I feel that DH is rejecting our new baby.

[StepfordWeeble]

My DH suffers with an anxiety disorder which means that he goes through phases of feeling terribly anxious the whole time, with his mind awhirl about one successive worry after another. He functions very well in public and at work (he's very successful there) but during his anxious times crumbles almost the minute he walks through the door when he comes home. I spend hours, and hours, and hours acting as his counsellor.

He's desperately sad about the effect that this has on our life and his enjoyment of his time with me and our new DS, and is really working hard at sensible home-based remedies (such as diet and exercise), but point blank refuses to see a doctor or professional therapist.

I'm very sad that we spend so much of our time together processing his irrational worries and it is exhausting dealing with this the whole time. We seem rarely to have fun but what upsets me the most is the impact this is having on his and therefore our enjoyment of our new 9-week old DS (very much PFB!).

My DH clearly loves him but finds his existence a source of pressure/responsibility and therefore anxiety. His worries tend to go along the lines that he will make a mistake at work, his partners or clients will realise that he is no good at his job and fire him and we will lose the house. Having to be the breadwinner for DS gives this extra spice and his anxiety became progressively worse during my pregnancy and has really stepped up a notch since DS was born.

In practice this manifests itself as a refusal to engage with DS. He's very happy to help, but won't take responsibility, IYSWIM. So, for example, he'll change nappies until the cows come home but only when I ask him - he won't "notice" to do it himself. Similarly with bath time, despite this being the traditional Dad activity and just generally when he holds DS he is always watching the TV or playing on the computer at the same time and isn't putting that much into communicating with DS. It's almost like he's a robotic babysitter rather than someone with an emotional bond with our child.

Just now I asked him if he wanted a photograph of DS for his desk. We've had a good day, although as usual have tiptoed around him to make sure he doesn't get stressed. He immediately looked hugely stressed in response to that question and said "I'm not sure, I don't want the pressure" and that if he had a picture of DS at work it would give him something to focus his worries on while he is there. I know he doesn't mean it like this but I feel that these are little rejections of DS. I don't get it. DS is such a lovely, happy little chap.

I'm finding it increasingly hard to deal with this. I feel as though I have to absorb all of his problems, regardless of how ridiculous they are (very, normally) and put up with minor acts of selfishness which are necessary because he needs to maintain a low stress level. Whilst knowing that it is not his fault, I absolutely hate that he can't "man up" for the sake of his son - or put on a better act for both of our sakes. Why couldn't he just have said "yes, I'd love a photo?".

Of course, telling him this only gives him something else to feel guilty and worried about so I'm constantly biting my tongue.

I love him very much and it breaks my heart that he has such a hard time and I do my best to support him, however irrational he is. Equally I feel like his anxiety is ruining our lives on a day to day basis and that it is casting a shadow over what should be a lovely time or us all. I don't want to look back and remember that DH was stressed about this or that instead of remembering what a special happy time we had when DS arrived.

Any tips on how to deal with this? Hopefully there are some MNers out there who have dealt with anxiety/depression either themselves or in their partners?

[Tortington]

i think you need to go to relate. or you at the very least need to tell him how you are feeling and tell him to goto a counsellor once or twice a week.

his dad activities - are very normal. its called 'lazy fucker syndrome'

so do a chart naming is responsabilities - this spells things out - there is no confusion.

so 6.30 prepare his food 7pm bathtime, story, get him to sleep.

get your dh into a routine. and remind him you didn't get an instruction manual when your ds was born.

remind him that you have a life and worries too and that he isn't being fair - and note yourself, that not having proper communication between you - ie he always moaning and you always shouldering responability - will only build up resentment - and this is rubbish communication and needs addressing.

i think you need to assess where his career and your lifestyle interact.

what would happen if he lost his job - would you move, would you get a job? would he get another job?

you might lose 'things' but would you still have each other?

after a discussion together , my dh gave his job up - he was having a rough time at work - and it just was ruining home life.

he now has a job which is less well paid - but so much better - he loves it - we are much much happier.

[StepfordWeeble]

Thanks, Custardo.

I have told DH how I feel - not about today's photo incident - but about other stuff and recently about the robotic babysitting concerns. He says that I'm absolutely right and justified and gets terribly apologetic and upset but then carries on.

There's probably a fair amount of lazy fucker syndrome in there but equally it's like the anxiety takes up so much room in his head that he's unable despite best intentions (he really is a lovely guy who holds himself to very high standards) to think about much else other than either (a) what he is worrying about or (b) the efforts he is making to get better.

In terms of sharing responsibilities pre-baby, I've been very lucky with him (he does all the cooking and washing etc) and so probably have unrealistic expectations. But I'd hoped that he would throw himself into and enjoy the Dad stuff and not have to be coerced - however gently - into doing it.

Unrealistic? Generally do you all have to boss your hubbies/partners about when it comes to childcare stuff? Is is something to do with bonding and the fact that it can take men more time to really care for their kids?

[MadameDefarge]

Hm. He has made his anxiety the focus of your relationship, and now ds has come along and is possibly going to topple his anxiety from top dog status.

He will fight it, passively...all the talk and no action, because that repositions his anxiety back in its rightful place.

To be honest, you have previously colluded in this, so changing it will mean big changes in you too.

On a practical note, I wouldn't worry about the lack of involvement. My exp refused to hold ds when he was tiny...but now they are besotted with each other.

There will come a time when you might need to tell him that not going for counselling or CBT or somesuch is not an option anymore.

It just depends when you decide you don't want to baby his anxiety anymore. But he ain't going to give up without a fight!

[NonnoMum]

I don't know much but I do know that some Dads just don't really enjoy the newborn stage.

It's a good thing that you say you can tell he really loves him. My DH is a brilliant Dad but has rarely done the nappies. Not that he won't or can't but he is too busy doing the tickling!

I bet when the baby is a toddler you won't get a look in!

Good luck and keep your chin up.

[CelticStarlight]

TBH, this all sounds just a little bit passive aggressive, particularly as he is apologetic but does nothing to address YOUR concerns. You are a wife not a counsellor and you shouldn't have to be burdened with all his worries and concerns on a daily basis. It is actually ruining your experience of your newly born DS.

If your DH has trouble dealing with life in general then this needs to be addressed by him. This means either counselling of some sort by a professional counsellor or making adjustments to his life so he doesn't find it so stressful etc. However, from what you say, I think that his anxiety is actually out of the ordinary and needs proper treatment. I suspect that while his worries are genuine there is also a little element of attention seeking in his behaviour, particularly as it seems to have been exacerbated by the birth of your DS.

Please don't put up with this as it must be pretty unbearable walking on eggshells all the time. If your husband loves you then he will go and seek help and he needs to do this not only for you but also for himself. You cannot bear all his burdens or make his life alright for him, he is not a child and you are not his mother, he needs to take responsibility for sorting things out.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Oh this is ever so common. OK not perhaps the anxiety - your H may well have a problem which needs treating - but the way in which a man slowly but surely makes a relationship all about him and then, when the first baby arrives, starts being a nightmare to live with as all of a sudden he's not his wife's number one priority. She's putting the baby first - and then she starts realising that she matters as well, and the man has to start taking turns and sharing.
Some men start shagging around, or threatening to at this point. Some get aggressive. Yours is one of the ones who's got whiny and helpless. As someone else said, he needs to understand that refusing toget help for his issues (and simply expecting you to take care of him all the time) is no longer acceptable.

[Devendra]

Im sorry but he sounds dreadful. He is taking no responsibility for his anxiety, his baby, his life and expecting you to act as amateur therapst.

Anxiety can be helped really well with CBT which he can access fairly simply with an appt with GP.

You need to stop enabling him to carry on in this comfortable role he has because going over and over his worries you are compounding the anxiety..

He needs to grow up and seek help.

[abitchilly]

Yes have experience dealing with it. In our case it is me with the problem.

Works great with my DH because he absolutely refuses 100% to take any responsibility for my 'problem'.

He's pleasant about it, we talk about it etc, but not for one second can I use it as an excuse to allow our family life to be impacted. If this means I have to seek counselling or medical help, then I do, but it's up to me. He's not my counsellor.

So so important because if given an inch I would take a mile (such is the nature of depression).

Don't know how helpful that will be as you're both in a pattern of behaviour now, but you can break out of it. The problem often is that the person not taking responsibility for their mental health is MOST upset about the boat being rocked.

But that doesn't mean the boat shouldn't be rocked.

[DorotheaPlenticlew]

I posted on your other thread, but this one seems more active. Hope you are taking this on board ... good advice here, and it is really not on for him to resist getting the help he needs and force you to make his feelings a priority over everything else. He is a father now and it's time to take responsibility for his own issues.

Getting cross now (sorry) as I cannot reconcile your description of a lovely guy who holds himself to high standards, with someone who is behaving this way despite the impact on his wife and new baby. What about high standards of fairness towards you, eh? He's either not able to see this POV, or he is simply ignoring it because nothing matters to him more than being the main focus of your attention.

As I said on other thread, you will find your DS needs more and more time and energy as he grows into toddlerhood and you won't have "hours" to spend on being a counsellor.

[2010aQuintessentialOdyssey]

I see two issues here, mainly his anxiety, and him not engaging with your baby as much as you would like.

The latter part, I would not take so seriously at this time. A lot of fathers take a while to adjust, and I dont think I have met a single man who would want to have a picture of his baby in work. In some work places, it is not "the culture" to have personal photographs as it distracts from work. I would not take this as him rejecting the baby at all, and I think you might expect too much of him in so early days, regards to noticing a dirty nappy etc. He probably wont take responsibility for that, many men dont. He might, later on, when he feels more comfortable in his role. Sadly, us "full time baby carers" just have to get on with all the tasks, men seem to pick and chose!

But whatever you do, dont SUGGEST to him that the baby is causing him anxiety. Just expect him to behave like it isnt. And dont PANDER to this. I think this is likely to be a man who will happily add to his reasons to obsess over himself and his life, so dont give him more reason to, iyswim.

His anxiety is not normal, and you will have to tell him that he needs to find a professional councellor, as you have been in this role for a long time now, and clearly it is not helping, as he is still spending a long time analyzing things with you, and not making much progress. I would talk to his gp. I would also look into private councellors.

I suffer from anxiety. But I have learnt to rationalize myself out of it. I am sure your husband can too. Unless he is simply just a selfabsorbed twunt.
It is good that you are starting to address this, and that you want to nip it in the bud, so to speak, because you should not have to deal with this. It must be exhausting!

[LoveBeingAMummy]

(I haven't read all the replies although i have read yours op)

I think you have a few different issues here. Firstly the two of you had found a way to deal live around his anxiety. This basically meant he got to off load onto you every evening making him feel better (slightly) and you feeling much worse. Its not actually dealing with it, more like a functioning alcoholic who drinks a certain amount each evening to be able to get through the next day. He needs help with this, it is more than the two of you can deal with on your own.

Expecting him to be able to take such a life changing and huge responisbility as a child without having any effect on his anxiety is naive. Having a baby was not going to fix him, it could only ever add to his worries. I completely understand what he says about the photo, having your son look at him when is feeling low a work could add an extra pressure. You have taken this as an insult to your son however he is being honest with you surely that is best? I didn't have a photo of my dd when i was at work, although lots of parents at my place did. (I would have found it distracting). Many parent who do not have anxiety problem pre baby start to have them post baby becuase it is such a big thing.

ime men do take longer than women to get used to a baby and what do do etc, I've always thought of it as being due to a baby is real to a woman when pg as they are able to feel the baby etc whereas for a man its when it comes out. Of course some of it could be that he's lazy. Do you know much about his own upbringing? Does he have male friends and family members who help out lots are are they leave the mum to it types?

The fact is that with a newborn to care for you cannot carry on the way you were, you will start (have started?) to resent him. He needs to seek help now, for you, the baby but mostly for himself.

[chocolaterabbit]

My DH was a bit similar before DD was born as he has some pretty serious health issues which upset him - not permanently but regularly.

We didn't find a way to deal with it as such but I went completely to pieces after DD was born. it wasn't diagnosed as PND but it pretty damn well was so DH had to step up massively and effectively take over anything he could. He then realised that a) he adored DD and b) he hated his job so he changed it and now works for one client which seems a lot less stressful.

[dizietsma]

Here's the problem- you already have one child, why let your husband become another? You are his wife, not mother or therapist. We all support our DH's through hard times, but what you are describing is beyond that, it is a very unhealthy dynamic IMO. He will not change that, so you need to. Otherwise he will start to compete with your infant son for your attention, another totally inappropriate dynamic, which could drive a wedge between them as your son grows up.

DH and I are both anxiety sufferers, and speaking from that experience, I would strongly urge you to quit all "counselling" you are performing for your husband. It is utterly inappropriate and unhealthy for you to interact with your partner in that way. If you stop providing that service for him, he will have to get professional help. I'm sure he'll make a big fuss about it at first, probably with all sorts of histronics, but you have to tough it out as if his anxiety were a toddler having a tantrum that you will not give in to. I think some tough love in aid of him getting effective help for his problem is worth it.

He probably needs CBT at least to deal with his behaviours and I'd also suggest some psychoanalytic therapy as he clearly likes to talk about himself. If you are struggling with stopping counselling him, perhaps you should also seek help. White Knight syndrome isn't just for men.

[Trifle]

My God I could not cope with anyone as self absorbed and as self centred as he is. The stress you must be living under must be enormous and will only get worse. You already tiptoe round him and do things to avoid causing him any stress. What happens when the baby cries, accidentally breaks something, just cries for attention, do you rush in there to avoid causing your dp any more 'stress'. Jeez I can see you imploding under the strain. Why on earth have you spent hours counselling him, feeding his anxieties, allowing him to indulge his deeply needy personality. You are a martyr for putting up with it and I feel your baby will suffer as a result.

[TheQuibbler]

Everyone feels a little anxiety at some times in their life. But there's a limit, and that limit is when it starts to impact excessively on your relationships and your day to day life, and frankly it sounds as though your husband?s anxiety has tipped over into a disorder.

It?s not his ?fault?, but his condition does need to be treated. Not wanting to see the doctor is quite a classic sign of the anxiety disorder. He?s catastrophising - always going to the most extreme outcome - he probably thinks that if he sees the GP, he?ll be locked up in a high secure mental health unit by the end of the day.

I get it, because I used to do it as well, but I?ve had counselling to deal with that (amongst other things) and have learnt to manage it successfully. I?ll probably always be quite anxious, but it?s no longer defines me.

You might need to get tough, because it ?s going to eat away at you and you will become resentful of his needs. You?re his partner, his wife, his friend. Not his counsellor/therapist. The balance in your relationship is wrong. And your child is going to need you more and more and I would bet that you?re not going to have the time, energy or inclination to continue to prop up your DH, as much as you might want to.

I?d encourage him to find a counsellor that specialises in anxiety disorder - the BACP website has an online directory.
here

[Naetha]

Although your DH has pre-existing anxiety issues (that sound like they need addressing) his reaction to DS and the way he is around him is perfectly normal for a father with a 9 week old firstborn. Men just aren't "tuned in" the same way that mothers are with children for the first few weeks/months. Mothers have hormones and natural instinct to help them, fathers just don't have that in the same way.

His world has just been turned upside down (and regardless of how planned for or longed for this baby is, it's always a bit of a shock to the system and they take a LOT of getting used to). However, he's just had 2 weeks off (or even less maybe?) and then expected by everybody except for you to go back to how he was before. You on the other hand, expect him to be this new man with a new outlook on life (and I mean this in a generic way, not specifically to you and your DH). It's a LOT of pressure to put on someone, especially when you combine it with lack of sleep for both of you, and all sorts of hormones rushing around (for you). If you have always been his rock, then it must be difficult for him for the circumstances of your relationship to have changed so drastically.

My DH was exactly the same for about the first 4-5 months. What reeally made the difference was when he fell off his motorbike when DS was 6 months old, and had to have 3 months off work. It made him realise what my day to day life was like, and he got more in tune with DS's needs, wants and idiosyncrasies. Not to mention how hard it was to rock a (quite heavy!) baby to sleep several times a day.

I'd agree that your DH needs some sort of support with his anxiety - I really would suggest a trip to the GP (if you have a nice understanding one). However, he also needs to understand that what he's going through is completely normal, and to be expected. He is not letting anyone down by being like this, he's just adjusting to the new situation.

I would really recommend you buy or borrow this book:

Babyproofing your marriage

It was brilliant for both of us to read and understand the other's viewpoint without getting too personal or emotional.

Best of luck to all three of you, and I'm sure it will work out fine - this things just take a bit of time sometimes.

[dizietsma]

"Men just aren't "tuned in" the same way that mothers are with children for the first few weeks/months. Mothers have hormones and natural instinct to help them, fathers just don't have that in the same way."

I'm sorry but that's absolute bollocks, based on nothing but gender stereotyping. My DH taught me how to be a natural parent, not the other way around. My parents were godawful, so I had no idea how to love a child the way it ought to be loved. Despite the hormones all I felt was sorry for myself after DD was born, I felt very little for her until my DH modelled for me how to love and care.

I think that often the biological is emphasized as a reason why men can't X with their babies, but actually it's just an excuse for his laziness, her possessiveness and society's gender stereotyping nonsense.

[dizietsma]

Oh and BTW, men also go through hormonal changes around the birth of their child.

[StepfordWeeble]

Wow, thanks for all the responses! As a lot of you have said, I think that there are in fact two issues which had been blurred into one:

(a) he does have an overarching anxiety problem which mainly relates to worries about possible mistakes at work. I need to stop being his counsellor and have a zero tolerance policy about any conversations about the nitty gritty of what's worrying him. It's easier said than done though - when he worries, he sits there like a big ball of tension, absolutely obsessed with whatever it is that he's currently worried about and barely speaking. I often start the conversation in order to break down this tension (which works) but I do see now that I'm just feeding the pattern and rewarding his behaviour with lots of attention.

His reasons for not going to the GP are that, in the past, he's managed to get his feelings under control by changing his diet and lifestyle, but more significantly his Dad suffers from depression (and it's pretty obvious that he has anxiety too) and has taken Prozac for years, without a huge amount of success. DH is desperate to avoid becoming like his Dad - or even being placed in the same category. I asked him repeatedly on Friday night to get professional help (the lifestyle changes didn't seem to make a difference) and he said that he wanted to give his alternative remedies a little longer but was coming around to the idea of medical help because he didn't want to feel like this forever. That's more of a concession than he's ever made before but at the end of the day I can't force him to go...

(b) he's going through a classic top-dog-knocked-down-the-pecking-order adjustment that lots of Dads experience. I'm surprised I haven't twigged about this sooner - he's an only child who seeks attention (in a fun way - lots of performing and jokes) and has always been the high maintenance partner in our relationship. Doh! Thanks, gals, it makes it easier for me to know that this is a normal process, not something to be taken soooo seriously and that it won't necessarily last for as long as his anxiety disorder is around. I also think I can be tougher about behaviour which falls into this category.

I guess I know what to do about the anxiety side of things, but what did you do about your DHs' bonding issues?

Should I make it a very open issue and let him know that that is normal and that he will soon have a really really strong bond, but that he's going to have to put some work into it and I will be nagging encouraging him the whole way?

I even wondered about giving him the photo for his desk and saying that I wasn't going to allow him to make DS part of his anxiety issues and that I wanted him to look at the photo and let DS bring a smile to his face? Is that too much?

Or should I just give it time and not take any action?

[MadameDefarge]

Don't bother about the photo, its a bit OTT. He will come to love DS in his own way in his own time, but that is not to say he shouldn't share a fair portion of the work that comes with a baby, but I do think to tell him that he should be proactive in caring for ds as a sign of love is conflating two issues.

You can't force his emotions, but you can negotiate childcare sharing where appropriate.

As for the nappy thing, I find men just seem to lose their sense of smell when it comes to nappies...

[dizietsma]

"He is not letting anyone down by being like this, he's just adjusting to the new situation."

Sorry, but I hate this too. Why is it always the new mother who has to be understanding of her partner adjusting to a new baby? Women are not immune from the stresses of newborns, quite the opposite thanks to the pressures of gendered expectations, so why do they also have to shoulder the burden of "understanding" their husbands inability to get their arse in gear in the same fashion as they are expected to?

[StepfordWeeble]

PS How long did it take for your DHs to bond with your DCs?

[chocolaterabbit]

Personally, I'd give it time and not mention it but proceed on the basis that there is absolutely no problem because once everything has settled down and your DS is a bit bigger, there probably won't be.

[Naetha]

I see what you're saying dizietsma about why should it be the mother who has to be understanding, but in my opinion the fact that it's give and take, and shared responsibility and compromise.

The OP seems to have her head screwed on very soundly, so I'm sure she can work this out without compromising her standing in the relationship.

Being staunchly feminist is a great ideal, but doesn't help relationships going through difficult patches.

I helped and supported DH when he was struggling to come to terms with having DS about, and he has helped me when I've been having problems as well. It's all about compromise.