ways of showing that admitting your daughter won't really cause problems. For example, if another year already has more pupils than your daughter's year you should point that out as it shows the school can cope with that number of pupils in a year.

After this you present your case for admitting your daughter. Normally I would recommend concentrating on positives about the school for which you are appealing - facilities such as after school clubs that will be of use to your daughter. There is no harm in doing that but in this case I would concentrate on showing that your daughter is being bullied at her current school, that it is affecting her health and she therefore needs to move but the nearest alternative place is 10 miles away. As Admission says, anything you can get in writing to back up your case about the bullying such as statements from her current school, medical evidence, etc. will be very useful. This evidence MUST be submitted before the appeal - send copies with your written case for the appeal and take the originals to the appeal. Once you finish presenting your case the panel and the LA's representative will ask you some questions.

The LA's representative will then be given a chance to make a final statement following which you can make a short final statement in support of your case. You and the LA's representative then leave the room to allow the panel to consider the case. You will hear the result a few days later.

The panel will try hard to put you at your ease. They will not expect you to be an expert at presenting appeals. Don't worry about getting it wrong. You won't.

There are no guarantees with appeals but, given documentary evidence of the bullying and the affect it is having on your daughter, you have a good case.

[prh47bridge]

Effect, not affect in the final paragraph. I hate bad English, especially when I write it myself!

[medmum]

have you explored the option of shared parent transport to the school 10 miles away? The school should be able to tell you if there are other children who live nearby.

[ktbabe]

Thank you for all the info!

One thing that is worrying me, if (which we are 99% sure we will) we take it to appeal, we basically have no documents to back anything up. Current school is very unlikely to help in anyway, they arent even being helpful in signing the transfer form even coming out with comments such as 'we thought you werent serious about transferring', they have had the form a little over one week now and keep fobbing me off with excuses such as its lost/they found it but no one around to sign it/they need to look into the issues before signing etc etc...which leaves just a doctors note for her eating disorder.


I'm already feeling defeated and the ball isnt even rolling yet! :(

[MrsFlittersnoop]

Don't feel defeated ktbabe!

We went through an appeals procdure to get DS into year 9 of the school of our choice when we moved to a different part of the country, and we won.

DS had been bullied in his previous school .

We got a letter from the doctor about how the bullying had affected his mental health and that he had been referred to CAMHS for counselling. Can you take your DD back to the doctor and ask for a referral for some help with her eating disorder?

DS attended a Kidscape anti-bullying course during year 8. Kidscape very kindly also provided us with a letter supporting our application.

Out initial application was turned down on the grounds that the school is over-subscribed and over-crowded, and more pupils would be a health & safety risk. We managed to get hold of (from the school itself) the exact pupil numbers for each year group going back several years, showing that the school regularly admitted pupils over the prescribed numbers.

Go direct to the school and ask them to help you through the admissions/appeals process. Make best friends with the school admissions secretary and buy her chocolates/send a nice thank-you card everytime she helps you or sends a form.

Make an appointment to visit the school with your DD and arrange a meeting with the headteacher.

See if you can get some info from the police about the incident with the car. They should have a report somewhere.

I'm usre there are lots of other things, but can't recall them now. Let us know how you get on - I'm sure we can can help you through the process!

Best of luck - I walked a mile in your shoes, and you and your DD have all my sympathy.

[admission]

KTbabe,
What is this about a transfer form!
There is no such thing, if you wish to try and get into another school you need to write officially to the LA and request a place at the school. They will say no it is full and then you say i want to go to appeal and things move on from there. The current school have no say in any of this.
Could you explain where this transfer form came from, it sounds to me more like a managed move form than anything else.
Your case is substantially weakened if you have no evidence of the bullying. Have you no letters to the school or emails? Any replies from the school?
If not start now. Send them an email now formally complaining about the level of bullying that your daughter is getting. Specifically state the incident in the playing field with a year 10 and ask for a formal statement from the school on the outcome of their investigation of the incident. The school is doing exactly what it should not, pretending none of this is happening, keep it at a verbal level with you so there is no written record of the bullying. Time to get really hard with the school and demanding action. Force them to acknowledge the situation, put everything in writing and ask them to confirm everything in writing

[ktbabe]

The transfer form was from the education authority, the places that deals with all admissions...I phoned them and asked them what i need to do if i wanted to move my child to another school. They said i would need to pick up an in year transfer form from them, fill it in and it would also need my daughters headmaster to sign it (theres a little section at the bottom of the form which includes questions like her attendance and have the reasons for transfer been discussed with the parents that need filling in)...it also states in bold writing that the form would not be processed or accepted if that section wasnt filled in...which is a real shame as im having issues getting that done :(

Every single issue has been done either by meeting or phone call. The police issue is probably the only written thing i can get as i can get that direct from the police without having to go through the school.

I will start writing out an email tonight and get it sent off asap! hopefully they will reply with their investigations and maybe i can also use that....knowing how they deal with things though, im pretty sure they will just phone me when they have received it.

[earwicga]

You are still sending your daughter into this school every day? You should be ashamed of yourself if this is the case.

You wouldn't go into a workplace where YOU were treated like this would you.

[remum]

I am sorry earwicga but do you think your comment is helpful???

ktbabe is doing the best she can and is trying to help her DC through a very difficult time at school. From all of the posts you can see that she is trying as hard as she can to find some resolution from a very difficult situation.

A comment like that is so not necessary!

At this time ktbabe needs support and advice and not harsh words.

Sorry but have joined forum so that I could post as so incensed!

Keep pushing ktbabe for your daughter. My brother was bullied terribly and during that era nobody supported or helped him - he still has issues today from this and he is in his late 40's. Your concern and love and want to change your daughters circumstance will at the very least make her feel understood. You are doing a great job and not risking her education by pulling her from school without consideration.

[earwicga]

ktbabe needs to remove her child from an abusive situation. It isn't risking an education by removing a child from abuse. I have a brother much the same as yours remum - he should have been removed from the abuse, just as this child should be. How anybody can continously send their child into a place where they know they will be abused is beyond me. People don't do it because they have some sort of belief in authority or think it is better to be educated and abused than not abused at all. Very wrong.

But thanks for joining remum to tell me you know better than me. You will fit in nicely here.

[McHobbes]

Just want to say I travelled 10 miles on a bus to school and back again on my own. It was fine - I always made the bus, and in those days we didn't have mobile phones.

I'd go for it. You poor daughter. 10 miles is a fresh start. She'll be fine there.

[remum]

Earwicga - I didnt join because I thought I knew better than you!! I just thought your words were pretty harsh.

We all have different ways of dealing with a situation like this and god forbid if it was my DD I may pull her out of the school. I just feel that ktbabe is trying to do as much as she can for her daughter.. and it is a lot more than my parents ever did for my brother!

[FreudianSlippery]

Poor girl :(

Personally I would, if at all possible, home school until you found another place somewhere close by.

Tbh it may be better anyway as going straight from this hell of a school to a new one could be pretty hard.

Home ed board here (via Education section) is fantastic for advice.

[FreudianSlippery]

I'm with earwicga here, the absolute priority is to get her out ASAP.

[ktbabe]

If it was as simple as taking her out I would have. I have NO knowledge about home schooling what so ever. Plus to do that would mean either myself or my husband would have to give up a job.

I am trying my best to get her out of this situation.

Ideally I would have pulled her out straight away but unfortunately life doesn't work like that. So until its possibly to move her to another school I just have to keep doing the best i can. I take her to school, i pick her up, she knows now to stay around teachers during breaks and lunch and she never goes to the toilet on her own. she phones me every lunch time to just check in so i know shes ok.


Saying I should be ashamed of myself is just a stupid remark and not helpful in the slightest.

[prh47bridge]

I understand the point of view of those who think you should remove your daughter from your current school immediately but I would advise against it at the moment as it could seriously weaken your situation. Until you have written evidence of the bullying you may not be able to win an appeal, in which case your only options would be to home educate or send your daughter to the school 10 miles away. If you did go for the school 10 miles away the LA would undoubtedly argue that it was your choice and that you are therefore not entitled to free transport.

I am afraid some LAs seem to think they can treat transfers between LA schools differently from people moving into the area. They are wrong. Whatever the LA says you do NOT need permission from your daughter's current school to apply for another school. By law you have the right to apply for admission to any school at any time.

As well as following Admission's suggestions so that you get something in writing about your daughter's bullying, contact the LA again in writing (email will do) and tell them you are applying for a place for your child. Tell them that if they refuse to process your application because her current school won't complete the transfer form you will refer the matter to the Local Government Ombudsman.

Even if the school fail to reply to your emails about bullying, you can use your emails to the school coupled with their failure to provide the requested reply in writing as evidence. Anything you can get from the police would clearly be useful. Medical evidence is also useful. As your daughter was bullied in Primary School as well, evidence from that school may also help. Make sure any medical evidence says "In my opinion", NOT "ktbabe tells me" - it must be clear to the panel that the doctor is giving his or her own opinion, not just reflecting yours.

[FreudianSlippery]

I would go to the home ed board and post about your situation - it may not be as unworkable as you think :)