My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

MNHQ have commented on this thread

Relationships

The Abuser Profiles

242 replies

NettleTea · 29/12/2014 21:10

Just as a reference, and I lay no claims to this - it is all the work of the fabulous Lundy Bancroft and taken from his book 'Why Does he Do That' which is often recommended to read, and leads to the eureka moment

so many people dont seem to see the abuse. I didnt see the abuse. But this is the way he rolls..... (have had to split into individual posts as its too long......)

Abuser Profiles -- from Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft

"KEY POINTS TO REMEMBER"

"• Tremendous variation exists among abusive styles. Your abusive partner may be of a type I haven't encountered yet, but that doesn't make him any less real. Many men are mixtures of different aspects."

"• An abuser may change so much from day to day that he couldn't belong to any type. This style of abuser is so unpredictable that his partner can never make sense out of what she is living with."

"• An abuser of any type can have days when he turns loving, attentive, and thoughtful. At these times, you may feel that his problem has finally gone away and that the relationship will return to its rosy beginning. However, abuse always comes back eventually unless the abuser has dealt with his abusiveness."


MR. RIGHT

Mr. Right considers himself the ultimate authority on every subject under the sun; you might call him Mr. Always Right. He speaks with absolute certainty, brushing your opinions aside like annoying gnats. He seems to see the world as a huge classroom, in which he is the teacher and you are his student. He finds little of value in your thoughts or insights, so he seeks to empty out your head and fill it up with his jewels of brilliance. When Mr. Right sits in one of my groups for abusive, men, he often speaks of his partner as if she were in danger from her own idiocy and he needs to save her from herself. Mr. Right has difficulty speaking to his partner—or about her—without a ring of condescension in his voice. And in a conflict his arrogance gets even worse.

Mr. Right's superiority is a convenient way for him to get what he wants. When he and his partner are arguing about their conflicting desires, he turns it into a clash between Right and Wrong or between Intelligence and Stupidity. He ridicules and discredits her perspective so that he can escape dealing with it. Here is a conversation I had with a Mr. Right whom I worked with in one of my abuser groups:

BANCROFT: Pat, do you have any abusive behaviors to report from this past week?

PAT: Well, I did yell at Gwen once and called her bitch. We were fighting about money, as usual.

BANCROFT: What was Gwen's perspective in the argument?

PAT: She thinks money grows on trees.

BANCROFT: Gwen said that money grows on trees?

PAT: Well no, not just like that. But that's how she acts.

BANCROFT: Let's try again. What was she saying in the argument?

PAT: She thinks we have enough money to get both of the children whole new sets of clothes. But we just bought all new stuff for them only a few weeks ago. And we just don't have it in the bank right now.

BANCROFT: Does Gwen agree that the last round of shopping was only a few weeks ago?

PAT: No, she says it was four months ago, at the beginning of the summer, which is a crock. I can remember that the summer was more than half over.

BANCROFT: So her memory is different from yours. Did she say why she thinks it was earlier?

PAT: Of course not, she's…Well, maybe she said something about how she remembers she paid the credit card bill for those clothes while the children were still in school. But she's wrong.

BANCROFT: Now, you said that the money simply isn't there. Gwen obviously thinks differently. Where does she think the money should come from?

PAT: I already told you, she wants me to be a magician who can just make it appear.

BANCROFT: But she must have been making points about it. What was she saying?

PAT: Oh, I don't know…She says we should sell our car and get a shit box, which would just end up costing us more in the long run, plus I don't want to deal with it.

BANCROFT: What do you drive now?

PAT: A Saab.

BANCROFT: Let me guess. She would like to trade the Saab in on a reliable car that has lower monthly payments, cheaper parts, and fewer repair bills.

PAT: Yeah, that's what I said, a shit box.

What Pat revealed in this exchange was that each time Gwen attempts to stand up for herself or put forth her views, he twists her statements to make them sound absurd. Notice how long it took me to drag out of him what Gwen's opinions actually were. Gwen naturally came out feeling stifled by Pat, as there was nothing she could do to get her views heard and taken seriously. Part of why Pat is convinced that Gwen is stupid is that he is so exaggeratedly certain of his own wisdom and clarity. Since she continues to disagree with him, he takes that as proof of her foolishness.

When Mr. Right decides to take control of a conversation, he switches into his Voice of Truth, giving the definitive pronouncement on what is the correct answer or the proper outlook. Abuse counselors call this tactic defining reality. Over time, his tone of authority can cause his partner to doubt her own judgment and come to see herself as not very bright. I notice how often I am speaking with the intelligent-sounding partner of one of my clients, only to have her say to me: I'm not that smart. The abuser wants her to doubt her mental abilities in this way, so that he can control her better.

Besides knowing all about the world, Mr. Right is also an expert on your life and how you should live it. He has the answers to your conflicts at work, how you should spend your time, and how you should raise your children. He is especially knowledgeable about your faults, and he likes to inventory what is wrong with you, as if tearing you down were the way to improve you. He may seem to enjoy periodically straightening you out in front of other people to humiliate you, thereby establishing his unquestionable intellectual superiority. When Mr. Right's partner refuses to defer to his sophisticated knowledge, he is likely to escalate to insulting her, calling her names, or mocking her with imitation. If he's still not satisfied that he has brought her down low enough, he may reach for bigger guns, such as ruining evening plans, leaving places without her, or saying bad things about her to other people. If he is physically assaultive, then this is the time he may throw things, raise fists, or attack violently. In short, Mr. Right finds some way to ensure that his partner regrets her insistence on having her own mind.

Mr. Right in some respects is a less violent and frightening version of the Drill Sergeant (see p. 86), but Mr. Right's control tends to be especially focused on telling his partner how to think. His partner feels suffocated by his control, as if he were watching her every move under a microscope.

Mr. Right tries to sanitize his bullying by telling me, I have strong opinions or I like debating ideas. This is like a bank robber saying, I'm interested in financial issues. Mr. Right isn't interested in debating ideas; he wants to impose his own.

The central attitudes driving Mr. Right are:

• You should be in awe of my intelligence and should look up to me intellectually. I know better than you do, even about what's good for you.

• Your opinions aren't worth listening to carefully or taking seriously.

• The fact that you sometimes disagree with me shows how sloppy your thinking is.

• If you would just accept that I know what's right, our relationship would go much better. Your own life would go better, too.

• When you disagree with me about something, no matter how respectfully or meekly, that's mistreatment of me.

• If I put you down for long enough, some day you'll see

OP posts:
Report
Marchate · 03/01/2016 23:29

It really helps you understand what they're up to

Report
Dorsetmama · 04/01/2016 03:17

Throughout my life, i have been at the hands of The Drill Sergeant as a kid from my Stepfather, then The Victim as a teen, him my older boyf, then The Victim - he is the father of my kids, then The Player, and now with my current partner im not sure which he is.... But somewherr between The Victim and The Addicted/Mentally Ill.

I need to read very carefully the profile of an ordinary man and stsrt profiling anyone else I may want to date in the future.
But tbh, im well put off.

Report
Jux · 04/01/2016 10:08

Dorsetmama, investigate the Freedom Programme. Good luck.

Report
GreenMouse · 06/01/2016 09:41

Brilliant thread!

Report
tiredvommachine · 10/01/2016 11:17

Bump

Report
NettleTea · 16/01/2016 19:36

time for another bump?

OP posts:
Report
stubbornstains · 16/01/2016 20:07

I knew that DS1's dad was emotionally abusive; I've also had him pegged as having psychopathic tendencies for quite some time. It seems he fits the description of "The Player" to a T though, and I now feel (marginally) better about having had a screaming match with his new girlfriend (very much out of character!), knowing that it's part of the player's modus operandi to play "his" women off against each other.

Report
bodenbiscuit · 16/01/2016 23:15

When men say 'I'm not one of those men who does X' or 'I have more to offer than other guys' that's not a good thing is it?!

Report
SoThatHappened · 17/01/2016 11:00

Do abusers ever change? Even when they move onto a new relationship?

Report
bodenbiscuit · 17/01/2016 12:56

No they don't - at least not without counselling and a real incentive to change. Most abusive people carry out the same patterns of behaviour with all of their relationships.

Report
SoThatHappened · 17/01/2016 15:25

No they don't - at least not without counselling and a real incentive to change. Most abusive people carry out the same patterns of behaviour with all of their relationships.

So if they treated everyone the same pretty much and just move from relationship to relationship with no gap (hedging bets and overlapping) how they treated everyon in the past is how they will treat everyone new?

Report
WineIsPaleo · 17/01/2016 15:38

Just reading the book 'Why Does He Do That' by Bancroft. I wish I had read it years ago and saved myself all that time I spent trying to fix a marriage that wasn't for fixing because he is an abusive twat. I urge anyone, ANYONE who is in a relationship where they think that something isn't 'quite right' to read it. My ex is Mr. Right. A nasty, manipulative Mr. Right. Brilliant thread.

Report
bodenbiscuit · 17/01/2016 18:53

I've got the point where I feel the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Report
SoThatHappened · 17/01/2016 20:47

I've got the point where I feel the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Yes. People rarely change, particularly once they're over 30. You cant blame it on youth anymore,

Report
tiredvommachine · 21/01/2016 16:24

Bump

Report
Roundles · 24/01/2016 23:07

Bump Sad

Report
tiredvommachine · 02/02/2016 19:40

February bump.

Report
SoThatHappened · 02/02/2016 20:59

Does anyone else feel they have to know / find out if their ex is treating everyone else the same as they did them? To know it just wasnt you?

Report
WeeHelena · 02/02/2016 22:47

I waited and borrowed the book a year or so after leaving an abusive ltr I didn't put this book down, it was an eye opener and validated all that I knew already and I still carry the values that had taken from it then even if I can't remember all the words.

There should be a manual for life section here for all the amazing books out there like this.

Report
WeeHelena · 02/02/2016 22:51

sothathappened I have no doubt that my abusive ex mistreats all his partners but maybe not in exactly the same way he did me as the dynamics will be different in each of them..
he is 1st deeply selfish and all his behaviors stem from that alone so if he was left to do as he pleased and catered for in life he would probably treat his partner very well but I doubt there are many who would accept his way of living.

I do not wish to know his business or that of his partners though as it is none of my business.

Report
NettleTea · 11/02/2016 10:24

bump

OP posts:
Report
tiredvommachine · 26/02/2016 19:26

Bump

Report
GarlicShake · 01/03/2016 22:58

There should be a manual for life section here for all the amazing books like this.

Very good idea!

The front page of Relationships suggests this needs another bump :(

Report
Mamaka · 04/03/2016 11:20

This book is changing my life. I was literally open mouthed in shock the whole time I was reading it. The description of the water torturer is my h to the very last letter.

Report
MeBup · 04/03/2016 11:32

This book changed my life.

A year after reading it, my mental health is back on track and I am loving life again. The book set me free.

I agree it should be on the curriculum.

I am wondering if anyone can give any advice actually. In my workplace we have speakers come in once a month to talk about a variety of different issues and topics. I want to put forward an idea - that we get someone in to talk about emotionally abusive relationships. I know Lundy is in America and I suspect he would be out of our budget anyway. Is there anyone else I could ask to come in to speak about these issues?

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.