Should i give exdp £18k?

[Winniethepooer]

Very basically exdp & i split up 3 months ago.

He had paid for work to be done on my house. It cost about £23k. I paid £5k. He paid the balance.

He now wants his money back to set up his new life.

I sort of agree but i don't have that sort of money.

I offered half. He said no.

What is fair?

We had a hideous breakup so things are still very difficult. If i had the money i would pay him off just to not deal with him!

Wwyd?

[aginghippy]

My priority is keeping my house Good! Those 4 dc need a roof over their heads and clearly their father has not and will not be providing this (or clothes or food ...) for them.

You say he has plenty of savings, yet you are considering taking out a loan in your name in order to pay him to go away. That sounds crazy. I'm with your sister, he has been sponging off you for years.

He probably doesn't have a claim on the house, but please do see a solicitor for advice and to give you peace of mind.

[Winniethepooer]

Thanks I have an appointment next Friday to see a solicitor.

I really feel i should give him some of the £18k back.

I have no one to talk this through with in RL do i find it very difficult to be objective.

[pheebo]

He sounds fucking delightful 😳
I doubt he is going to voluntarily contribute to his children's upbringing so I'd be telling him to sling it

[whatsmyname2017]

Please just go and see a solicitor. I am having major problems with my stbxp too but unfortunately we jointly own our home.
My solicitor has offered an hour consultation for £100 where they will put everything in writing for me so I can show him when he questions things. Its a small price for you to pay.
You xp could potentially take you to court but the fact he paid very little to you in 18 years would definitely go in your favour. At best, the courts might award him a small amount but I doubt it would be anywhere near that figure.
I suppose I see his point a little bit, but not paying his way cancels that our in my opinion. I think offering him a small lump sum is more than fair and if he doesn't accept it, tell him to see a solicitor.

[DixieFlatline]

I think offering him a small lump sum is more than fair and if he doesn't accept it, tell him to see a solicitor.

He is sitting on savings and paying nothing towards the upkeep of his children because he doesn't have a job. There is no telling when or if he might get a job and start contributing. The OP should pay nothing, offer nothing and say the bare minimum about it.

[whatsmyname2017]

That's why I said 'Please just go and see a solicitor'.

[ImperialBlether]

Why don't you say, "You had an easy ride living here and just paying £600 per month, keeping the rest for yourself, even though at times I was really struggling. Now even though you're not paying a penny for our four children's care, you want me to find thousands for you? I can give you enough for a month's rent and a month's deposit on a house (if this is why he wants it) but after that you're on your own. Maybe if I was getting some money off you for the children, things would be different."

And make sure you look up on the child support calculator exactly how much he should be giving you if he was now back in work, earning what he did.

[paperbattles]

Don't worry that you are going to lose your home - you are not. There are special provisions regarding children staying in their home and having a roof over their head. So even if your exDP is found to have an equitable interest in the house he cannot force you to sell because of the DC. But you must get proper legal guidance on this point.
Legally the house finances are considered separately from those of the DC which seems morally unfair when he has not contributed to the DC.
I suggest you list everything you have paid for, both for the house and children (boring I know) so the solicitor can give really good guidance. (Also such things as did he leave, or did you ask him to? Did he take a set of keys? Do not allow him in the house if you don't want to. All evidence points to it being your house not partly his)
Practically I think your exDP is bullying you into it, and I would stand your ground, you have a strong legal and practical position.

[JK1773]

You are being given wrong advice on here. Go see a solicitor. You are not married so you do not have the same rights. The fact you have DC is irrelevant legally due to your unmarried status. I'm a solicitor myself. He is likely to have a capital claim against the house. Best bet is to try to negotiate a smaller amount. We only advise on the law, not make it. Unfortunately what is morally right is not the same as what is legally right in situations like this

[paperbattles]

Sorry to disagree JK1773 but the rights of children to have their home are separate from marital property rights. The OP could be looking at Mesher Orders etc. Unmarried parents are certainly protected, and the OP would like reassurance she will not lose her house now.
It is also important to point out the practicality of the ExDP actually going to court.
What is morally right is relevant given that a number of posters are making the moral case about fairness to the OP. My point is that what is morally and legally right is not the same. The ExDP may be putting moral (emotional/fairness) and legal pressure on the OP. The OP needs to know the difference and respond accordingly.
As I am sure you appreciate JK1773 negotiations are not about strict legal argument but a mix of legal, practical, moral and emotional considerations. If we can help the OP to understand her overall position then that is helpful.
Fundamentally I wish to reassure her that she does not need to worry unnecessarily.

[JK1773]

Paperbattles. How do you say an unmarried parent can apply for a mesher order? I agree they could negotiate an arrangement like that. He's made a one off significant capital contribution he can prove. I know there are Children Act claims that can be made on behalf of children but I would struggle to advise that would be appropriate here if he pushed it. He can make a TLATA claim. I don't want to argue with you at all but I am interested to know what application could be made for what you suggest (of course court it to be avoided).

[Desmondo2016]

I wouldn't be doing anything. Tell hi. You don't have it and that it was given in good faith and please don't ask again.

Then if he does take it legal you may need to change the approach.

But for now id make him swivel.

[innagazing]

Jk1773
You do realise that the house belongs to her and was bought before they were together, and they only fairly recently moved into it?

[JK1773]

Yes of course I do. And I also realise that he has recently invested £18k that he can prove. I'm not trying to be awful but the law is the law and OP needs to arm herself for a hard negotiation knowing her worst case scenario. He's not entitled to her home but he's a strong case for his investment back. If that went to court arguments about the fact he hasn't contributed day to day and that they have DC are totally irrelevant because they're not married. I'm sorry but in this situation the law is an ass

[Winniethepooer]

I am thinking like Jk is saying.
The fact exdp was a tight arse isn't relevant now. I was stupid to put up with him.

I don't know what is reasonable to offer exdp. I have an appointment to see a solicitor next week so will wait and see what she says.

[JK1773]

Yes take advice OP from your solicitor. I wasn't meaning to upset you at all but I want you to have correct advice. I see people in your situation regularly and they often have high expectations because of DC and they all know someone who knows someone ..... (you know what I mean). Hopefully your lawyer will negotiate hard and settle it out of court to keep it as low as possible. I wish you the very best of luck with it

[paperbattles]

Much as a relish a legal challenge JK1773 on legal cases I think we are ultimately saying the same thing to the OP. A detailed legal discussion would not be helpful to her. I mean to give practical suggestions as to what to prepare for evidence before her solicitor's appointment, giving an idea of what law she will encounter and relevant facts. Much more helpful to have the evidence in order before the first consultation. We cannot know all the circumstances obviously, and trust cases in particular are very difficult to prove. A good solicitor should be able to use their skills to defend the OP strongly against a claim, and use the practical situation that he is unlikely to go to court to help the OP.
How the OP feels emotionally and morally about giving her exDP the money is separate but clearly in her mind. I would push back hard against any bullying or emotional blackmail.
I agree not to give the exDP any money until the OP has proper advice.
Giving reassurance to the OP is helpful that there are various legal options open to her, and hurdles for her exDP, before she should panic or pay any money over if she doesn't wish to. Good luck to the OP, and be strong.

[SoulAccount]

Thank goodness you are not married, OP.

But even if you were he wouldn't be entitled to a full half of the house if you are housing 4 kids.

Seek some legal advice to establish how strong his claim would be.

Go to the appointment well prepared;
Dates and documents
Bank statements and mortgage statement showing who paid
Dates of the £18k and any record at all of communication between you about that.
Any evidence you have of his savings

Are all the children his?

[Winniethepooer]

Yes all dc are exdp dc.

I don't have any of his paperwork but will bring my own.

I have no paperwork relating to tbe £18k.

I will wait and see what the solicitor advises...

[MrsBertBibby]

Disagree with JK1773. In cases where it is claimed that an indirect contribution to the asset (paying for works) should result in a beneficial interest, he doesn't just have to show his contribution, he has to show that you both agreed that this would result in him having ano interest. McFarlane v McFarlane, which flows right down to Oxley v Hiscock.

OP this area is a legal minefield. Don't give him a penny or put anything in writing. Get decent advice. I suggest you consider getting Counsel's advice, Luke Barnes at 3 Dr Johnsons chambers is very strong on this murky area.