Had to choose

[Randomlettersmake]

Posting here for extra answers


We are in a heartbreaking unfair situation.

I have a fiance of five years and we have lived together for 4. I have 3 children from previous relationship aged 14, 12 and 8. He has 2 children aged 11 and 7. We have one child together aged 6 months. We are all white.

His ex has 2 other children aged under 6 and 1 older child (about 15). These children are both of mixed heritage (black fathers). She currently has a black husband. She and my fiance split up when their younger child was a baby. Things were cordial but over time, they have deteriorated. More since we got together and had a baby and got engaged.

My ex has been going for 50/50 custody up from fortnightly weekends and a bit longer on holidays and his ex has been fighting it. They are not cordial any more and do not speak at all. The ex says that the environment and home we provide is not in keeping with her values and it would be "damaging" if they spend more time in our company.

She has collected various social media posts of myself and my family (even my kids dad) as evidence and we have had numerous interviews with legal professionals mediators, psychologists and social workers on both sides. The evidence she has presented basically says that me and my family are racist and homophobic. It was all things to do with Brexit and the election and support of the army (my brother is a soldier). We were assured by solicitor in January that nothing she provided was racist and is covered under free speech but it now seems we are at a point (advised by same solicitors and mediators) that it would be best if my fiance moved out if he wants to keep regular overnight access with his children. Otherwise his ex has agreed that he can see the children at his parents house and stay there with them (40 miles away from us) one weekend a month and visit them and take them out where they live one weekend day a week with their baby sibling (our baby) but not their step siblings (my three). He has occasional friendly contact with his children's older brother (sends him money for Xmas and birthdays) so will probably see him too when he is there.

Much of what the children has said has not been made open to us or their mum. Just summaries of their views (is this usual?). They said they like me and get on well with me but my family can be loud and scary and they drink a lot (clairifed: more than their mum or dad's family but nobody being sick or falling over) at family events.

So now they have said that he should move out for the time being and try and rebuild with his kids 50/50 custody or accept this other arrangement because he might get even less if he continues. They might say no overnight or holidays and only visits.

His parents adore their grandchildren and have said it is sad but might be for the best for now and told him that he could live near them and they will help him with the children when he has them (including ours).

I feel like they think we are trash and I am terrified my fiance will leave me. We were thinking about setting a date for wedding and last night I said to him "well we cant think about the wedding for now maybe forever" and he didn't even say anything just huffed.

We have not seen them since mid March due to pandemic and they seem more and more distant from their dad when they do speak a few times a week. The 15 year old eldest boy posted a picture of him with all his siblings on Instagram talking about being a mixed family and the riots going on and my fiance just showed it to me and stayed quiet the whole night.

I can't condemn my family so he can keep his kids stay here. What else can we do?

[flamingochill]

If it was just about Brexit then 52% of Dads would be considered unfit. Obviously there's something that you're not saying or downplaying.

Have your family locked down their SM? Have you? I'm mixed race and would be furious if my ex's gf was saying or liking racist stuff. (I assume that the posts are racist since being pro-Brexit doesn't risk custody normally)

I'm surprised that your bf's parents think that he should move out. Im assuming that they think your family are racist too?

[Shinebright72]

I agree I don’t understand there 50/50 is it not all a bit much for the kids too?. It’s complex when people start new family’s this should of been taking into account before bringing another child in the picture OP. It’s not fair on any of the kids

[Lynda07]

What on earth were you doing, posting such stuff on social media for the world and its wife to see?

[Thepigeonsarecoming]

There must be more to this OP, I’m a SM and had some conflicts, however this feels odd

Can you share what posts offended her so we can see if they were just pro Brexit or something more? Surely as a mother too you would want to protect your children above all else?

[XDownwiththissortofthingX]

@MLouise84

Who exactly are these 'far left' extremists you are friends with on Facebook?

Every reason you gave for voting for Brexit has nothing to do with immigration, and everything to do with decades of underprovision of public services by successive governments. Immigrants are net contributors to the UK economy, it's literally impossible for them to be the cause of lack of services.

When your justifications are completely at odds with reality, it's not difficult to imagine why people might conclude your choices are racially motivated.

[MLouise84]

@XDownwiththissortofthingX they claim to be liberal but won't let anyone else have a different opinion to them. We're massively over populated, I accept they contribute a great deal but we don't have the space. My kids have to travel miles to school because our local one is over subscribed. They had primary class sizes of 34. But I dare not ever express that because people think that I'm racist. I was making the point for the sake of this post......things can be misconstrued. That's what she needs to say exactly what was posted.

[Shinebright72]

You can see how it could cause conflict. It’s not just foreign people who exhaust the benefit system and causing problems such as lack of housing and school places. Plenty of 2 parents family’s do it too and have lived in UK all their lives.

[MLouise84]

@Shinebright72 was your comment aimed at me? I don't share my political views on social media, hence my previous comment about how exercising your freedom of speech can be used against you. I didn't comment on the benefit / housing situation, yet you presume I have a problem with that. I don't. Schools are over populated in my area due do to an influx of European immigrants. We either need more schools or less immigration. That's my lived experience. That doesn't make me racist, in fact, it has nothing at all so do with race, so why should it cause conflict? I won't be commenting further on my own views as it's not my thread. I'm just pointing out that people voting Brexit doesn't automatically make them racist. That's said, they might well be racist....that's why OP should say exactly what was posted.

[Shinebright72]

Ok. We will leave that here then I wouldn’t want to “presume”

[Shinebright72]

@MLouise84 I agree with some of your points there’s no denying what your pointing out is true. Hence why I elaborated onto further related issues.

However I do notice “we” can be biased and forgot all too quickly that foreign (most) are here for a reason. There’s a lot of lazy Brits that are not willing to work due to thinking a certain type of work is beneath them

Where as I do notice a lot of foreign people do benefit our Country. It’s a business....other wise they wouldn’t be here in the first place if it wasn’t beneficial to the government somehow.

[MLouise84]

• lot of lazy Brits that are not willing to work due to thinking a certain type of work is beneath them
  
  Where as I do notice a lot of foreign people do benefit our Country. It’s a business....other wise they wouldn’t be here in the first place if it wasn’t beneficial to the government somehow.*
  
  But I don't disagree with any of this.

[MLouise84]

@Shinebright72 I didn't mean to be rude when I said you assume that I have a problem with housing/benefits etc. I'm just pointing out that people do make presumptions about you based on your political opinions. I fully except that immigration is hugely beneficial to this country and I wouldn't want to to stop it, but I do believe that having free movement has also put stress on schools and other public services but that doesn't mean that I don't like immigrants. I'm literally just making a point that people can't make the wrong assumptions from political posts.

[Shinebright72]

@MLouise84 it’s how you wrote “they” who are THEY? To be honest your out of order I know full well what you was implying other wise you wouldn’t of ASSUMED my post was to you clearly it resonates with you. YET AGAIN no mention of the lazy Brits that sit and have child after child and claim from the system.... people with 3 kids plus and don’t pay into the system!!

Also they are not ALL immigrants there a difference between and immigrants and foreigners just like the expats in Spain.

Also did I ever say you was racist NO I didn’t.

I you are referring to YOUR OWN KIND when writing “they”. The problems you listed are ALSO down to “Brits” or do they not contribute to the school issue

[MLouise84]

@Shinebright72 that's exactly what I mean. Thanks for demonstrating it so well 👏👏👏.

I have never referred to anyone as a 'foreigner' I also haven't used the word 'they' when referring to immigrants. I used 'they' when I was talking about the 'left wing'. Where exactly do you think we should send the lazy Brits? Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about them but we can stop contributing to the pressure already on public services by limiting immigration.

*its you're not your

[Shinebright72]

I don’t think anybody should be sent anywhere to be honest. They are your words not mine.

@Shinebright72 was your comment aimed at me? I don't share my political views on social media, hence my previous comment about how exercising your freedom of speech can be used against you. I didn't comment on the benefit / housing situation, yet you presume I have a problem with that. I don't. Schools are over populated in my area due do to an influx of European immigrants. We either need more schools or less immigration. That's my lived experience. That doesn't make me racist, in fact, it has nothing at all so do with race, so why should it cause conflict? I won't be commenting further on my own views as it's not my thread. I'm just pointing out that people voting Brexit doesn't automatically make them racist. That's said, they might well be racist....that's why OP should say exactly what was posted.

Yes u did say immigrants actually.

Concentrate on “yours” not “they”.

The conflict comment was aimed at OP and also maybe she should flaunt her business and views all over SM. Or put it in private at least. Don’t bother replying as I’m going to hide the thread.

I cannot stand these ignorant one sided views that speak about foreign people when they should address their own and make them work it’s not about anybody being sent anywhere. How entitled. NOBODY suggested you share your views did they

[MLouise84]

@Shinebright72 read my comment again 🙄 I said I didn't refer to anyone as a 'foreigner'. Which I didn't.

Off course your comment was aimed at me....it's blatantly obvious.

I cannot stand these ignorant one sided views that speak about foreign people

....and this is EXACTLY what I mean when I say the left wing can't except anyone else's view.

[Hopoindown31]

The chances are that, although the content shared by your family and yourself may not have been explicitly racist it may have been posted by groups with links to far right views. Many of the pro-forces posts that I see from others on my FB timeline are actually originally posted by groups either set up by or with links to far right groups like the EDL or Britain First.

Again, whilst posting pro-Brexit views is not racist, a significant amount of the pro-Brexit material shared in my timeline was either originated by similar groups or actually was racist in content.

Sharing such posts appears to be enough in today's society to demonstrate that you may have sympathies with the groups that posted them. Family courts and social workers tend to take a very cautious approach to this.

That said, almost every breixteer I am friends with on Facebook with has shared clearly racist content at least once that I have seen and usually more than once. They just don't see it as racist. There is a deluge of reactionary bullshit on my timeline at the moment by people who should know better and I hope it doesn't come back to bite them. The joys of being from a working class white northern town!

The long and short of it is, be careful when sharing stuff on social media that you know where it is coming from and actually really think about the views you are expressing.

[Haffiana]

Schools are over populated in my area due do to an influx of European immigrants. We either need more schools or less immigration. That's my lived experience. That doesn't make me racist, in fact, it has nothing at all so do with race, so why should it cause conflict?

Fuck me. The deluded posters arguing that they are not racist are actually just -racist.

OP - if your facebook is similar to the above sort of racist bile then I wouldn't let my kids near you either.

[MLouise84]

@Haffiana why is it racist? I'm staying a fact. I'm making that judgement based on the fact that we're over populated. It's wouldn't matter what race they were. So is everyone who doesn't agree with free movement racist? Even though the basis of those opinions have nothing to do with race?

....this is exactly what happens when you try to exercise your freedom of speech and it's probably what's happened to the OP.

[ErickBroch]

There is definitely more to it than you want to admit on here. If you are regularly sharing things from Britain First and the EDL, for example, then they are right to be concerned. I would be the same. I don't buy your narrative as it is. Social services advising him to move out if he wants to see his kids? Because you voted brexit?

[Hopoindown31]

@MLouise84

The problem with stating that the UK is "overpopulated" is that there is no universally accepted definition of what that means. It isn't a fact at all, just an opinion upon which you hang other opinions. I mean, exactly what is the "right" population for the UK?

I think it is amazing that after a decade of austerity people are still prepared to blame immigrants for the lack of public service provision rather than the massive swingeing cuts made to them by their own elected governments. That is deeply ingrained xenophobia.

[800caloriesofwine]

@MLouise84 I live in the inner city of one the UK's largest city's. My daughter has 10 kids in her primary school class. My mum lives in the sticks and the school she works at is oversubscribed ten times over. That's not immigrants, that's fussy white British people who are phobic of their kids going to an inner city comp so all moving en masse to the countryside and trying to get into an outstanding primary.
I work in the NHS and if we just employed the British people who applied the system would collapse. That is a fact! Last time we advertised for a housekeeping post we had two applicants, one Somali, one Spanish. The British job seekers hadn't even read the small print which said it was £14 on Saturday and £18 on a Sunday. I'm sorry I have no patience for the whole 'our NHS can't cope' argument! The fact is that most European job seekers tend to be younger and healthier than brits, less likely to claim benefits and more likely to become net contributors than Brits. I don't think your argument stands up.

[800caloriesofwine]

And yes I am the proud child of an immigrant and have had to listen to this shit for my whole life. Mainly by those who are out of work and not looking, or Will very soon be in a care home staffed by, you guessed it, immigrants!

[funnylittlefloozie]

You know there are quite a lot of Conservative voters opposed to Brexit, and quite a lot of Labour voters in favour of it - just being Remain doesnt make you left-wing.

[NoMoreHandgel]

There is definitely more to this than your post reveals. This decision would not have been made if it were only due to him voting to leave the EU. Do you honestly know of any social media posts and comments that have been made / shared by you and your family which could be described as racist, or insensitive, particularly at this moment in time, and especially given that your step children are mixed race? You describe your family as loud and drinkers, connected with the military- at any of these get togethers might a mixed race child have been made to feel uncomfortable or might anyone listening in have heard something inappropriate?