Finances / split up / counselling

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

Dh and I have been married for 10 years and have young dcs. I am a SAHM so have no income.

I don't have access to his bank accounts. Our finances are completely separate. I have no income, except an allowance of £200 from him every two weeks. This is for food, activities, clothes etc for the whole family.

Dh's income is circa £80k p/a, but he has just managed to get a large pay rise, so it will soon be more than that. He pays all bills, including my car insurance etc.

Our youngest is about to start childcare, (again dh will pay for that), so I can hopefully get back to work, but I have no idea how that will go, as I have been out of the workplace since our eldest was born, which was six years ago. My salary pre dcs was circa £20k and that was full time, so obviously significantly less than DH.

Recently, things haven't been going all that great. I've honestly started to feel so resentful. We met at university and he asked me to go with him when we graduated, so he could do a graduate scheme. I did and we moved all over for years, with me picking up jobs where I could, contributing to rent and bills for most of that. These weren't glamorous places or places I especially wanted to live. I missed friends who were all in London and my family who are overseas. I also never did anything with my degree and i had a postgraduate lined up before we moved. Obviously I am kicking myself for not doing it now. My mum died suddenly before we had dcs and then my grandparents, who I was close to, died as well. I am sad that before they died I was traipsing round after DH, not spending time with people who truly loved me. His parents are alright but do not make much effort to see us. They have one child and set of grandchildren who they spend a lot of time with. His siblings are vile and have never liked me much. He never stood up for me through years of them being absolute dicks to me. He gets nervous about confrontation and closes down. So, to avoid him having to do that OR me having to tolerate their crap, I now just don't go to family occasions, unless it would be extremely rude not to; ie weddings and funerals.

We did move closer to London in the end, due to his work, but out in the Home Counties, still quite far from old friends in London itself and certainly not possible to pop in to see them easily. He works in London. I have suggested a million times that we could live nearer his work and therefore nearer friends in London and also nearer more opportunities for me to find work etc, but he says no.

The house we now live in, DH picked more or less on his own. I stupidly went along with it, despite some issues with it. I honestly thought, and DH said, this would just be a starter home before we moved on before dcs started school. Dc1 is at school now and we are still here. We have no friends here. It is the sort of place where people tend to have grown up and stayed here their whole lives, so making friends and breaking into those groups can be very hard.

My best friends, when we do see them are awkward around DH. He is joyless and unpleasant when they are here. A bit histrionic and not in any way affectionate towards me. I used to just accept this was his way, as he was always affectionate to me in private, but now the dcs are older, he is still a miserable sod when it's just us. He is too shouty with the kids, especially the eldest and I'm beginning to really dislike him. He won't let me decorate the house. He disagrees with every suggestion I make about it. I can't remember the last time I properly laughed with him.

BUT, he is generally very responsible. He helps out lot at home, with the kids when he can and with housework when he can.

I used to adore him so, so much, so I do think this is a rough patch. But sometimes the idea of the kids and me moving to our own little flat sounds like heaven. I have savings in the region of £30k, but no income and anyway, I'm not throwing in the towel with our marriage yet.

I would love outside perspectives on what to do. If I complain about anything in our life, dh takes the hump and says not to talk about it as it depresses him, so then nothing changes.

Would counselling be an appropriate thing to do in these circumstances?

Most of all I'm just really sad that my life is nothing how I imagined it would be and I really don't want it to pass me by. Maybe this is a problem with just me and not the marriage?

Any advice much appreciated. Excuse ramble^^!

[wedidntstartthefires]

@RubyTheRockingHorse

I already gave him half of it 🤦‍♀️. I've asked for it back, as his savings are more than mine. He will give it back. He isn't totally evil.

They turn evil when you look like you are leaving.

[SunshineMyT1me]

You have very limited access to money

Financial abuse essentially

That is why I would personally never rely on somebody else

[LannieDuck]

@HerNameWasEliza

. You're currently getting ~£2,400 a year, and are expected to buy part of the family food shop out of it. He gets about £55k per year take home pay. Work out how much is left after he pays the mortgage, bills, kids' ISAs... I'll bet you find it's more than £2.5k per year.

I think the OH attitude to money is controlling and selfish but this info is not correct. OP actually said that she gets 200 every two weeks, which is actually 5,200 a year. In addition the OH actually gets a grocery shop in a week so the OP is actually buying only half the groceries or less I think (top ups etc.?). OH is clearly not spending all his income if he has 50K in savings so the issue I think is less about OP being on the breadline but rather about not being an equal partner in decision making. Moving into London would probably cost more but OH has decided by himself that that's not the right thing to do despite there being some clear flexibility in their incomes. It is very controlling of him to shut down all conversations about how OP is feeling and that in particular is very, very worrying.

Yes, sorry - I misread that it was £200/mth. Would still be interested to know how much he has left over every month after bills etc.

[LannieDuck]

but he doesn't want to add me to the accounts

Why not?

The fact he's putting lots of his money into shares is quite worrying. You have no idea how much he has there, or even any idea about where they're stored.

[FlorenceandZebedee]

Loads of really good advice here. Just to add that as you’re married you have taken financial responsibility for each other. As such, if you were to split all aspects of finances would be part of negotiations starting at 50/50 then adjusting for circumstances. This would include his pension, savings and shares as well as any joint assets and equally your inheritance savings.
Individual counselling can be brilliant to help you decide what you want with a thought to couples counselling later if that was appropriate.
Getting back into work will be the best first step in changing your situation.

[SunshineMyT1me]

To me it sounds like he doesn't treat you like an equal

You should have access to all the joint accounts

Print off statements once a month ! You are NOT a child you are his wife & mother of his children

You need to get angry

You need a job

Get your inheritance back !

[GeorginaTheGiant]

It sounds like you think you’re making progress-sorry but you’re really not. He’s just showing more and more what he really thinks. He thinks he gets to say no to adding you to the family bank accounts. That, there, tells you everything you need to know about the power balance in this relationship.

I hate to say it but it doesn’t sound like this situation is very salvageable. Largely because it sounds like you’re going to keep asking him-that in itself tells him that you agree he has the right to decide these things. You need to be telling him that X isn’t acceptable (I.e. you having no access to the bank accounts) and asking him whether he wants to add you or go through a full and financial disclosure during your divorce. I’m not being flippant, if he continues to believe that the status quo is an option then why on earth would he change it? You need to show him that that option is off the table.

Printing out statements is utter bollocks too because A) he won’t get round to it and B) it retains the dynamic that they’re his accounts which he is choosing to show you. No, just no. Please get angry and stand up for yourself.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

And as for where you live now:-

"It isn't that far, but it's hard to get to if you don't live walking distance (no parking and no buses)"

He chose that house and deliberately so, it was designed with his needs solely in mind. He outright lied to you about this being a starter home; this is his forever home in his head. No parking and no buses also keeps you further isolated emotionally and physically.

Abuse like you describe does creep up on people unawares; I would also think you are being coerced in other ways too that you have not mentioned yet.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I would also think he will go onto to try and actively sabotage any and all attempts you make to get back into the workplace. Its all designed to keep you powerless and without a voice. He really does want to keep you in a cage of his own paranoid making.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I have savings in the region of £30k, but no income and anyway, I'm not throwing in the towel with our marriage yet"

Use those savings you have wisely!

This whole idea about throwing in the towel is a nonsense really and is really an example of the sunken costs fallacy.

People get bogged down by focusing on their sunk costs. You've become bogged down by focusing on such.

There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.” This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.

The key is to clear away the distractions to rational and emotional clarity. Getting stuck in your “sunk cost” prevents you from this clarity, whether in your relationships or your investments.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

ruby

re your comment:-
"as I would never keep our children in a home where they feel they are being abused or intimidated".

This is however already happening within your home. He is not at all nice to your eldest child in particular. All they see you doing is various forms of hand wringing and you cannot even protect yourself, let alone them, from his abuses of you. Whilst you are all under the same roof too its impossible.

Its not you, its him but you are also responsible for how and where you have got to now. Would you want your children to be in such a relationship; no you would not. But currently at least you are showing them that this is still acceptable to you.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Why are you and he frankly still together at all?. I can see what is in this for him but you?.
You and in turn your kids are being financially abused here and otherwise mistreated by this man and he should not be your H any longer.

Joint counselling too is NEVER recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. Do you also think that such a man would be amenable to counselling; no and he will refuse this too because he has things with you just as he wants them. You should not have to at all ask him for more money; that money should be shared and yet it is not. Such selfish entitled men never share. The power and control balance in your relationship is well and truly in his favour; you really do have no voice here within this.

[HerNameWasEliza]

. You're currently getting ~£2,400 a year, and are expected to buy part of the family food shop out of it. He gets about £55k per year take home pay. Work out how much is left after he pays the mortgage, bills, kids' ISAs... I'll bet you find it's more than £2.5k per year.

I think the OH attitude to money is controlling and selfish but this info is not correct. OP actually said that she gets 200 every two weeks, which is actually 5,200 a year. In addition the OH actually gets a grocery shop in a week so the OP is actually buying only half the groceries or less I think (top ups etc.?). OH is clearly not spending all his income if he has 50K in savings so the issue I think is less about OP being on the breadline but rather about not being an equal partner in decision making. Moving into London would probably cost more but OH has decided by himself that that's not the right thing to do despite there being some clear flexibility in their incomes. It is very controlling of him to shut down all conversations about how OP is feeling and that in particular is very, very worrying.

[RandomMess]

How much of your spending is for his DC though rather than just you?

Does he want to look the trophy wife? Hair and nails done in nice clothes etc?

[Arrivederla]

I've asked for more money for day to day stuff and my inheritance money back.

Ok, but this isn't the really important thing here op. The elephant in the room is the fact that there is no equality, financial or otherwise, in your marriage. He doesn't get to tell you that you won't be added to the accounts as if you are some kind of lesser being.

If he really thinks you are a bit spendthrift that is something that can be discussed but he doesn't get to lay down the law on this. I bet he has accounts or money hidden away that you don't know about. If you do decide to split up your solicitor will almost certainly suggest getting a forensic accountant on to him; I would be inclined to throw that into the conversation now!

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

So, the inheritance and the pension are due to my citizenship of another country, which means I am limited in what I can do financially abroad.

Anyone who knows about my home country's tax system will get exactly where I am talking about from this! Please don't hold it against me.

The plan was for half the inheritance to go into things like hedge funds or SICAVs; funds which are not available to me.

This was actually my idea, as I was concerned about Brexit and a potentially weak £ and economy. But now everyone's economy is in bits, I am more content to just keep the money in my British bank account in sterling. So, he is going to give it back.

Discussed today being added to bank accounts and he says he will print me his bank statements every month if I like, but he doesn't want to add me to the accounts...that isn't the final decision. We are still discussing it.

I think any extra money he has is going on share plans through his work. He said that I spend a lot more on extra things than he does; this is true. But I did day that it isn't that he doesn't have extra money. He just chooses to put it into shares, which are his alone. He can't put me on those as they are work ones.

I've asked for more money for day to day stuff and my inheritance money back.

[Arrivederla]

@katy1213

Did you say that you gave him half of your inheritance? Why on earth would you do that?
It honestly baffles me. Almost every day on Mumsnet, I read about women - decades younger than me - and it's like feminism was never invented. Giving up everything - career, identity, security - for a man. You don't need counselling. You need a proper job and money of your own. And don't dance to anyone's tune but your own. Let alone someone who is tight-fisted, joyless and unpleasant.

Exactly this. Exactly.

Come on op, you can do this. The most important thing by a mile here is financial equality; he doesn't get to give you an "allowance" while keeping you in the dark about your joint financial situation. Don't forget, if you did divorce he would have to give a full financial disclosure and you would be entitled to at least 50:50 (possibly more) of house value, his pension, savings. You may even be able to stay in the house you have now until the dc are older.

The first thing to do is sit him down and discuss how unhappy you are with the current set up; you need access to all bank accounts as an absolute minimum. Who made him the boss of you? Get angry op - he is behaving like a miserable controlling little twat.

[madcatladyforever]

OMG you gave him half of your inheritance, what the fuck were you thinking, are you soft in the head?
He treats you like this and you give him all the money you had in the world? You should have put that money in trust for your children.
For Gods sake toughen up and start taking control now.

[madcatladyforever]

When I was bringing up my son alone I earned £15k had a £600 a month mortgage, paid all of the bills myself and my son and I still managed to have a very good life with regular outings and cheap camping holidays. No luxuries but I did a few extra nursing shifts to pay for Xmas and his birthday and he always had nice gifts.
Your husband is on 80k and is making you live like a pauper, refuses to let you know what is left over at the end of the month or share any financial decisions.
How can you live like this? What is he doing with the money? I have so many questions.
I'm sorry OP but he IS spinning you a load of bullshit.
God knows what he is doing with the money. He probably has thousands stashed away which he has no intention of sharing with you.
Do you want to live like this until retirement? Personally I'd be making exit plans.

[LannieDuck]

You've been living his life ever since you gave up your postgrad course and moved across the country so that he could do his postgrad course.

First step: You need to decide what do you want from your life? (How old are you?) Would you have the opportunity to do that post-grad course next year? Do you still want to? Whereever you start will be entry level, but that's ok - where do you want to be doing in 10 years' time?

Other first step: Work out what your current financial situation is. Be an equal part of decisions regarding the family finances. What are your family incomings/outgoings? How much do you all have in savings? Pensions? Any short-term/long-term goals, (e.g. renovating or moving into London... or a post-grad course)?

Also linked to this point - sort out that 'allowance' of yours. You're currently getting ~£2,400 a year, and are expected to buy part of the family food shop out of it. He gets about £55k per year take home pay. Work out how much is left after he pays the mortgage, bills, kids' ISAs... I'll bet you find it's more than £2.5k per year. Whatever that remainder is needs to be split between two savings accounts - one in each of your names. If he thinks that's silly and you should trust him to run the savings account in his name only, say it's fine to have only one account.. but you'll open one in your name only and he'll need to trust you. Bet he changes his mind.

Second step: Reconnect with your social network. Prioritise spending time with people you want to - old friends / family. Maybe you could do some weekend visits (by yourself)? Talk through your relationship with them, see what they think. Compare your 'normal' to theirs.

Other second step: Work out what you want to do with your relationship. Counselling might be useful, but only if you still want to work on the relationship. It may have gone too far for that. His attitude to you getting familiar with the finances and taking on equal control of them may tell you all you need to know here...

Long-term: If you decide to stay with him, I agree with PP - you need to have your career facilitated for a change, to get it going again. I recently attended a talk on how senior women had managed their careers, and one split blocks of time with her (also senior) husband. For 5 years, they agreed that one career was a priority, and then it switched over for the next 5. Your DH has had his 5 years (or more), and the next 5 need to be yours. He's just got a promotion, so he won't need to be trying to impress again for a while. So any sick days / career flex / Dr appts etc are his to sort out. If the two of you can't manage drop-offs/pick-ups, then he needs to arrange some childcare. Your career gets protected for the next 5 years.

[Mixedandproud]

I would say counselling is a good idea. You need to lay out how you feel about everything, his moods, his attitude with the DC’s, the financial scrimping, his unwillingness to accept you are not happy with the house and the area you live in, etc. He needs to agree to discuss all of these things and learn to compromise. At the moment he is in control and making all the decisions which is all wrong. He wants to have sex with you but has no interest in whether you are happy. This is something he needs to understand and make steps to change.
I think getting a job would be a good thing for you to get more independence as well.
His attitude to your friends is also unacceptable. This needs to change.

[katy1213]

Also, when you do find a job, don't be fobbed off into paying all of the childcare for the children that are 50% his. You've been the support act to someone else's life for quite long enough.

[katy1213]

Did you say that you gave him half of your inheritance? Why on earth would you do that?
It honestly baffles me. Almost every day on Mumsnet, I read about women - decades younger than me - and it's like feminism was never invented. Giving up everything - career, identity, security - for a man. You don't need counselling. You need a proper job and money of your own. And don't dance to anyone's tune but your own. Let alone someone who is tight-fisted, joyless and unpleasant.

[MrsKeats]

Could not agree more choli
Women shoot themselves in the foot by being a sahm for a long time.

[Jackiebrambles]

I think getting back into work will do wonders for how you feel about things. Is he supportive about your job search and the implications of that?

[RubyTheRockingHorse]

@choli

We have so many women on here who have ‘ended up’ earning peanuts or blocked from reentering the workplace because their husband has the BIG JOB despite them meeting at uni or in a similar graduate job.
Yes, but a huge part of that is women buying into the bullshit of the wonderful sahm dream.

Just to say, I didn't buy into any SAHM dream. I got made redundant while on ML with dc1 and never have been without a child to look after and not pregnant in order to properly look for work since.

As I say, the youngest is about to start childcare, so hopefully I can get back to it, but it is going to be tricky to get back and an entry level thing I would think. But, it's a start.