There are not enough nice blokes to go round.

[dontcallmethatyoucunt]

That is my conclusion from reading threads on here.

Personally I'd rather be only own than carry some dead weight, mean spirited lazy shit, but that's me.

I sometimes wonder if some of the utter scum bags that are regularly featured on here, would up their game if their bad behaviour wasn't tolerated? Who knows, but bloody hell, I wish we tested the shit out of that.

I'm not sure why I'm posting, I'll no doubt be flamed for seeing things as too black and white, but I suppose I wish that more women would just treat themselves better and kick these idiots to the kerb. Single ain't so bad.

Oh and no I'm not single at the moment (so easy for me to say), but I have spent long periods of my life single (and happy).

[Justaboy]

lorelei9 Yes interesting you should say that, suppose the perfect relationship just doesn't exist for the vast majority, perhaps we accept as much as what we can till it all boils up and over?.

As to strong women on here same as good women on here! I don't think any of you have wanted or asked for anything out of the ordinary or the unusual, you just all it seems what a decent bloke plain and simple!

And yes MN or on-line reality is a degree or so removed from the real thing but interesting posts all the same.

[lorelei9]

I thought is wandered on to another planet when I came to MN. I hope these people get divorced eventually. In many threads it's screamingly obvious that both are unhappy.

I sometimes wonder if a certain level of unhappiness is inevitable with constant compromise.

[dontcallmethatyoucunt]

I love the strong women on here! It's is so depressing reading some threads, it's great to read something

[lorelei9]

I'm 40, friends range in ages. Most of the couples I am close to, the men are pulling their weight; if not, the relationship was over PDQ.

I don't find MN a reflection of real life in that way. Then again, I'm not likely to make friends with someone who is so desperate for a relationship they will put up with anything. Interestingly the only friend I had who did that was a SAHM. Kids are grown but she's the type of woman who won't do anything for herself. Her husband isn't abusive but he is the kind of moany git who can put a downer on a sunny day.

With hindsight I don't know how I made friends with her - she has no sense of "self".

[PitPatKitKat]

Kind of both agree and disagree.

There are a lot of horrible guys out there. I think a lot of the real dicks are very visible because they kind of get around a lot? So a lot of people encounter them, especially OLD and the stories spread. The nice ones on OLD go on a few dates and meet someone, settle down, seen no more.

And I think it is still true as BoBo says that some men haven't caught up with the stronger negotiating position women have now, I think it also true that some women aren't in a strong position still, and the arseholes actively seek them out. But the real thing is to avoid the ones who view intimate relationships as being about "negotiating positions" rather than love, kindness, gentleness, understanding etc.

But there are also a lot of nice guys who are overlooked. For a variety of reasons. There was a point last year I knew five or six nice single guys, but knew no single women to introduce them to.

The thing they all had in common was that they wouldn't dream of OLD. Because it seems too harsh, cold, transactional to them. They were all maybe a little shy or gentle themselves and wouldn't subject themselves to that battlefield in a million years.

[SauvignonPlonker]

I agree, OP. I'm mid-40's and the blokes who pull their weight at home are the exception rather than the rule amongst my circle of friends (all degree-educated in our late 30's onwards).

It's just utterly depressing. I really feel our generation has been screwed over. Having it all generally means doing it all yourself.

The men my age who are single are that for a very good reason.

[Sum314]

it's called having nowhere to go and no money when you get there. fishfingers i agree with you wrt changes to the welfare having terrible consequences, trapping women.

[Justaboy]

fishfingersinmysandwiches Boiling frog syndrome they call that urgh!.

lorelei9 Yes I believe i saw you comment on your low tolerance levels elsewhere so not problemo!.

[BoboChic]

earn

[BoboChic]

The ability to eat their own money is not the only improvement in negotiating position for women. Education and the ability to reason and debate are powerful tools in the home, not just the workplace.

[fishfingersinmysandwiches]

Bobo that is true for some women, but it is not true for all. Women who gave up careers to stay at home with children, or who had children young and so never had a career to start with (as I did), can find themselves just as financially dependant as any woman in the 1950's. Getting back out into the workplace with no real experience is very difficult, and try finding a job that you can fit around school times!

Things have not changed as much as we think they have. Of all the women I know who do work full time and are also wives and mothers, the vast majority still do most of the cooking, cleaning, and childcare. A significant minority still do all of the domestic work. I want to shake them. These are professional women - solicitors, financial advisors, business owners... - and yet they continue to do all the domestic drudgery simply because they have a vagina.

Many many women continue to put up with shite from men because their negotiating position leaves them as powerless as it might have done a hundred years ago. That's why I feel attacks made on the welfare state will have terrible consequences for women. It's the one real safety net a lot of women have.

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

Neither have lots of women.

[lorelei9]

Hotter, my male friends are lovely too. Or I'm biased!

[BoboChic]

In the past, men had - on average - a better hand of cards when negotiating a relationship than women did. Female emancipation has changed the relative negotiating position somewhat. Lots of men haven't caught up.

[fishfingersinmysandwiches]

I'm single and have been for years. As a result I look at some (most) of my friends relationships and just think, "Why? Why are you tolerating this bullshit?" And then I come on here and think the same thing.

But in reality I know why. Because it's a drip feed of bullshit. At the beginning of the relationship all seems rosy. And then a tiny bit of bullshit seeps in and you kind of... adjust. After all, everyone has to compromise. But before you know it, great avalanches of bullshit have built up over the years while you have contorted yourself adjusting. And you're in a place you never could have imagined yourself when the relationship began. Splitting is hard. It involves upheaval and upset. When there are joint finances and small children it can be harder still.

I often think I would like to meet somebody. But I also know that there is nothing worse than living in a bad relationship. Anyone who thinks I am worthless because I am single can fuck right off.

[Fckup]

I agree, I have been consistently happiest when I'm single but don't have the highs (and lows) of being in a relationship which I miss terribly. I don't think I'll risk it ever again though, my self esteem is too low.

[HotterWok]

All my male friends have good jobs, never cheat and spend a lot of time looking after children although quite a few of them have married foreign women and moved abroad now

[Trills]

I blame the patriarchy.

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

agreed OP

(though also agreed there are some bloody awful women out there).

I don't think people will improve though, at least not until the supply of partners who are willing to put up with bad treatment dries up.

I think, underneath it all, I'm a bit selfish. If I'm not getting something out of a relationship, something positive, I just think, fuck this I'm off. Which clearly means I'm not as nice, tolerant or giving.


That's just fine in my book. Why pour generosity and tolerance down into a worthless no-good who takes, takes takes and never gives back? It just means they think it's okay to carry on like that.

[lorelei9]

Justaboy, sorry if being dense but if your comments on being young were connected with my comment (which they may not be) then I've missed the connection. I've always had low tolerance. I suppose when I was younger I thought having a man around might be handy but now I don't know why. I think I just wasn't questioning societal norms which is odd because I knew I wasn't having kids so I wonder I didn't realise earlier that relationships were not a me thing.

I always feel like sun at this time of year but sadly you have to wait till jan 4th for prices to drop! I have holiday with friends in Feb though. It occurred to me I might even need to buy sun cream, exciting.

[Justaboy]

lorelei9 I can only suppose that when we're that bit older we're probably less tolerant of what we put up with when younger. We don't have that in lurve thang that's affecting our clearer thoughts?

Suppose its OK being single. I can manage with that OK, but sometimes it would be nice to have that someone special around to share things with, to do things with to spend time with to travel with, that would be great.

At the moment i could clear off to some sunnier clime right now!, anyone wanna come;?

[lorelei9]

I find relationships feel like a huge threat to my life and my security.

Going back to the thing about "nice" men - I do think they are about, but for any realtionship you've looking at a huge level of compatibility required, so them being kind and decent isn't even the half of it - unless you are the type of person to just follow someone else and be like them.

In the past I did think that perhaps I needed a nice bloke who was happy to be that type of partner but I wouldn't respect them. I also don't do the whole thing about someone else's family either. I think a companion - not a euphemism! - would be handy at pain int he butt times like Xmas or when you are away and neeed someone to keep an eye on your flat, but that's a just a mate.

I'm not good at dealing with someone else's moods either. One of many great things about living alone is that you can always be in a good mood and others can't spoil it. (This is not to say I'm Pollyanna, it's just my lifestyle makes me happy so I don't want someone spoiling it).

[Sum314]

I hope so! Waiting for that guy's friend

I know, i've had the feeling that being financially independent / not at all needy does intimidate some men. I'm hardly madonna. But you know what I mean. My last bf was a penniless artist and I was determined not to end up subsidising him. I did a bit. It ended a while later, for different reasons mind you.

[Elendon]

I'd like to be partnered with someone who has their own means of support in place. We both have our independence but meet up occasionally and go on holiday together. However, so far no takers. I would have thought that people of a certain age would enjoy their independence. But they just want to do the drudgery of domestic 'bliss'. I'm never getting into that ever again.

One day my handsome partner, who is feisty, intelligent, loving and independent, will come into my life.

[Sum314]

Yes, Lorelei, I worry I'm letting the single side down in recent months admitting to married friends that I'd like to meet somebody. I am still happy though. I'm not saying ''i'm unhappy so I want to meet somebody else to fix that'. But I think it was like maslou's triangle for me, the whole time I was getting back on my feet financially I couldn't even think about men or love or anything like that. I just needed security, and a future. Now I have sorted those basic things out I wonder about a relationship.