Why can't we talk about ££ without falling out?

[twofishes]

To cut a long story short I have a poor credit history (from way back when before I met him due to failed IVA, debts accrued trying to pay bills etc)he has a good credit rating , has credit but pays off early etc when he can
However this really affects how we deal with ££, we have separate accounts I work part time, him full time..I get Tax Credits in my account.the deal is I pay Childcare, Food , Petrol and 'so called' incidential (clothes, shoes dinner money, school stuff etc )the credit card payments, he pays Mortgage, insurances, council tax and utility bills insurance, gas & elec so we pay out about the same, but he has more ££ left over each month and has managed to accrue about £1.5K in his account ..I always have £0 by end of month but usually manage okay.
However last two months due to extra Childcare costs and Xmas I have been short to pay things so have to 'ask' hime for ££ which always results in a lecture from him about 'chucking money' away and a huge row!!
This month I have listed everything I have paid for (take outs, shoes for kids, xmas shopping etc) I need to ask him for ££ tonight and know it will end in huge row in fact I am actually NERVOUS about bringing the subject up..have even thought about borrowing money from Provident or someone instead of asking him ..how bad is that ?
Anyone else have the same problem or any advice how to deal with it all without arguing each time...my friends say he is a control freak and he is using the ££ to exert some kind of authority over me...I think it is just different ways of looking at ££

[twofishes]

he has rung and have spoken briefly to him( although very busy as short staffed cos I am not there!), his suggestion (rather dramatically) is that he hands over all his wage to me then I can give him X amount back and I then keep the rest to 'do what I like with'..I said that wasn't a solution and that all I was asking for is a fairer divide of money leftover and a fairer divide of who pays what. That I didn't expect him to have to ask me for money anymore than I should have to ask him and that we should get a proper budget set up and work it out fairly ..the reply to which was 'we'll talk about it later, you work it all out and I'll have a look at it..' whatever that means ph'raps we are making a step in right direction

[millie865]

I think whatever else you do you need to get a new job. I think it is always difficult working with/for a partner (although some people manage to make it work very well) but in your current situation it must be impossible.

The 'you are hysterical accusation' is just a distraction. Ignore it. Don't get drawn into an argument about whether you are or are not being hysterical. Just keep stating your case. If he doesn't like your proposed solution ask him what his solution is.

For what its worth I wouldn't accuse him of caring more about his lunch and magazines than his children's lunch - it will only get his back up and won't help. Try to focus on what you would like from him in future rather than what he has done wrong in the past. A good starting point would be that you both have the same amount of personal spending money after all the bills have been paid. You may have to compromise too - for example if he is worried about a joint account becuase of your debt history you might have to agree a budget together for household expenditure and promise you won't spend more than that.

Good luck

[TheMuppetMistletoeMuggle]

i will never understand how you can be in a relationship/marriage and have to ask for money from your partner!
The relationship i'm in is he works full time, i've been a sahm for 3 weeks - start new job in Jan fulltime! but we share our money its never an issue, even tho i have poor credit rating next to him, if either of us need anything we make sure we've paid all bills and then just go and buy it!
We get xmas presents between us, birthday presents between us.

I just don't understand if your in a relationship/marriage your in it together regardless of who earns more or works fulltime!

[twofishes]

Thanks Tigger, I will def use those points I am soo crap in this situs just get upset that he is soo cold about it all , think it will be a long night was supposed to be going to a friends tonight but think I need to get this situ sorted ASAP....
Not looking forward to work tomorrow either as I am sure his mates there will be ready to take the piss, so tempted to go in with my 4 weeks notice..
thank god for MN, all my RL lot think I should just pack my bags but feel it is worth trying to salvage something

[tigger15]

A new job sounds like a really good idea. At least work can be an escape then!!!

Forget fuming for the moment (the man is a twat it goes w/out saying) and try and think of a list of most important points with specific examples - much harder to refute and say you're hysterical, exaggerating etc.

1. He cares more for his mags and lunch than the kids having any lunch - example: what you described above.

1. He does not see the children as his responsibility and does not care about their welfare - example: he will not pay for their childcare and does not see them being looked after (well) as an essential

1. Despite him earning the most of the 2 of you you are responsible for the greater proportion of expenditures - example: the % I worked out for you in my post.

1. It is impossible for you to save because of the share of the outgoings (see & breakdown) and therefore he has created a situation in which you are perpetually in debt and he is in credit and is using it to exert control over you in a very unpleasant manner - example: his "loans" and refusal to pay the CM

CONCLUSION: This is not about him bringing a treat for the kids (would be nice) every now and then but about the basic inequalities of your relationship which he has created. These need to be redressed and should the sacrifice be his bike mags then so be it.

Twofishes - you'll know which of these points or any others are likely to hit him where it hurts most. But think of the point you want to get across and the effect it'll have and then give a concrete example of it. Much harder to dispute than a general "you always do xyz".

Good luck with your discussion.

[twofishes]

the worst part is he is also my line manager so when he told me to 'F**k Off and go Home! I did!! , then he sends text message saying he is expecting to see me in work and where the hell am I ?...Told him I couldn't work with him any longer, that as my Boss he had told me to go home what the hell was I supposed to do???
Now sat am home searching jobcentre site for new job ...and quietly fuming! will end up with high blood pressure at this rate !!

[twofishes]

well have spoken to him and said that it was like we weren't a partnership that we were just two people who had kids together and lived in the same house, that I was shocked that he would put me in the position of telling the CM we had no ££ to pay when he had ££ to pay her and that he obviously didn't think a lot of me to do that.
I asked him why he classed the ££ left over after paying the direct debits 'his' money when I was scraping around for school dinner money ..pointed out that he never brings the kids home a treat eventhough he goes into town everyday to buy himself lunch and a glossy bike mag..to which he replied that I had never asked him to..feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall, he says I am being hysterical ..and so it goes on and on...for now

[tigger15]

Poor you!!

Try and work out what you want to achieve from talking to him.

Do you want his attitude to change? Do you want him to take over a fair share of the outgoings? How do you think that you can achieve this?

The difference in being married to/living with a partner to sharing a flat with a flatmate is that you have a joint purpose. Therefore with a flat mate while it might be valid to argue over who buys the toilet roll and whose food is whose (and yell at them if they eat yours!) this is not acceptable in a relationship.

Concerning childcare - does he actually care about the kids and want their best interest? In that case would he be happy leaving them with someone who is p*d off because they haven't been paid? If your/his employer said they couldn't pay you when they were meant to and you had a whole load of things depending on that would you be pleased with your employer? Would you think oh well they're having a tough week and most importantly would you work well or conscientiously for them while waiting for payment which you have no guarantee of coming? (I'm not a CM btw )

He obviously has reallised he's done something wrong but you have to ensure that he knows exactly what. He might just be apologising for telling you to f**k off (which is worth apologising for but doesn't solve the underlying problem).

So work out what concessions you want out of him and best way to get them. Now might be the time to show him those figures - particularly if he's in a conciliatory mood, from the point of view of how to prevent this situation reoccurring.

Good luck!!!!

[millie865]

maybe this is the opportunity to have a proper chat about all of this stuff. It seems like he doesn't really consider the two of you a partnership - for example he doesn't think that paying the childminder is as much his responsibility as yours.

The fact that he is ringing to say sorry is a reasonably good sign. Perhaps you need to put the ball back in his court - say you don't want to go through this morning again and what does he suggest the two of you do?

[twofishes]

okay its all gone pear shaped ....
Kids are at CM's today, usually pay her today in cash for the rest of week (3 days in total) as I had no ££ asked HIM to pay and he refused saying that the cash in his account 'isn't spare..! its for emergencies' and to tell CM that wouldn't be able to pay her 'til Friday (payday)...
I said if that was the case he could explain that to her, but when it came to it he just walked off and left me to do the explaining, CM was lovely about it but it needn't have happened...
We travel into work together on Tuesdays and he accuses me of being sulky ( am actually trying very hard not to explode as have to go to work!!)so I explain why I am hacked off and he tells me to F**k Off ..so I did....he has now rung endless times to say he is sorry etc etc but am at the end of my tether am dreading seeing him tonight...sorry just wanted to share !!

[twofishes]

oh thanks for that Tigger ..and also true what you say Coldtits, he will no doubt want to check thru everything himself....def going to do it in New Year though..
Yep they are his kids ....

[macdoodle]

Ummm are they his kids ??

[coldtits]

PS

Be prepared for him not to like this information, and for him to insist against the evidence that it is wrong.

[tigger15]

typo for £136 it should be £126 - the calculation is ok

[tigger15]

Based on the figures you've given:

Your share of the outgoings for this month is £1345 (I've ignored the left over from last month of £126 as he should really be dealing with it but will show you how to use it in final calculation). Your total income is £1120.

His outgoings are: £1001 and his income is £1300

So his outgoings represent 77% of his income. If he absorbed the £126 it would be 87%.

Your outgoings are 120% of your income and with £126 would be 131%.

Now your share of the outgoings w/out the £136 borrowed from him 57%. With the £126 it's 60%.

Following so far?

Now get him to explain why when you are the lower earning of the two of you, you are responsible for the higher share of the expenses? Not fair at all when you look at it like that. Also it's no wonder you can't save when your outgoings are always more than your income.

Looking at the figures even together you're barely if at all making enough to cover the outgoings so his £30 on mags are driving you into debt particularly as he refuses to take responsibility for it.

[twofishes]

Hmmm thats a good idea Tigger but am shite at Maths so will be back in New Year with 'how do I work this out...' thread

[tigger15]

Another idea - before you sit down to talk it over prepare figures of the range of outgoings you have to cover versus your income and do it as a %, then do the same with his. Then work out how muchit would be if you gave up your job (ie no childcare, no tax credits or wages on your side and all your outgoings on his). Then use it to show how how unfair it is %wise and how much you are contributing by working. At the end of the day he's got to face up to the fact that he's an adult in a relationship and has responsibilities. If his toys come before kids' clothes then that is not a responsible attitude.

[TheIceQueen]

Hope you manage to sort something out in the New Year - even if it's not a joint account (we don't have one either) - but at least a better divide/understanding of where the money is actually going.

[TeenyfraeTroone]

Good luck. Am in the very same situ myself except I rely totally on his generosity(or lack of) as I am a SAHM.
Am ready to call it a day now.
Ho Ho bloody Ho!

[coldtits]

Nothing less attractive than a moaning miser.

[twofishes]

well..I showed him the list of my outgoings so far and told him what 'we' needed to pay out for until payday, was very calm and tried to sound matter of fact, but pointed out that there was no point in me having to 'pay him back' as it meant I would be short again next month and so on .. etc ..then a neighbour popped round and saw him doing the dramatic head in hands thing and apologised for coming at a bad time etc ..to which he replied ' oh its alright just 'twofishes' has spent all her money again and once again I have to step in to help her out..bla bla' to which she told him to get a grip of himself, it wasn't 'his' money it was the familys money etc ..which was good for him to hear it coming from someone else ..
He then went out to draw out the cash we needed and handed to me in dramatic fashion
Definately need to sit down with him after Xmas and list all our outgoings/income and split it more fairly.
I understand that due to my poor credit rating that he doesn't want a joint account but this situation just doesn't work...
Thanks for all your opinions..no doubt will be back in New Year !!!!

[AngharadGoldenhand]

You could try pointing out to him that other people (not everyone) think having a joint account where each person has equal access is NORMAL.

He is being an arse.

Share your costs and share what's left over too.

[lilymylovely]

How did you get on twofishes?

[TheIceQueen]

LAG - that's exactly what I'm saying! Of course she shouldn't have to coerce him - he needs to understand that helping out with her "share" of the finances isn't a bad thing.

[LoveAngelGabriel]

Fair enough, but I still think it's ridiculous that her husband has to be coerced into 'giving her a hand'. She has explained that her poor credit rating is firmly in the past and that she isn't an irresponsible spender. She is working part time, presumably so that she can provide childcare? Why on earth is she being treated like a naughty child?