Finances / split up / counselling

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

Dh and I have been married for 10 years and have young dcs. I am a SAHM so have no income.

I don't have access to his bank accounts. Our finances are completely separate. I have no income, except an allowance of £200 from him every two weeks. This is for food, activities, clothes etc for the whole family.

Dh's income is circa £80k p/a, but he has just managed to get a large pay rise, so it will soon be more than that. He pays all bills, including my car insurance etc.

Our youngest is about to start childcare, (again dh will pay for that), so I can hopefully get back to work, but I have no idea how that will go, as I have been out of the workplace since our eldest was born, which was six years ago. My salary pre dcs was circa £20k and that was full time, so obviously significantly less than DH.

Recently, things haven't been going all that great. I've honestly started to feel so resentful. We met at university and he asked me to go with him when we graduated, so he could do a graduate scheme. I did and we moved all over for years, with me picking up jobs where I could, contributing to rent and bills for most of that. These weren't glamorous places or places I especially wanted to live. I missed friends who were all in London and my family who are overseas. I also never did anything with my degree and i had a postgraduate lined up before we moved. Obviously I am kicking myself for not doing it now. My mum died suddenly before we had dcs and then my grandparents, who I was close to, died as well. I am sad that before they died I was traipsing round after DH, not spending time with people who truly loved me. His parents are alright but do not make much effort to see us. They have one child and set of grandchildren who they spend a lot of time with. His siblings are vile and have never liked me much. He never stood up for me through years of them being absolute dicks to me. He gets nervous about confrontation and closes down. So, to avoid him having to do that OR me having to tolerate their crap, I now just don't go to family occasions, unless it would be extremely rude not to; ie weddings and funerals.

We did move closer to London in the end, due to his work, but out in the Home Counties, still quite far from old friends in London itself and certainly not possible to pop in to see them easily. He works in London. I have suggested a million times that we could live nearer his work and therefore nearer friends in London and also nearer more opportunities for me to find work etc, but he says no.

The house we now live in, DH picked more or less on his own. I stupidly went along with it, despite some issues with it. I honestly thought, and DH said, this would just be a starter home before we moved on before dcs started school. Dc1 is at school now and we are still here. We have no friends here. It is the sort of place where people tend to have grown up and stayed here their whole lives, so making friends and breaking into those groups can be very hard.

My best friends, when we do see them are awkward around DH. He is joyless and unpleasant when they are here. A bit histrionic and not in any way affectionate towards me. I used to just accept this was his way, as he was always affectionate to me in private, but now the dcs are older, he is still a miserable sod when it's just us. He is too shouty with the kids, especially the eldest and I'm beginning to really dislike him. He won't let me decorate the house. He disagrees with every suggestion I make about it. I can't remember the last time I properly laughed with him.

BUT, he is generally very responsible. He helps out lot at home, with the kids when he can and with housework when he can.

I used to adore him so, so much, so I do think this is a rough patch. But sometimes the idea of the kids and me moving to our own little flat sounds like heaven. I have savings in the region of £30k, but no income and anyway, I'm not throwing in the towel with our marriage yet.

I would love outside perspectives on what to do. If I complain about anything in our life, dh takes the hump and says not to talk about it as it depresses him, so then nothing changes.

Would counselling be an appropriate thing to do in these circumstances?

Most of all I'm just really sad that my life is nothing how I imagined it would be and I really don't want it to pass me by. Maybe this is a problem with just me and not the marriage?

Any advice much appreciated. Excuse ramble^^!

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

He has a really good company pension and is well insured through them as well.

I'm mid thirties, as is he.

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

@RubyTheRockingHorse

I wouldn't say I'm scared of him. Certainly not physically. But he does sometimes put me on edge. Especially in front of other people. I don't exactly know why that is. Embarrassment maybe?

He does look after the kids fairly frequently.

I do intervene if he shouts. He just seems to be on edge sometimes. I've explained to him that his tone is awful. He clearly has no idea what he sounds like. They are young kids and there really isn't any need for that. I don't know. Maybe he gets listened to too well at work and can't fathom children ignoring him when he asks them to do things.

I would say, this is not frequent, the shouting, but more frequent than I would like.

[SleepingStandingUp]

@RubyTheRockingHorse

He has a really good company pension and is well insured through them as well.

I'm mid thirties, as is he.

So he's got a good pension you're not even getting your basic NI contributions.

[HastySlander]

@RubyTheRockingHorse

Yes, youngest dc is starting childcare soon, so I am hoping I can get back to work...but, I will still be dependent on him, won't I? I can't walk into a job which covers bills including childcare even if I did want to leave, which I don't, yet. We are in a reasonably expensive area, (by my standards), as we are sort of near London.

Mortgage is less than £1500 per month. We have bills on top of that obviously.

It is weird isn't it? I know that. He is so jumpy and nervous about it as well. I'd think maybe he's a secret gambling addict, except he really isn't. He's far too careful with money for that.

He’s jumpy and nervous OP because he’s quite clearly sat on an absolutely massive nest egg whilst you’re feeding and clothing a family on £400 pcm with no pension!

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

He tells me he has around £50k in savings. His pension etc is massive also. He does say "ah but that's for both of us". All very nice, except I'm under no illusions that marriages all stay together till then, so 🤷‍♀️.

[PlateTectonics]

There are quite a few different things going on here OP, so an ultimatum doesn't seem like it would be able to cover it all. I think you would definitely benefit from counselling to unpick it all.

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

@PlateTectonics

There are quite a few different things going on here OP, so an ultimatum doesn't seem like it would be able to cover it all. I think you would definitely benefit from counselling to unpick it all.

Yes, a lot going on! Thank you all for answering, as I thought that after I'd posted. Too many 'ishoos'.

I might suggest counselling. When we would actually go, I don't know. Might have to do it by zoom or something.

I think a lot of it is, we met when we were students and i had more disposable money than he did. Then we graduated and I learnt to live really cheaply. Now, I think there is less need to live cheaply, but maybe he hasn't got the message.

[Jackiebrambles]

I think counselling is worth suggesting, and if he refuses then I think that probably says quite a lot in itself. I would suggest you go on your own then because it does sound like there’s a few things going on with his family and how he’s behaved. Plus with your bereavements, it might help straighten out how you feel and what you want.

[GeorginaTheGiant]

There is so much that is wrong with your situation OP but the good news is you’re young enough that it’s not too late to sort it out. You need to decide first off if saving your marriage at any cost is more or less important than sorting out your life and financial situation. Provided it’s not, because if it is you probably need to suck it up and live the rest of your life like this, I would get back to work pronto. That’s step one. Sit your husband down and spell out that life is not going to carry on as it is and if he wants any chance of your marriage lasting he needs to make some major fundamental changes. Off the tip of my head I would be demanding:

• Genuine practical support in returning to work ASAP so committing to his share of sick days, drop offs and pick ups. And not making this hard for you in the million tiny ways we read about on here all the time. Even if your earnings are a fraction of his. If you don’t get back to work, that’s not going to change anytime soon.
  

• Full and immediate disclosure of your exact financial circumstances, access to all accounts and from here on in all income goes into one pot, bills come out and what is left is shared.
  

• Counselling to address the emotional issues in your marriage.
  

• Genuine support for you in building up a social life, hobby or something.
  

I’m sorry to say but your story is thoroughly depressing and a text book example of women making little choices their whole adult life that add up to lead them to such a rotten situation. We have so many women on here who have ‘ended up’ earning peanuts or blocked from reentering the workplace because their husband has the BIG JOB despite them meeting at uni or in a similar graduate job. And THIS here is the textbook story of how that has happened, giving you yourself for him time after time along the way. Reclaim yourself OP, you’re worth it and you have plenty of life left ahead of you. Do you want to live like this until you’re 90?

Also, fundamentally his attitude to your finances is disgusting. He clearly places no value on your role or the fact that it facilitates his earnings, otherwise that would be your money too. He’s had his chance to appreciate you as a SAHP and doesn’t, so he can see how he likes life with you out at work earning your own money. Ugggh men like this give me the utter rage and please, please wake up to your ability and right to lead your own life and not just be a facilitator of him.

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

Amazing pep talk, thank you George!

I do feel as if I have just woken up. My Mom gave up her career to facilitate my Dad's BIG JOB, but she did all the finances and had her parents there all the time, lived where she grew up etc, so it was a little different. Also it was a different time and even then, she was unhappy with the situation. She really needed to be working really and so do I , I think.

[user165423256322]

The older I get, the more I realise that learning when to give up is actually a really important skill and nothing to do with failure or weakness. Persevering doggedly with a situation that is damaging because we're afraid to give up can cause so much needless destruction.

I think throwing the towel in on a marriage littered with hallmarks of coercive control would be preferable to throwing the towel in on your future in your thirties.

He doesn't shout all the time, just often enough to create an edge and for you all to modify your behaviour. He doesn't ban you from seeing your friends, he just makes it so uncomfortable they don't want to be involved and you don't want to extend the invitation.

You should probably consider setting the bar higher than "not pure evil". Nobody is. Doesn't make shitty, controlling behaviour ok.

And to me, extending abusive behaviour to defenceless children - who don't have the luxury of weighing up whether to stay in this environment or not - is unforgivable.

It will cause them much greater stress and anxiety to be subjected to that, and to not have the stability of being able to predict when it will happen, than it causes you as an adult - you do not have him towering over you with vastly greater size and strength, and you have a modicum of power yourself to intervene. They have neither of those benefits to reduce how scary and distressing his verbal assaults are.

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

I think saying he abuses our children and verbally assaults them is probably a bit much for what I'm describing, HOWEVER, I will definitely keep a closer eye on it, as I would never keep our children in a home where they feel they are being abused or intimidated.

If I thought this was coercive control or child abuse, the decision would be easy for me. My question is, is it bad enough to call it a day or not? At the moment I don't think so, but that's why I need some outside opinions.

I appreciate that victims of coercive control may not realise they are until later as well by the way.

Maybe a third party, counsellor or whatever would help with unravelling it all.

[choli]

We have so many women on here who have ‘ended up’ earning peanuts or blocked from reentering the workplace because their husband has the BIG JOB despite them meeting at uni or in a similar graduate job.
Yes, but a huge part of that is women buying into the bullshit of the wonderful sahm dream.

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

@choli

We have so many women on here who have ‘ended up’ earning peanuts or blocked from reentering the workplace because their husband has the BIG JOB despite them meeting at uni or in a similar graduate job.
Yes, but a huge part of that is women buying into the bullshit of the wonderful sahm dream.

Just to say, I didn't buy into any SAHM dream. I got made redundant while on ML with dc1 and never have been without a child to look after and not pregnant in order to properly look for work since.

As I say, the youngest is about to start childcare, so hopefully I can get back to it, but it is going to be tricky to get back and an entry level thing I would think. But, it's a start.

[Jackiebrambles]

I think getting back into work will do wonders for how you feel about things. Is he supportive about your job search and the implications of that?

[MrsKeats]

Could not agree more choli
Women shoot themselves in the foot by being a sahm for a long time.

[katy1213]

Did you say that you gave him half of your inheritance? Why on earth would you do that?
It honestly baffles me. Almost every day on Mumsnet, I read about women - decades younger than me - and it's like feminism was never invented. Giving up everything - career, identity, security - for a man. You don't need counselling. You need a proper job and money of your own. And don't dance to anyone's tune but your own. Let alone someone who is tight-fisted, joyless and unpleasant.

[katy1213]

Also, when you do find a job, don't be fobbed off into paying all of the childcare for the children that are 50% his. You've been the support act to someone else's life for quite long enough.

[Mixedandproud]

I would say counselling is a good idea. You need to lay out how you feel about everything, his moods, his attitude with the DC’s, the financial scrimping, his unwillingness to accept you are not happy with the house and the area you live in, etc. He needs to agree to discuss all of these things and learn to compromise. At the moment he is in control and making all the decisions which is all wrong. He wants to have sex with you but has no interest in whether you are happy. This is something he needs to understand and make steps to change.
I think getting a job would be a good thing for you to get more independence as well.
His attitude to your friends is also unacceptable. This needs to change.

[LannieDuck]

You've been living his life ever since you gave up your postgrad course and moved across the country so that he could do his postgrad course.

First step: You need to decide what do you want from your life? (How old are you?) Would you have the opportunity to do that post-grad course next year? Do you still want to? Whereever you start will be entry level, but that's ok - where do you want to be doing in 10 years' time?

Other first step: Work out what your current financial situation is. Be an equal part of decisions regarding the family finances. What are your family incomings/outgoings? How much do you all have in savings? Pensions? Any short-term/long-term goals, (e.g. renovating or moving into London... or a post-grad course)?

Also linked to this point - sort out that 'allowance' of yours. You're currently getting ~£2,400 a year, and are expected to buy part of the family food shop out of it. He gets about £55k per year take home pay. Work out how much is left after he pays the mortgage, bills, kids' ISAs... I'll bet you find it's more than £2.5k per year. Whatever that remainder is needs to be split between two savings accounts - one in each of your names. If he thinks that's silly and you should trust him to run the savings account in his name only, say it's fine to have only one account.. but you'll open one in your name only and he'll need to trust you. Bet he changes his mind.

Second step: Reconnect with your social network. Prioritise spending time with people you want to - old friends / family. Maybe you could do some weekend visits (by yourself)? Talk through your relationship with them, see what they think. Compare your 'normal' to theirs.

Other second step: Work out what you want to do with your relationship. Counselling might be useful, but only if you still want to work on the relationship. It may have gone too far for that. His attitude to you getting familiar with the finances and taking on equal control of them may tell you all you need to know here...

Long-term: If you decide to stay with him, I agree with PP - you need to have your career facilitated for a change, to get it going again. I recently attended a talk on how senior women had managed their careers, and one split blocks of time with her (also senior) husband. For 5 years, they agreed that one career was a priority, and then it switched over for the next 5. Your DH has had his 5 years (or more), and the next 5 need to be yours. He's just got a promotion, so he won't need to be trying to impress again for a while. So any sick days / career flex / Dr appts etc are his to sort out. If the two of you can't manage drop-offs/pick-ups, then he needs to arrange some childcare. Your career gets protected for the next 5 years.

[madcatladyforever]

When I was bringing up my son alone I earned £15k had a £600 a month mortgage, paid all of the bills myself and my son and I still managed to have a very good life with regular outings and cheap camping holidays. No luxuries but I did a few extra nursing shifts to pay for Xmas and his birthday and he always had nice gifts.
Your husband is on 80k and is making you live like a pauper, refuses to let you know what is left over at the end of the month or share any financial decisions.
How can you live like this? What is he doing with the money? I have so many questions.
I'm sorry OP but he IS spinning you a load of bullshit.
God knows what he is doing with the money. He probably has thousands stashed away which he has no intention of sharing with you.
Do you want to live like this until retirement? Personally I'd be making exit plans.

[madcatladyforever]

OMG you gave him half of your inheritance, what the fuck were you thinking, are you soft in the head?
He treats you like this and you give him all the money you had in the world? You should have put that money in trust for your children.
For Gods sake toughen up and start taking control now.

[Arrivederla]

@katy1213

Did you say that you gave him half of your inheritance? Why on earth would you do that?
It honestly baffles me. Almost every day on Mumsnet, I read about women - decades younger than me - and it's like feminism was never invented. Giving up everything - career, identity, security - for a man. You don't need counselling. You need a proper job and money of your own. And don't dance to anyone's tune but your own. Let alone someone who is tight-fisted, joyless and unpleasant.

Exactly this. Exactly.

Come on op, you can do this. The most important thing by a mile here is financial equality; he doesn't get to give you an "allowance" while keeping you in the dark about your joint financial situation. Don't forget, if you did divorce he would have to give a full financial disclosure and you would be entitled to at least 50:50 (possibly more) of house value, his pension, savings. You may even be able to stay in the house you have now until the dc are older.

The first thing to do is sit him down and discuss how unhappy you are with the current set up; you need access to all bank accounts as an absolute minimum. Who made him the boss of you? Get angry op - he is behaving like a miserable controlling little twat.

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

So, the inheritance and the pension are due to my citizenship of another country, which means I am limited in what I can do financially abroad.

Anyone who knows about my home country's tax system will get exactly where I am talking about from this! Please don't hold it against me.

The plan was for half the inheritance to go into things like hedge funds or SICAVs; funds which are not available to me.

This was actually my idea, as I was concerned about Brexit and a potentially weak £ and economy. But now everyone's economy is in bits, I am more content to just keep the money in my British bank account in sterling. So, he is going to give it back.

Discussed today being added to bank accounts and he says he will print me his bank statements every month if I like, but he doesn't want to add me to the accounts...that isn't the final decision. We are still discussing it.

I think any extra money he has is going on share plans through his work. He said that I spend a lot more on extra things than he does; this is true. But I did day that it isn't that he doesn't have extra money. He just chooses to put it into shares, which are his alone. He can't put me on those as they are work ones.

I've asked for more money for day to day stuff and my inheritance money back.

[Arrivederla]

I've asked for more money for day to day stuff and my inheritance money back.

Ok, but this isn't the really important thing here op. The elephant in the room is the fact that there is no equality, financial or otherwise, in your marriage. He doesn't get to tell you that you won't be added to the accounts as if you are some kind of lesser being.

If he really thinks you are a bit spendthrift that is something that can be discussed but he doesn't get to lay down the law on this. I bet he has accounts or money hidden away that you don't know about. If you do decide to split up your solicitor will almost certainly suggest getting a forensic accountant on to him; I would be inclined to throw that into the conversation now!