My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

My baby and the Other Woman

101 replies

Hubnut · 12/05/2016 22:35

I found out partner of ten years was cheating 4 weeks ago. He'd known her all of 6 weeks (I found his emails to her). I kicked him out and he's living with her. We have an 18 month old baby together. He wants access this Sunday. I'm sickened at the thought of him taking our child to see his girlfriend. I've asked him not to - he says he wont but clearly he's completely untrustworthy. This is worsened by the fact that me and this other woman exchanged a series of very unpleasant texts as I found her number on his phone. I have this fear that she might pinch him, be mean to him when his dad isn't looking just to spite me :-(

He says she's a nice person but that's not been my experience and really he's only know her for a couple of months. She does have a teenage daughter, but that doesn't qualify you as a nice person does it?

The whole situation has been a nightmare of me lurching from sad, angry, positive. I now have this anxious feeling in my stomach about possibility of this woman being with my baby.

Any help or advice?

OP posts:
Report
MusicIsMedicine · 14/05/2016 22:07

One is perfectly entitled to restrict or refuse contact or refuse consent to contact with third parties present or to set conditions, if they have safeguarding concerns for their child.

Indeed to ignore any concerns, on the grounds of 'equality' is remiss and not in the child's best interests.

Report
Fourormore · 14/05/2016 22:10

What are the safeguarding concerns in this situation?

Report
DaveCamoron · 14/05/2016 22:10

Music you are taking bollocks.

Report
MusicIsMedicine · 14/05/2016 22:13

I didn't say there were any safeguarding concerns in this specific situation - that's for the OP to determine.

My point is hypothetical.

Cue all those with a personal bias leaping to disagree.

Report
Fourormore · 14/05/2016 22:21

No, just seems odd to bring up setting restrictions for safeguarding on a thread where there are no safeguarding concerns.

Report
Baconyum · 14/05/2016 22:25

Been there...

My ex was (is) a total arse regarding contact. He wanted to introduce dd to the ow the weekend after I kicked him out! To say I was unhappy is a massive understatement and it wasn't because of the situation but because I didn't know her at all and he barely knew her.

Where I was lucky was she agreed with me! It was him pushing. Long story short we ended up in court (lots of reasons not just this, this was a minor issue but still needed addressed).

Judge agreed and it was even put in the contact order that dd not to meet ow until 6 months post split, dd was not to witness PDA beyond friendliness initially (so she could gradually get used to 'daddys new friend') and I was allowed to meet ow prior to her meeting dd. Ow (disregarding morality issues - she knew ex was married with a young child but he'd spun her the 'my wife doesn't understand me, we don't sleep together' bullshit and she fell for it) was and is as far as dd concerned, lovely. Shame dd's dad can't be half as nice!

Report
Piwi1625 · 15/05/2016 09:04

6 weeks is not long at all to know someone fully. I would have allowed him to see the child at my home rather than at hers, especially since she's had the audacity to be hostile to you after they are in the wrong!

Report
Marilynsbigsister · 15/05/2016 09:18

Music, do you get up especially early to invent such complete and utter bollocks ?

My DH (with me supporting) have spent the last decade in and out of the family courts. (Obviously I do not go in for the actual hearings as it is quite rightly inappropriate for me to do so).

There are some horrendous inaccuracies on this thread about 'parental rights and responsibilities' and even more nonsense written about what 'mothers can do/dictate/demand'

  1. The most important issue is for everyone to understand is that a solicitors letter is not the law.

Letters can be sent, demands can be made, but until the matter has been ordered by a family court judge, then it can be ignored.

  1. Mothers do not have the 'top trump' on dictating contact. As already explained, unless the non resident parent is applying for 50/50 contact, the 'norm' is EOW and one evening in the week. The first step to agreeing anything that cannot be agreed privately is to attend mediation. This is a requirement of the court process. It can be bypassed if there are issues of abuse or if the 'respondent' (normally the resident parent) refuses to attend.


  1. If an agreement can be reached in mediation, the agreement is sent to the court to be 'ordered'. This then becomes the agreement that both parties need to adhere to.

If either party at mediation wants 'conditions' in the agreement that another party does not agree to. (Such as not meeting new partners etc) Then the matter will go forward to a court hearing.

  1. The court hearing will examine any reasons for conditions to be attached to contact. This can (and does ) often involve the hearing being adjourned whilst specialist court social workers (CAFCAS) are appointed to represent the children's best interests. They will visit the child/rent whilst they are with both parents (individually) and write reports to the court. If age appropriate they will speak to the children alone. The matter will return to the court for a Judge to make a decision based on the facts.


An order will be made based on the best interests of the child. The Judge has absolutely no interest in parental squabbles, upset or jealousy. The 'moral' does not come into it. A judge will only make an order that the Non resident parent cannot do something (i.e. spend time with dcs and girlfriend/friends/grandparents/whatever ) if there is good reason, shown to the court at the hearing, that to do so would be detrimental to the child. If there is no such proof, the conditions will not be attached.

A mother can indeed stop a father from seeing his child. That may or may not be an appropriate thing to do, depending on the circumstances but it is only a temporary state of affairs. Once the matter has been ordered by the court, to disregard the order is against the law and can ultimately have horrendous consequences.
I will not go into great detail, but having been through 'mother gets to say when her children see their dad' - The courts lost patience and awarded us full custody. This was also the DSC wish. Using ones children as a weapon against your ex, is a very very dangerous game.

Be very sure, before you make any decisions, that you are behaving in the best interests of your child and are encouraging a full and happy relationship with their other parent, if it is safe for them to do so. No matter how you feel about your ex. This way you can avoid the stress and upset of court.
A judge will always look for a way for the child to have an affective relationship with both parents if safe to do so.
Do not confuse the morality of his behaviour (which we can all agree is appalling) with the legalities of his 'parental rights' and your child's rights to a father. They are very different things.
Report
YoureSoSlyButSoAmI · 15/05/2016 09:32

I would be making as damn sure as I could that my baby never got within 50 yards of the dirty slut and if that meant limiting contact between him and the baby then so be it.

Report
Hubnut · 15/05/2016 17:56

Put legal issues aside. Assume I want my child to see father (which I absolutely do)...

I simply don't think 10 weeks is long enough to justify an introduction to ex's girlfriend. They were seeing each other at lunchtimes for six of those weeks, then have been forced to live together cos I kicked him out.

I'm sticking to my guns and he has accepted my wishes today. Let's hope he continues to do so until everything stabilises.

Thanks for all the advice!

OP posts:
Report
MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 15/05/2016 18:07

Great post there marilyn

Report
fastdaytears · 15/05/2016 18:11

baby never got within 50 yards of the dirty slut

Baby much more likely to be damaged by hearing women described as dirty sluts IMO.

But leaving that aside, you mean never? So your baby would never meet its father's partner?

Report
pocketsaviour · 15/05/2016 18:13

Quite why people are defending his perceived rights or his OW's right to be present with your 18 month old child is beyond me. She has no rights whatsoever to be around your child, without your explicit knowledge and consent.

I'm sorry but this is just fantasy.

OP if you are really that concerned then you CAN stop contact, in the absence of a contact arrangement being in place. However you will then look like a vindictive idiot who has used your child to control your ex's life (not saying you are, that's just how it would look in court) and you're then much less likely to get the outcome you want.

Your ex is this baby's dad and has parental responsibility. While he has the baby he can introduce her to anyone he likes. It might not be the sensible or moral thing to do, but it's the law.

Report
DinosaursRoar · 15/05/2016 18:19

He'd known her for a grand total of 6 weeks and she let him move in with her and her DC before her DC even got a chance to meet him?! She makes terrible parenting decisions and her judgement can't be trusted at all, he could be anyone - her poor DD!

But more importantly, where the fuck is his judgement by agreeing to move in?! He knew she lives with her child, whom he'd never met and he just moved in, without saying "no, that's not fair on your daughter, she doesn't know me, I'll sort something else out until we've had chance to get to know each other better."

He wasn't "forced" to move in with her 4 weeks ago, I'm presuming there are hotels in your town, he has friends, there are flats for rent. It was easist to move in with her, there were many, many other options that didn't involve moving in with a woman he barely knows and a child he doesn't know at all, upsetting the child's life.

Both of them have shown they will put what's easiest above not only other relationships already going on, but what's best for the various children involved.

Tread carefully. You aren't dealing with people thinking about what's best for the children, but themselves.

Report
MusicIsMedicine · 15/05/2016 19:28

There's a huge degree of misinformation and bias and aggression here, particularly from people involved in contact battles.

OP, if you have any concerns whatsoever about your child's safety or them being around your ex or someone your ex has only known for six weeks, you are no obligation right now to facilitate unsupervised contact.

Nothing in law gives this OW any sort of rights at all over your child and she has no rights to contact with your child.

If you believe it to be in your child's best interests, you can stop contact at any time. There's no law that mandates you to facilitate contact if you believe that to do so would expose your child to any risk.

Use your instincts and don't be bullied by posters here. Your child's safety and wellbeing comes first.

Report
Fourormore · 15/05/2016 19:36

The child has a right to contact with the father. The family courts are not going to be impressed with a parent stopping contact with another parent because of a new partner where there are not any safeguarding concerns. The OP has not raised any safeguarding concerns.

What is in the child's best interests is that the parents make every possible effort to move forward as amicably as possible. That means putting aside the adult hurt and focusing on the child's relationship with each parent.

Report
MusicIsMedicine · 15/05/2016 19:48

The child has one primary right above all others - the right to be protected.

Just because the OP hasn't raised concerns here does not mean there aren't any.

First and immediate priority is safety. Any doubt over that whatsoever and contact goes straight out the window.

Report
Fourormore · 15/05/2016 19:50

Right, and I'm sure that if the OP raised a genuine safety concern the advice would be different. Why are you bringing up safeguarding again when there are no apparent safeguarding concerns? Very strange.

Report
Kikibanana86 · 15/05/2016 19:55

I personally would say he sees the baby in your home until they've been together a lot longer. My ex never introduced his ex girlfriend to our kids and he was with her about 9 months, not only did he not want to but I also wouldn't have allowed it. Stand your ground you don't know this woman and neither does he. If he wants to go through the courts then let him.

Report
MusicIsMedicine · 15/05/2016 20:25

Bang on Kiki.

That's what posters here don't seem to grasp.

One doesn't need a glaringly obvious, defined safeguarding issue nor a shred of evidence of one.

A concern is enough.

If these posters claim they wouldn't be concerned about the safety of their 18 month old child, around a woman they have never met, whom the ex has known for all of 6 weeks and her teenager, and would simply hand over the child for unsupervised contact, they are deluding themselves and they are not in your shoes.

The OP IS concerned. She has every right to be. Why would she ignore that? She has never met this OW or her teenager. Her ex has only known them a matter of weeks. This woman has moved a strange man in with her and her teenager after 6 weeks.

OP, follow your instincts and do whatever you see fit to protect your child's safety and ignore the utter nonsense being spouted here about adults' rights. They have no bearing on your child's need for protection ABOVE ALL ELSE.

Report
DinosaursRoar · 15/05/2016 20:35

The courts will take a dim view of a mother blocking all contact, but as his housing situation can't be seen as stable yet (I bet he's not changed where he's registered to vote, told work, changed his driving licence/bank account/credit card/phone contract etc to that address), there's no reason to view this any differently as if he was kipping in a mate's spare room, and so the contact doesn't need to be at his address or overnight.

Report
MusicIsMedicine · 15/05/2016 20:42

No yhey won't. A mother acting in what she believes is her child's best interest is doing wrong whatsoever.

Who are you to talk for the Court?

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

MusicIsMedicine · 15/05/2016 20:43

Kipping in a mate's room?!

Have you listened to yourself?!

Report
Fourormore · 15/05/2016 21:01

Actually my exH met someone and had her pregnant very, very quickly. My baby was younger than this. I was distraught and furious.

I also trusted him as a father. His time with our children didn't need to suddenly be supervised. He made some stupid mistakes and some silly decisions. He was still a good father. I trusted that he wouldn't put our children at actual risk of harm. He still is a good father. We have a great co-parenting relationship and I am proud of the fact that we managed to achieve that for our children.

A "concern" is not always enough. An overly "concerned" mother can wind up in all kinds of trouble if she doesn't listen to reason, especially if she doesn't have "a shred of evidence".

You seem to be implying that anyone that disagrees with you has some kind of agenda and yet you seem to be pushing a pretty heavy handed one of your own.

Report
Couldashouldawoulda · 15/05/2016 21:01

I understand exactly where you're coming from, OP. If I was you, I think I'd text him and gently but firmly move the goalposts. You could say that your DD seems really unsettled at the moment (no doubt true), and unfortunately you don't think she's ready for contact away from home yet. She'd be far happier and more comfortable in her own environment. Then say that, thinking it over, you'd like him to come to your house to see her for a while, until she gets used to the new situation. Remind him that you can make yourself scarce (upstairs? She's so small.) whilst they hang out. Possibly encourage him by pointing out that he may have tantrums to contend with if you don't both make this as easy for her as possible!

You should be seen to behave reasonably by offering to facilitate contact, but without a court order it certainly doesn't have to be on his terms. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him not to introduce her to OW, otherwise. HTH.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.