DH flies into angry rages unpridicatable and can be about anything

[summerparade]

Atleast that is how my mil described them when she witnessed one recently she was shocked. THe thing is she had absolutely no idea that this has been going on for some time. Been married for 11 years and have 2 children aged nearly 4 and 18 months. He gets so angry with them when he spends any length of time with them and its affecting my relationship with him. He loses it with ds1 ezpecially. When he gets like this he lifts ds1 up to his height and bellows you YOU LITTLE HORROR!!! etc etc We have just returned from holiday and we had situations like this most days!

Mil is very worried and keeps asking me if things are getting better. When I said no she shook her head and said I just don't know whats wrong with him lately. I don't know either but I don't know what to do about it. When he isn't in a rage he is wonderful. He knows its wrong and says things like perhaps if ds1 behaved himself he would be alright! He says he tries not to get stressed but the kids know what buttons to press! I'm rambling now sorry!

[MrKrabs]

[ABetaDad]

dittany/edam - please read my posts. It is perfectly clear I am not excusing anything.

I wrote this in the first line of my first post: "Not excusing his behaviour ...."

Please stop picking over my every word and jumping on me. I know, respect and support your position on the issue of violence by men against women.

I also agree with foxinsocks that there are proactive solutions that a man in this position has to take up.

What proactive solutions would you suggest?

[elliott]

foxinsocks do you have any other reading recommendations? What did you find most helpful?
Thanks

[edam]

abetadad - see my first post back near the start of the thread.

[Plonketyplonk]

I lived with a father who shouted at me, hit me and lost his temper at the smallest thing (bike falling over, not enough butter...). It was terrifying. Nobody could behave normally for fear of an explosion. It is no way to behave. Sorry becomes meaningless when nothing changes. Although it's not a deliberate bullying tactic, it can become very controlling. It's not good for children, in my experience

To the outside world, my father is a charming generous man. Behind closed doors...

[macdoodle]

Rubbish this thread makes me sick!!
Poor HW was hounded out of MN because she didnt defend her DC in almost exactly the same situation!
This is ABUSE pure and simple, mental and PHYSICAL!!!!!!
Your poor poor DS1 he is franky terrified of his father and I am not in the least surprised!
How on fecking earth does a 4yr old and a 2 yr old "know what buttons to press" - crap!!! I can be a shouty mummy and I can lose my temper and shout - but I would never ever dream of blaming my DC, I always talk to them after, explain why I was angry but apologise for shouting! And it is very rare and never ever on the scale!

If that was my H, he would be moving out until he could prove he knew how to behave, which part makes him a "wonderful father"????

Grow up and protect your DC now or stand by and watch them amaged forever ! Pathetic

[Acinonyx]

But macdoodle - if he moved out he would no doubt have the kids on his own without their mother to keep an eye on his behaviour - would that really be an improvement? his behaviour is not so bad that he would be denied having them to stay.

My mother was just like this and my father was just as afraid of her as I was. It makes me feel quite sick reading about it and your little boy saying over and over 'we must find them mummy' - oh how I remember that kind of panic, trying to do whatever I though could make it better. Constantly on egg shells waiting for the next blow-out.

I absolutely could never tolerate that in my house, having grown up with it. I'm afraid it really did affect me. You might want to talk to your dh about what kind of relationship he wants with his children and how he wants them to feel about him when they are adults. He really must get some kind of help with this and recognise that he has the problem here.

[Plonketyplonk]

I hope you are alright, Summerparade. It's a bit scary posting things on here sometimes. I hope you haven't been frightened away.

My mother has stayed with my father. Probably a bad decision, but not an easy one. With my father being the way he was/is, there was no safe place for the children. All my mum's efforts were being put into pacifying a lunatic.

Whatever you decide, please be there for your children and try to protect them. I found Womens Aid brilliant. The NSPCC might also be useful, but I thought they were bloody awful.

If you have a HV you trust, could you talk to her? You poor thing. What a very difficult situation to be in.

[BottySpottom]

What is his relationship with his own father like? I would suspect it is similar to that with his son. Sounds like he needs professional help of some sort.

[SolidGoldBrass]

THe fact that this man's own parents are shocked by his behaviour suggests that it may be something caused by a physical problem whether that's a substance abuse or some health issue and that the situation may be salvageable (because abusers' parents usually won't hear a word said against their beloved son and will blame the abused partner for provoking him).
SO, again, he needs to go to the GP or seek some kind of professional help and assessment. But that;s got to be done now, not 'some time soon.'

And, Abetadad, though I see what you mean to an extent about people learning to manage their anger, I am not so keen on 'women learning strategies to manage men's anger' ie being more obedient and sucking cock more often? Anger management is the responsiblity of the person with anger issues. It is never a good idea to make the whole household revolve around one person's tantrums, this invariably leads to the tantrumming person becoming progressively more abusive to the rest of the household.

[WolframAlpha]

Agree very much with sgb.

[GodzillasBumcheek]

Wouldn't know about someone gratifying my sexual needs to help control my anger () but it could help very much if DH helped me calm down - told me to remove myself from the situation while he dealt with it, or something - instead of thinking i am being OTT on purpose and winding me up even more.

I think the emotional impact of parents separating and then time completely on their own with an angry parent would be more damaging than if the situation improves from here. But only if it improves, which can only happen if he is willing.

[summerparade]

No you didn't frighten me away but a huge part of me has felt very disloyal for posting. I have had problems with my computer but its all sorted now!

THings sort of came to a head yesterday when I was on the phone to my mum and ds1 was playing up. DH picked up ds1 took him from the living room and put him on the naughty chair in the dining room (so seperate rooms entirely). All the while he was shouting very angry and aggressively. My mum heard and said why is he shouting that not what a naughty chair is for tell him to stop it. Dh got the drift of the conversation and was furious with my mum for "interfering!" He was still annoyed an hour later when my mum came round to babysit ds2 while we took ds1 to the dentist. However dh ended up looking after ds2 as ds1 wouldn't come otherwise. Anyway dh was furious with everyone for the rest of the day and told me that my mum interferes too much with the family in a way she never would with my brothers family.

Today he got tests done at a local pharmacy on my insistence. He was not happy and went very begrudgingly indeed. Turns he has a cholestoral reading of 6.43 it should be below 5 and a blood sugar reading 7.2 should be below 7. So it could be the reason for this I don't know.

And for those who critisize me for staying he has not always been this way so I know that some thing has changed why? I don't know. Also if we split he would see the children on his own without me always being there withh them. What good would that be?

[summerparade]

Oh and my dc do honestly think the world of their dad when everything is fine and he is not in these moods. They are into rough and tumble play the second he gets into work and its daddy this daddy that when he's off. Some of the coments on here have been hugely helpful others have shocked me tbh! I just want things to change and to get things as they were before not ask him to leave! Is that really too much to ask?

[Acinonyx]

It does sound like there may be some underlying reason - either psychological or physical, for his worsening temper. If only you can persuade him to have it investigated. He must realise how distressing this is for all of you and want to change. With my mum, I do think she could have been both medicated and respond to counselling - but there was no way she would agree to it.

[macdoodle]

Ho hum!!! Another who wants to defend her man at the cost of her children - I wont post here again after this, you wont listen at all - a wonderful father is not one who screams at his little boys and terrifies them!
I'm a GP and I can pretty much guarantee that a mildy raised cholesterol and sugar WILL NOT account for frankly appaling behaviour, and FFS even if he does feel unwell and stressed that make sit ok for him to treat his children in such a way does it??

[blinder]

Rage being expressed at a small child is abuse. See the following link

www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvice/whatchildabuse/emotionalAbuse/emotionalabuse_wda36358.html

If in doubt, try the NSPCC helplines and discuss it with them.

Not surprised you are at the end of your tether OP. He needs to stop this out-of-control habit now. In your place, I would confront him with the reality of what he is doing. Get literature from the NSPCC to illustrate your points.

[hedgiemum]

Summerparade - I don't think you need to feel disloyal for posting; you are anonymous after all.

I am trying to bear in mind when I read the angriest replies to you, that people read a post like yours and to some extent apply what they know of life to it. So if someone has been a victim of abuse, or has witnessed that kind of thing, then they put their own spin on it. If shouting at a child is child-abuse, then I'm guilty of it many times over, and I bloody well know I'm not. I remember being shouted at by my (loving, wonderful) parents as a child; sometimes I'd done something to trigger it, sometimes it was their bad day, but I was and am very loved by them. We can only do our best as parents, and there will be so many times when it isn't enough.

Equally, I have my own spin to put on it, that of a happily married sahm, married to a DH with a loud voice and a temper! These are some practical things that have helped us (some echo things that others have mentioned)

• DH gets SAD (seasonal affective disorder) and gets very low (for him which then equals shouting a lot) unless he uses his lightbox during the winter/days when he hasn't been out in the sunshine.
• DH NEEDS to make time to exercise, 2 or ideally 3 times a week, or he finds it hard to control his temper. (I've started noticing this with DS age 4, as well). Going to the gym/for a run after a stressful day at work also gives him time to compartmentalize his bad work day, and not "bring it home with him", so to speak. (Regular, loving, sex and cuddles similarly.)
• When DH shouts, he is feeling inside how I feel when I cry. Once we worked this out, it stopped him getting frustrated with me for bursting into tears for petty reasons, and me from getting frustrated with him for shouting over petty situations.
• Strategies for dealing with the children's bad behaviour doesn't come as "naturally" to DH as to me. (Probably just because I deal with them full time). I've had to teach him how "time out" really works, that often a DC can be distracted out of a tantrum or squabble, etc.. etc..
• When he has lost his temper, he needs to WALK AWAY and cool off. (Basically a time out, like a child; or sin-bin, in rugby terms, sounds a bit more macho!) We discuss (and he apologises!) once he has calmed down.
• DH needs time to potter around doing nothing. He's very driven, and with a crazily busy job, and 3 DC (and counting...) it is very easy for him to be busy with something meaningful every single minute. Since he's started getting into gardening, and pottering around out there at weekends, his moods have improved a lot.

I'm not saying in any way that women should stay with men who are abusive. But none of us can accurately judge - from a few paragraphs on the internet - whether this is abusive, that's your call. It is clear you are worried, but also clear that you have lots of close family support around you.

DC of 4 and 2 are very stressful. If I were you I would be wondering if anything difficult is going on at work at the moment, and also health issues etc.. All I can suggest is that when he's calm you discuss how his behaviour has changed, and give him the chance to open up and discuss it, it may take a few tries; that you try to step in quickly with disciplining the DC in the meantime; that you continue to discuss with your families.

[junglist1]

There's a difference between shouting and abuse. I shout at my 2 who doesn't? But the picking up and screaming is different. What if he picks the little one up like that? Shakes her? This man needs to be a man, not throw pathetic toddler tantrums. Everyone is stressed in life, there are single parents out there working their arses off and still having to deal with young ones and housework, and they don't all abuse their children. I don't like the acceptance that men can act how they please because they're stressed, this is where the sense of entitlement stems from, this mollycoddling. If you're so stressed that you need to scream at someone go and pick on a man down the pub, not a tiny child. But that would never happen, because the anger can be controlled, the child is the easy option, because children can't defend themselves.

[GodzillasBumcheek]

If behaviour can change for the worst with the wrong stimuli, it surely can change for the better with the right.

A parent deserves a chance to change.
He needs to realise that while his son may be behaving badly (or at least annoyingly?), so is he. If however he refuses to admit there is a problem then it may be only a matter of time before one of the children gets hurt, as it's likely he'll get more and more wound up.

Screaming "abuse!" doesn't help, does it?

[junglist1]

It's likely he'll get more wound up alright. Abusers always do.

[macdoodle]

Why do we pander to men the same as we do to toddlers they are adults FFS!!!!
Lifting up a 4 yr old to his face to scream at him is not the same as shouting IMO!
This sounds far worse to me!

[blinder]

I agree, Macdoodle. I'm appalled by the amount of excusing that has gone on in this thread.

It's certainly abusive behaviour to man-handle and yell at a child according to all sources. It would class as domestic violence in a divorce case, so why should people allow it, just because the victim is a small child ? I have shouted at my son too and it was abusive of me to do so, but thankfully very rarely, and in every case I was soon able to calm down and apologise to him for it. I am glad to say I never grabbed him in anger, however. Just because we all make mistakes, doesn't mean we should simply carry on doing so!

It is possible for the husband to change this dangerous habit if the OP is able to confront him with the reality of his actions. By putting it down to 'temper' the posters here might ensure that it will never get dealt with .