Can we have some support on 'why women don't leave?'

[Darcey2105]

About a year ago I heard about a campaign on twitter where women were holding up signs saying why they didn't leave their abusive partner. It was things like 'because he'd track me down and kill me', 'because I had no where to go' and 'because he slept in front of the door so I couldn't get out'.

The point of the campaign was to stop making the abuse the women's fault for putting up with it. The point is less, why don't women leave, more why won't abusive men let women leave. Or even, why don't men stop abusing women?

Reading that campaign made me feel so much better about myself. I've been on mumsnet loads, and every little thing I write hoards of people are telling me to leave that night.

I have left 3 times and been homeless twice, once with a 9month old baby, and once when pregnant with a little toddler. It was so unbelievably awful, that it was a welcome relief to get back into my own house.

My husband is still horrific, and I demand a divorce every night, but no way is he letting me go. I see the disgust on my friends faces when I tell them what he's like. But their disgust is for me not leaving. These are friends who saw when I was homeless before - where am I supposed to go when I've got a job to hold down and 2 toddlers to support?

This threat is less about what do I do, I'm now finally getting support through women's aid. But it's about people on hearing of the problem saying 'just leave'. It's not helpful, as it makes the woman feel wretched when she can't leave, as she thinks its her own fault.

Instead ask 'how can you arrange to get away from him?' It's a small difference, but it helps her work through exploring her options.

Is anyone with me here?

[HootyMcTooty]

I'm another one who often posts LTB in cases of abuse.

From my perspective, it doesn't come from a place of blaming a victim of abuse for not leaving already, or even expecting them to leave that minute. I know life is more complicated than that and nobody is going to just up sticks and walk away from an abusive relationship solely on the advice of strangers over the internet.

When I urge people to leave it's more to help plant the idea that leaving is an option even if not right away, and to help the poster realise they deserve more (often posters don't really see that by the time they're posting here because their partner has done such a number on them).

I hope you manage to get away.

[CRH2015]

Darcey, I completely agree with you that society focuses on the wrong thing. But if I were your friend or your sister I'd still advise you not to try and change the way an entire society (or societies) perceives a problem, but to turn your energies and your outrage towards your own situation.

Can you go to a refuge on a temporary basis? Can you go to the police and let them know you would feel unsafe and that you have asked repeatedly to end the marriage but that he won't ''allow it''? Is there anybody who could stay with you in your house while he is told that you are definitely going to proceed with divorce proceedings?

I hope that doesn't sound unsympathetic because oh boy, I am sympathetic, I have been in your shoes. It's just a warning not to get caught up investing too much energy caring about what society thinks when you have more power to change your own life than you do to change the way victims are blamed. It's wrong that victims are judged for not leaving. I agree. Fight that battle later.

[Darcey2105]

Wow - THIS is what I was looking for: everydayvictimblaming.com/discussions/why-doesnt-she-just-leave/

A brilliant article - saying men are the problem, and wouldn't it be great if the focus was on getting them to stop abusing women.

That is what I was trying to say all those months ago when I started that thread!

[beezlebop]

Darcey, you are so right. I am there now. Thanks for saying it xxx

[scallopsrgreat]

Darcey, as I read this thread I was going to post that article! Great minds! Read it this morning. It's so good. Really articulate.

Hope you are nearer to your goal

[SunshineBossaNova]

My DM never left my DSF despite him battering her, and now he's stopped she thinks he's some kind of saint.

It took me two seconds to decide to leave abusive XH after he threatened me with a hammer. For the second time... It took me nearly a year to actually leave.

I'm married to a lovely man who happens to be an alcoholic, and decided to leave in February. I'm leaving in a couple of months.

It's not as easy as 'just leave'. With my current non-abusive DH I was told to LTB 3 years ago, but only had the courage to say 'Enough!" in February.

to all going through this.

[didyouwritethe]

I think this thread should be stickied at the top of the Relationships topic, next to the "Right, listen up" sticky.

[Lweji]

Most of these women who scream, leave the bastard have never been in this situation. They just like to think they would have the balls to do it.

I don't know about most. Many don't necessarily tell in a thread where they come from. I don't always.
Those who have been there, will say LTB, but will also remind to be careful, to make escape plans. Because we know that while it's not our fault, and we shouldn't have to, often it's easier to just go than to make them go.

But I fully agree that the blame rests solely on the men (and some women) who won't let go.

I struggle to explain this about a friend to other people. :(

[Lweji]

In fact, I find it worse to tell women to kick their husbands out, when it's not very likely that they will actually leave willingly and it could be downright dangerous.

[scallopsrgreat]

I think often as well on these types of threads plenty of posters aren't actually directly saying LTB but trying to get the OP to reach that conclusion by herself. Give her those lightbulb moments. Give her the Weinstein she needs to leave.

Most of us want her to leave, but only have to do it once. For good.

"What annoys me is that the victim is expected to give up all her rights. Your being abused, now you need to leave your home, maybe your job and friends and take your children out of school. That's not right! It should be the criminal losing his rights!" Totally agree. There is a lack of provision for abused women and the lack of state intervention that allows the man to keep returning to the family home to abuse again. The state just aren't that serious about stopping DV otherwise they would be tackling and preventing the perpetrators behaviour. And they wouldn't by allowing DV shelters to be shutting

[scallopsrgreat]

Weinstein weapons that should say!

[TimidLividyetagain]

The leaving your life behind is the worst bit. Im now in a smaller expensive private rented house which took a year to find as im dss just now. My bed that i was used to the things i picked over the years my home is gone. He gets to live there in three bed house among my things in an area with a school my kids loved. Where my friends live. Im out and it still makes me angry. And i was helped by my family. But still there's a pull to my real home. And now he wont help with the kids. Ive gained safety but lost my home. It took me three years to go. Turns out he never tried to hurt himself or fight me to the death. He just was sad and hes coping fine. So i should have left years ago as i was scared what he'd do to himself or me if I went. Guilt about kids also kept me there. But they are happpy as im happpier nicer to them and he didn't do much with them anyway. Ltb helps but can't do it before you have detached enough and planned It.

[Vivacia]

What is the right advice?

[MorrisZapp]

Yes, what is the right advice?

If someone comes here and pours their heart out about the appalling abuse they're suffering and begs for advice, what should we say?

[didyouwritethe]

It's better if the OP is given a chance to say what she herself considers her options to be, and the pros and cons of each, rather than being shouted at.

[didyouwritethe]

Rather than giving "advice", it's better to say: "When I was in a similar situation - although obviously not exactly the same as yours - I found x, y and z helpful, and f, g, and h less helpful."

[Lweji]

Some people do tend to be somewhat impatient, but most women in abusive situations do tend to minimise the impact of the relationship and be afraid of what happens after leaving. Insisting on how bad the relationship, to keep reminding them that they can leave, and offering solutions to the process of leaving can only be a good thing.
They will leave when they are ready, but a pat on the back and just accepting when they don't want to leave (for the moment) is not very useful either.

[MorrisZapp]

What if the OP makes it clear she wants advice? Are those who haven't had similar circs in the past allowed to comment?

What if children are involved?

I haven't seen anybody shouting at an abuse victim, although if they come back time after time and nothing has changed, and children are in the middle of it, inevitably posters do lose patience.

What posters often want to hear is well maybe he'll change, it'll get better and you'll have the family life you want. But I don't think anybody can say that as we all know or at least suspect that it isn't the case.

So what are we left with? Ignoring the poster? I just don't know what words of support I could give that wouldn't betray my belief that they should end the relationship for the sanity of themselves and the well being of their children.

[fuzzywuzzy]

I think sometimes a person in an abusive relationship does need ot be told, leave this is not normal. Because a lot of the itme the person has been in that situation for so long they feel it's normal. I've seen so many women on ehre coming on and asking how to cope or deal with their partners wildly unreasoanble and uintenable behaviour, as if it is a small thing they're asking to help cope with.

Some women aren't ready to even accept the treatment they are on the receiving end of could be termed as abuse.

I think hearing it from others opens their eyes and is the beginning to understanding that what the are going thro is not reasonable or acceptable.

I do utterly agree with OP and PP tho, there should be something in place that removes the perpatrator, why should women and children (mostly) be the ones who are the ones made to suffer, to leave their homes and belongings and flee in the night like some kind of criminals. I've a firend who had ot leave her house and flee to a refuge with her baby, years later the bnaka are still chasing her for the default on the mortgage as her feckless ex didn't keep up the payments, she had to go bankrupt to get them off her back. Not acceptable.

I left an abusive marriage after a decade and two little children, I had to fight tooth and nail to keep my house and even then twatface face drained the joint accounts and took all the money from the mortage account, so I'm back to sqaure one re-paying the mortgage.

Yes it's worth being free of him, but why am I and my two children being punished again?

I have recently become friends with a woman who is being emotionally and financially abused by her husband, I suggested she syphon a little moeny away for a just in case fund, she said no her husband always gave her house keeping, this weekend she informed me he had stopped giving her any money.... I will support her whatever her decision, right now she just wants me there to talk to and be reassured that she's not being unreasonable or crazy.

[Joysmum]

I guess it's about stating possibilities and practicalities ready for the lightbulb moment.

In sharing your story if you can for others who read to see if they can draw out similarities and realise they aren't alone and there is hope.

In recognising its a process to get to the stage of LTB.

In not taking things personally when a person hasn't reached their lightbulb moment and understanding that some of what's been advised will have stuck and be drawn upon in future.

Lastly, there are loads of lurkers. This may be a thread started by one person but the people reading it may be take something from it too. This is something I've done myself re something that happened to me and I'll be forever grateful.

[didyouwritethe]

I think if you've never been in the situation yourself, it's important to show a bit of humility and say that. Kicking someone who is already down is not helpful.

[MorrisZapp]

Sorry I'm not being deliberately obtuse here but when you say 'stating possibilities and practicalities' do you mean discussing the practicalities of leaving the relationship?

How does that differ from saying you'd be better off out of this relationship?

[MorrisZapp]

What do you mean by kicking somebody when they're down? When people come here and describe abusive relationships they are given warmth and flowers as well as sympathy and advice. I haven't seen any kicking unless they become truly obtuse and even then it's done with relative kindness.

[Lweji]

Saying how you can leave the relationship is different and better compared to just saying leave.

Where do you go? How will you support yourself? What if he has made threats? How will the children react?

It is important that people understand why women stay to help them leave. Not to let them be and be abused, but to confront the fears and reassure them and help them to make a safe and realistic leaving plan.

[fuzzywuzzy]

IMO I don't think people offering advice need to have been in the situation themselves.

But offering practical advice is very helpful that's why I always do tend to post up the womens aid number, the rights of women number and suggest the freedom programme, but I guess the advice is always dependant on the stage the person's at.

My first lightbulb moment was when I posted up a thread in s&b and Cod was like errr hellloooo why is everyone ignoring that her husband is dictating to her what she should wear... I didn't LTB then but it was the start to acceptign that my feeligns were valid that twatface was not reasonable or acceptable behaving the way he was towards me in the smallest of things (in my mind) therefore I must be at least a bit right about the bigger things as well.