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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Relationships

The Abuser Profiles

242 replies

NettleTea · 29/12/2014 21:10

Just as a reference, and I lay no claims to this - it is all the work of the fabulous Lundy Bancroft and taken from his book 'Why Does he Do That' which is often recommended to read, and leads to the eureka moment

so many people dont seem to see the abuse. I didnt see the abuse. But this is the way he rolls..... (have had to split into individual posts as its too long......)

Abuser Profiles -- from Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft

"KEY POINTS TO REMEMBER"

"• Tremendous variation exists among abusive styles. Your abusive partner may be of a type I haven't encountered yet, but that doesn't make him any less real. Many men are mixtures of different aspects."

"• An abuser may change so much from day to day that he couldn't belong to any type. This style of abuser is so unpredictable that his partner can never make sense out of what she is living with."

"• An abuser of any type can have days when he turns loving, attentive, and thoughtful. At these times, you may feel that his problem has finally gone away and that the relationship will return to its rosy beginning. However, abuse always comes back eventually unless the abuser has dealt with his abusiveness."


MR. RIGHT

Mr. Right considers himself the ultimate authority on every subject under the sun; you might call him Mr. Always Right. He speaks with absolute certainty, brushing your opinions aside like annoying gnats. He seems to see the world as a huge classroom, in which he is the teacher and you are his student. He finds little of value in your thoughts or insights, so he seeks to empty out your head and fill it up with his jewels of brilliance. When Mr. Right sits in one of my groups for abusive, men, he often speaks of his partner as if she were in danger from her own idiocy and he needs to save her from herself. Mr. Right has difficulty speaking to his partner—or about her—without a ring of condescension in his voice. And in a conflict his arrogance gets even worse.

Mr. Right's superiority is a convenient way for him to get what he wants. When he and his partner are arguing about their conflicting desires, he turns it into a clash between Right and Wrong or between Intelligence and Stupidity. He ridicules and discredits her perspective so that he can escape dealing with it. Here is a conversation I had with a Mr. Right whom I worked with in one of my abuser groups:

BANCROFT: Pat, do you have any abusive behaviors to report from this past week?

PAT: Well, I did yell at Gwen once and called her bitch. We were fighting about money, as usual.

BANCROFT: What was Gwen's perspective in the argument?

PAT: She thinks money grows on trees.

BANCROFT: Gwen said that money grows on trees?

PAT: Well no, not just like that. But that's how she acts.

BANCROFT: Let's try again. What was she saying in the argument?

PAT: She thinks we have enough money to get both of the children whole new sets of clothes. But we just bought all new stuff for them only a few weeks ago. And we just don't have it in the bank right now.

BANCROFT: Does Gwen agree that the last round of shopping was only a few weeks ago?

PAT: No, she says it was four months ago, at the beginning of the summer, which is a crock. I can remember that the summer was more than half over.

BANCROFT: So her memory is different from yours. Did she say why she thinks it was earlier?

PAT: Of course not, she's…Well, maybe she said something about how she remembers she paid the credit card bill for those clothes while the children were still in school. But she's wrong.

BANCROFT: Now, you said that the money simply isn't there. Gwen obviously thinks differently. Where does she think the money should come from?

PAT: I already told you, she wants me to be a magician who can just make it appear.

BANCROFT: But she must have been making points about it. What was she saying?

PAT: Oh, I don't know…She says we should sell our car and get a shit box, which would just end up costing us more in the long run, plus I don't want to deal with it.

BANCROFT: What do you drive now?

PAT: A Saab.

BANCROFT: Let me guess. She would like to trade the Saab in on a reliable car that has lower monthly payments, cheaper parts, and fewer repair bills.

PAT: Yeah, that's what I said, a shit box.

What Pat revealed in this exchange was that each time Gwen attempts to stand up for herself or put forth her views, he twists her statements to make them sound absurd. Notice how long it took me to drag out of him what Gwen's opinions actually were. Gwen naturally came out feeling stifled by Pat, as there was nothing she could do to get her views heard and taken seriously. Part of why Pat is convinced that Gwen is stupid is that he is so exaggeratedly certain of his own wisdom and clarity. Since she continues to disagree with him, he takes that as proof of her foolishness.

When Mr. Right decides to take control of a conversation, he switches into his Voice of Truth, giving the definitive pronouncement on what is the correct answer or the proper outlook. Abuse counselors call this tactic defining reality. Over time, his tone of authority can cause his partner to doubt her own judgment and come to see herself as not very bright. I notice how often I am speaking with the intelligent-sounding partner of one of my clients, only to have her say to me: I'm not that smart. The abuser wants her to doubt her mental abilities in this way, so that he can control her better.

Besides knowing all about the world, Mr. Right is also an expert on your life and how you should live it. He has the answers to your conflicts at work, how you should spend your time, and how you should raise your children. He is especially knowledgeable about your faults, and he likes to inventory what is wrong with you, as if tearing you down were the way to improve you. He may seem to enjoy periodically straightening you out in front of other people to humiliate you, thereby establishing his unquestionable intellectual superiority. When Mr. Right's partner refuses to defer to his sophisticated knowledge, he is likely to escalate to insulting her, calling her names, or mocking her with imitation. If he's still not satisfied that he has brought her down low enough, he may reach for bigger guns, such as ruining evening plans, leaving places without her, or saying bad things about her to other people. If he is physically assaultive, then this is the time he may throw things, raise fists, or attack violently. In short, Mr. Right finds some way to ensure that his partner regrets her insistence on having her own mind.

Mr. Right in some respects is a less violent and frightening version of the Drill Sergeant (see p. 86), but Mr. Right's control tends to be especially focused on telling his partner how to think. His partner feels suffocated by his control, as if he were watching her every move under a microscope.

Mr. Right tries to sanitize his bullying by telling me, I have strong opinions or I like debating ideas. This is like a bank robber saying, I'm interested in financial issues. Mr. Right isn't interested in debating ideas; he wants to impose his own.

The central attitudes driving Mr. Right are:

• You should be in awe of my intelligence and should look up to me intellectually. I know better than you do, even about what's good for you.

• Your opinions aren't worth listening to carefully or taking seriously.

• The fact that you sometimes disagree with me shows how sloppy your thinking is.

• If you would just accept that I know what's right, our relationship would go much better. Your own life would go better, too.

• When you disagree with me about something, no matter how respectfully or meekly, that's mistreatment of me.

• If I put you down for long enough, some day you'll see

OP posts:
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Vivacia · 30/12/2014 09:03

I uncomfortable with the author's work being shared without permission.

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CuttedUpPear · 30/12/2014 09:09

Thank you for posting this OP.

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inflagrantedelicto · 30/12/2014 09:10

Wow, I have heard of this book, and am going to buy it case based on what I've just read. I escaped 5 years ago, and have completed to freedom programme, but have to deal with xh over contact and he has now switched to abusing my dc, ss ignore and gloss over it. Would be really interesting to see him on a web chat too.

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Joysmum · 30/12/2014 09:18

Really glad the author gives permission for this to be reproduced. Such great information in there about how nice abusers can be and the tactics the use to get you to doubt yourself.

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BeccaMumsnet · 04/03/2015 17:44

Hi everyone - We've heard back from the OP and they have permission from Lundy Bancroft to post this, so we've reinstated the thread.

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NettleTea · 04/03/2015 18:32

A very kind and generous man!
It would be great if it could be stickied - perhaps an onslaught of requests might do it

OP posts:
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Firecrest · 04/03/2015 21:24

Married to a Drill Sergeant. He's not living here currently and I'm hoping this will be permanent. He ruled my life for 20 years. I've been terrorised and convinced I was crazy, bad and wrong in every way. How the hell I recover from this I don't know.

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GallicIsCharlie · 06/03/2015 21:39

Bumped and reported for a 'sticky' request :) Thank you, NettleTea & Lundy Bancroft.

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greenberet · 08/03/2015 21:08

bumping up - great idea!

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BlackeyedSusan · 08/03/2015 22:52

I have bought one of his books because of quotations like this. He is really helpful.

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DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 09/03/2015 08:28

Teach this to boys as well, with the strapline "Real Men Don't Do This".

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pnutter · 09/03/2015 09:13

Very good post op. I'm doing the freedom programme at the moment and have been given a book -living with the dominator by Pat Craven (who wrote the freedom programme) it's the same kind of thing as Lundy. Not sure if it's available on line or to buy.

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AlternativeTentacles · 09/03/2015 09:28

Could we sticky this please?

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GallicGarlic · 17/03/2015 10:27

Bump!

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ouryve · 17/03/2015 10:48

Wow! That's quite illuminating.

Ex was Mr Right with a touch of victim and a tendency to paranoid ramblings and conveniently timed suicide threats.

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Onesugar · 17/03/2015 12:02

Wow! eye-opening!

I was with a mixture of water-boarder/ player. It was odd as I couldn't quite pin anything down. It was as if I was the crazy one.

Thanks Nettle

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Onesugar · 17/03/2015 12:04

*Water TORTURER

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helpmekeepstrong · 17/03/2015 14:24

That's made me shiver. Rambo, Terrorist, Demand and very Drill. Quite a package and I'm glad to be out alive. Thanks Nettle... I was admiring an old photo of him last night and wondering if things had really been that bad.... loneliness plays strange tricks.... it's good to make myself remember what the reality was.

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Sevendayitch · 17/03/2015 21:06

It is now available on Kindle. I bought it a few days ago :)

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greenberet · 19/03/2015 09:17

recommend the Freedom programme book for anyone with a doubt - it is an easy read in comparison to Lundy and an eye opener - should be handed out to all girls in school and by all GPs when women in relationships are relying on ADs.

www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Dominator-About-Freedom-Programme/dp/0955882702/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426749288&sr=8-1&keywords=the%20freedom%20programme%20book&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

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bibliomania · 19/03/2015 09:46

I heartily recommend the book - I've bought it twice to read myself and both times I've given it away to other women who needed it.

The major thing I learned is that abusive men choose to abuse because they get an advantage out of it - basically they get their own way all the time, plus it's psychologically soothing when things are always someone else's fault and you're never, never in the wrong.

I spent 18 months with a mixture of Demand Man/The Victim. I hate seeing him pushing the same dynamic on dd when she's with him.

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GallicGarlic · 19/03/2015 13:52

One other thought: it's a hard one to compress into a post, but perhaps worth trying to say. Those of us who've been in more than one abusive relationship can often be guilty of abusive behaviour - or at least abusive thinking - ourselves. If the relationship pattern that's familiar to you is more like a battle of wills than teamwork, there's likely to be a little warrior in your head seeking the advantage. Without even realising it, you might be looking for weak spots and opportunities; trying to score points. If your partner/boss/friend/relative is an abuser, then the dynamic's familiar to you both. You can get sucked into a relationship war without even realising what's happened.

I used to say my relationships were 'volatile', or even 'passionate', not knowing that this was all about abusive cycles. Balanced, secure relationships are neither cataclysmic nor oppressive. Mine were both. On reading "Why Does He Do That?" and "Living with the Dominator", I recognised myself as well as my abusers. The books also helped me change, because they describe healthy behaviours as well as the dysfunctional ones.
I found "Games People Play" enlightening, too, both for identifying when people are trying to play me and when I'm in danger of playing some stupid game on others.

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Gralick · 27/03/2015 01:35

Weekly bump ...

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Gralick · 02/04/2015 22:43

I've just found Lundy Bancroft's blog! :) :)

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Rozalia · 03/04/2015 09:09

Thanks for that Gralick, just subscribed.

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