CW: A thread for survivors of childhood familial CSA

[SurvivorSister]

I'm starting this thread as a space for people who experienced sexual abuse in childhood from relatives.

There are far too many of us who were abused by our elder brothers, our fathers, our uncles, our cousins. The taboos around it, even as a survivor, can make it incredibly difficult to discuss with other people who haven't been through it.

I experienced sibling abuse, and it has heavily impacted my life decades later. I still carry far too much shame about what happened, and obviously anger and grief.

That's it for an opening post really. I've never really felt that I've found an appropriate place to talk about this with other people with a similar background. Someone else's recent thread gave me and others a bit of space, prompted me to make this, and here we are.

I've stuck a content warning here and in the title because it's a sensitive subject, obviously. Other than that, I hope this can be a useful open mutual support thread if anyone needs it.
thanks x

[20shadesofgreen]

Yes sashh that was definitely inappropriate sexualised behaviour. It is those feelings of discomfort isn’t it. That knowledge that something isn’t right, that one of your boundaries has been crossed but you don’t have the understanding of the world or the vocabulary at such a young age to put words to it. I found that for many years when I spoke of the abuse, as an adult, I could only use the words of a child to detail what was going on at the time. “That he made me touch his willy”, even as an adult. It was like my mind could not process the situation and incorporate it into my adult world.

[newnamenewface]

Reading this thread, and many others, I am realising the different forms abuse takes. And it is not till recently, having more time to think with pandemic, that I'm questioning my relationship with my parents.

I have always felt weird, and a bit guilty about the fact that I do not like spending time with my parents. I moved to this country when I was 21, and 36 now and in that time I only see them once a year when they visit. And in fact, haven't seen them in a few years now due to various travel plans not working out. But I talk to them every week on Skype, share everything about my life with them, but I do not like being with them.

I think it's because there was an element of emotional abuse - which really only ended a few years ago when I started standing my own ground. I was an only child, my parents were clearly not that happy with each other, so used me as a surrogate spouse for their emotional needs.

E.g. My mum used to travel for work, so I was expected to share a bed with my father till I was 15-16, when she was away. Nothing ever happened, but it made me feel weird then and I still feel very uncomfortable thinking about it. Not sure why. My mother was never nurturing and dumped all her worries and problems on me - treated me more as a friend, than a child. Every time I got into a relationship, she would get very jealous and not want to acknowledge my partner - she didn't like that she wasn't then the most important person in my life. I also now remember getting really horrible beatings for very innocuous things. It was a culture where spanking was the norm, but these were extremely violent thrashings. They left marks add bruises and I got ill from them sometimes. One occasion for such a thrashing was that I lent my textbook to a classmate for the day... At the time I thought it was normal - but it really wasn't was it. When I tried to bring it up with my parents later, they got very defensive and said I was exaggerating it, and my mum would cry and say nothing she ever did was right.

They were also very isolated (on purpose) from friends and family and so isolated me. I wasn't allowed to have friends, anytime I made some, they'd immediately bad mouth them and convince me these friends were betraying me.

There is probably more that happened, because I feel inside something did, but I can't remember everything. Just this feeling that I don't like being alone with them. It has impacted my life because I have no other family, so probably stay in bad relationships longer than I should, as I don't have anyone else to lean on. I also feel constant guilt that I am a bad daughter for not seeing them, or not wanting to have them live with me when older. I have money saved up which I will use to provide excellent care, but I can't bear the thought of being around them. It makes me feel ungrateful and like an arsehole, as nothing terrible like sexual abuse took place. And for all practical purposes they gave me a comfortable life, and taught me right from wrong.

So it's not on the same level as the stories here. But I feel a great loss at not having had the sort of bond others do with their families. Mostly I feel very alone, as I've never known what it's like to be nurtured or looked after. I have considered therapy but not even sure what to say or how to start, as it hasn't had any obvious impact on my life. But surely it can't be normal to feel about my parents like I do.

[sashh]

Have u or did you ever ask her why she did these things?

Not those things but others, she just denied things happened. She also used to make up lies and tell them consistently for years.

When my brother and I were 12 and 10, or about that people would ask if we were twins, my mum always said there was '18 months' between us, there isn't there is 23 months.

She also said of anyone going to uni they had, "got their grant / loan and spent it already"

She often said things that were inappropriate, or did things and there was a lot of emotional abuse and blaming me.

[nailsalive]

sashh among the other stuff she did, my mother did the same with the T-shirt that didn't go beyond the top of her hips, and no bottoms on- without going into the detail she did this in a very deliberate and 'showing' way. Constantly. One of my first, and only early childhood memories, are about this 😳😕 I was creeped out and knew it was 'off' at age of about 3.
I grew up thinking, and maybe still do sometimes, think I just had a dirty mind and I imagined it, she even told me all through my childhood and teens I was dirty, a sl*t, when I was in reality a good and quiet girl.
I wish you - and all the pp- well as you process what happened to you. My mother was also the master of denial. But it's your truth and your experience and that's what counts.

[sashh]

@nailsalive thank you so much. You have no idea how much that means to me.

[nailsalive]

I'm glad sashh. I wasn't sure whether to post it or not but I hoped it might help in some way. It can be hard to articulate and can see why people think you misinterpret.
I think one of the reasons my original therapist didn't believe me - and about the stuff that followed on- was because a) women don't do this - well they can do;
and b) because when a man would do this it would be more 'obvious' as a pp described about erect body parts being flashed in front of them.
Iyswim.

[20shadesofgreen]

Hi Fml glad you posted it would be good if this thread was able to take hold. I keep thinking that I’d love to join a support group who understand the experience but there is none near me.

I have been really lucky in life I have a great husband and my own family are such a joy for me. I still have stuff that comes up from the past though.

How is everyone else doing?

[nailsalive]

Thanks for coming back to this thread fmlagain.
I've also been 'lucky' shades with an understanding DH and lovely dc but - and probably the same for you both and others here- things do keep coming back from time to time.
I've found what has definitely made a difference though is stopping drinking alcohol altogether a few months ago. And starting a low dose antidepressant. And a bit of walking. These all keep me from ruminating too much.
This week I've felt a bit lighter since this thread started.

[20shadesofgreen]

I love walking nails but I’ve gotten so apathetic this last while. I definitely need to get back into it.

These all keep me from ruminating too much

That is absolutely my worst mental habit. It does me no favours.

[Ms82]

Not sure if this is the best place, you are all so incredibly brave. I'm here as my daughter was abused by her paternal grandfather, she is still young, 11. Its been a long ongoing road of recovery, some good some bad days and nights. Of course from my prospective as soon as she told me I knew it was true, it kills me knowing I sent her to visit him, I thought he was such a lovely man. I thought she was lucky having an involved grandfather, how stupid I was then, I took measures to ensure he was never able to see or contact her ever again and made sure she was safe, she's had therapy, both through charity and private, we talk if she wants or needs too. I think at the moment she's doing OK, but I can't help but worry how this will impact her life and her future. He took so much of her childhood I want to do everything I can to make sure she has the most amazing positive life. If you don't mind me asking what helps or doesn't help? What should or shouldn't I do as she gets older it's like a minefield as she matures. Thanks.

[20shadesofgreen]

Ms I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter.

To me, at least, it sounds like you are doing all the right things already. Being aware that issues likely will arise as she moves through life and being open to what that brings up, so she doesn’t go through this alone will be a huge support. Have you got support too?

[nailsalive]

Ms82 You weren't 'stupid'. This is how people get to abuse children- they ingratiate their way into relationships with the child and appear so lovely and helpful. they aren't really noticeable as 'monsters'.
It sounds like you're doing everything right. As shades says, things might come up as she progresses through life changes/ events or certain experiences- incl having her own children can make it all come back.
Some things like smells or words could be triggering so it is important she finds ways of 'grounding' herself and also expressing her thoughts.
And I think even as time goes on, not to come across as dismissive- abuse can have lifelong impact, which doesn't necessarily go away completely BUT your daughter has had the benefit of early therapy, being believed, supportive tiger mum! These will make a huge difference to her future, but she may have difficult times too, even in adulthood.
Try also just to let her be herself and not be defined by her abuse, if that makes sense- she is more than a 'trauma survivor' and needs to be allowed to form her own positive identity- and trauma survivor may well be part of that but not the whole.
Hope that doesn't sound offensive- you are doing a fab job and I wish I had a parent/ family member like you!

[20shadesofgreen]

fml

I have also felt a little lighter this week. Last week I felt in a deep dark hole. This week I feel more positive having gotten alot of things of my chest

That can be me too. I feel so sorry for my DH. I sometimes just have to blurt out the rumination and he gets the fun of listening to it again.

My ruminating stems mainly from the fact that I have been so upset by my own parents handling of the abuse which is why I am so impressed by Ms82 and what she is doing.

I was what I thought was close to my parents, we saw them with our children multiple times per week, but when my father found out about the extent of the abuse that my brother had perpetrated, particularly on my sister (it went on for decades) - he said to me that “he was going to continue his relationship with his son and never mention the abuse again and I was going to have to deal with that” my whole world fell apart. I spoke to my father once after that in a mediation session, after which the mediator advised me to not continue with mediation, as dealing with whatever was causing my father to react in that way would be too traumatic for me to deal with. I lost my parents. And the rest of my whole family, including my sister in spite of the abuse she suffered have helped my parents to sweep pushing me out of my family under the carpet. It has been so traumatic dealing with the split in my family. That has done significantly more harm to me than dealing with the initial abuse. I know that probably doesn’t make sense but for me processing that there are predators who harm people in the world is far easier than processing entire family systems that will cover up abusive dynamics and participate in abusive dynamics if that makes any sense. It has robbed me of my sense of safety or ability to nurture any relationships with people going along with it. Even though many of these people I would love and admire in any other circumstances.

[nailsalive]

20shades I'm not in contact with any of my extended family as they all took her side and didn't believe me. Made out I'm mentally ill etc- which I'm not, but it wouldn't exactly be a surprise to be depressed or whatever if you had been through abuse and on top of that be dismissed as a liar😳 this type of dynamic feels worse than the abuse at times. But it says more about them than me, and I am safe.
Anyway- and breathe!
fml I'm in U.K. but not on Fb.

[20shadesofgreen]

Nails I’m sorry you went through that too. I have found it very hard to process the grief from losing my family over being abused because there was a “closeness of sorts” there but I don’t think any of it is salvageable anymore because they have all gone along with sweeping it under the carpet to make the situation comfortable as a family system.

I have to admit though I laughed at the end of your message with the “and breathe” because I just noticed I had just been holding my breath while reading it. Yes I agree people engaging in the toxic dynamic of hiding abuse have their own issues. I think it really helps knowing we are not alone in this too. ❤️

fml I am in ROI and I’m not a big facebooked either.

[Ms82]

Thank you for all your advice, I really appreciate the kind words. Its really been a nightmare, watching your child screaming that she wants to die, attacking you because she's just so hurt, for a while it was all my fault, she'd told me that I'd made him go away so I was awful, but we just have to keep going keep loving. I don't think I'll ever forget those moments, it's not the life I'd imagined when she was a baby but she is the most amazing, kind, strongest funniest, smart person I know, she is genuinely my hero. I'm so proud of her heart and how thoughtful and loving she is, made all the more amazing by what's she had to overcome. I know she needs a bit of space to become who she is and find herself to be a kid like her friends, you are so right she needs to be more than a survivor, she's growing she wants to play in the park with friends etc have a phone like the others, sometimes I just can't let go, can't risk her being hurt again but I will learn to. Not so much support social services were rubbish, camhs diagnosed complex trauma then left us, police lax at best, completely incompetent in my opinion. Think I bought every book on trauma, ptsd and we tried everything until we found things that helped. I know she feels very alone in this though like other people don't understand, especially those her age, that's why pages like this are so important, this is such a wonderful supportive place, a lifeline. I hope you all know how truly truly amazing you all are and how much things like this mean, there's not many outlets for people. Thank you.

[nailsalive]

Ms82 At least you're daughter will look back when she is older, or as early as her teens, and realise that you dealt with the abuse and didn't sweep it under the carpet- that will be incredibly important for her healing and recovery., (and is not that usual an experience for kids who are abused). She was too young to realise this at the time.

When she says that she doesn't know anyone else who has been sexually abused I'm not sure if it would be helpful or not to tell her that sadly something like 15%- 20% of girls or boys are sexually abused- it is more common than one would think- so unfortunately there will be people in her class or school or neighbourhood who are being abused.
(I can't remember the exact stats but a proper research paper would tell you if you want to check).

There is a website with resources and helpline called NAPAC, you might find that helpful if you haven't used it already. Health education England also have some educational/ support type modules for parents on child mental health. And young minds etc can have useful resources too and helplines for parents- maybe they could advise on access to therapy etc.

It is worth keeping your daughter focused, going forward, on the fact that it was nothing about her that made her grandfather abuse her- it was about him. Also that her being angry with you for taking him away was normal too- she was a child and too young too realise it was abuse/ or to make sense of the experience- he will no doubt have said he loved her/ she was special etc to weave his way into abusing her- in case she later goes on to look at her childhood experience from an adult mindset, and blame herself, rather than from looking at it as the child she was- if that makes sense.

And please look after yourself too. It wasn't your fault.

[20shadesofgreen]

I know she feels very alone in this though like other people don't understand, especially those her age, that's why pages like this are so important, this is such a wonderful supportive place, a lifeline

Tbh I think that if we are being honest it is very isolating. I fell that too as an adult. However the fact that you are going to be there with her from childhood is going to help her more than you can ever know. You really are doing an amazing job.

I think I would have benefited for a parent who was able to teach me that all of the emotions I felt in this were normal, understandable and justified. Even the so called “bad” emotions, anger, rage ... I would also have benefited from someone to stand firm on the message that abuse is very wrong and abusers should be held to account for their abusive behaviour and mean that with their actions which you have also done by removing the abuser from your DDs life.

Your DD is obviously still confused by the messages she received from her GF and you supporting her coming to an understanding in a child appropriate age about the existence of predatory behaviour and the her right to good boundaries might help. However she is probably very afraid too, because as a child she sees the adults in her world as having the job of protecting her. If those adults can’t be trusted then she probably feels very unsafe. Her really and truly believing that her GF is a threat to her probably upends her whole feeling of safety in the world. So it is probably a very slow process bringing her from where she is now to a place she can fully incorporate the idea that some other people can be dangerous for her but most people like you are safe for her. It will also help her if you help her understand her own feelings of discomfort as a warning sign. Most people being abused are being groomed to ignore their own discomfort in the abuse. We are constantly taught to ignore discomfort to accommodate others but instead we should be teaching kids to interpret their discomfort.

There is this notion of a parents job to support the building of a “shark cage” where they help build a child’s boundaries around abusive behaviour specifically predatory behaviour. It is a childhood long process so there is plenty of time for her to develop the skills and heal from this.

[20shadesofgreen]

Hi fml I hope you are doing well. Yes I’m doing well at the moment.

[nailsalive]

Hi fml and shades not too bad here but I've realised I've been sort of disconnected from myself, or my physical body- like I don't want to be aware of myself from my neck down. Don't know if you've ever had anything like that?
I'd stopped my daily walk as well over the last few weeks, just not been motivated, but I think doing so has intensified this disconnected feeling. Or maybe subconsciously I stopped walking because I wanted to feel disconnected
Anyway I finally went a walk today to try and break out of this