Paying for sex

[avoiretre]

Anyone seen this article in the Mail:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2838656/One-nine-men-admits-paid-sex-Single-men-aged-25-34-professional-jobs-likeliest-group-use-prostitutes.html#comments
Looking at the comments at the bottom, most think that most men pay. Is this more true than we like to admit?

[Audeca]

@TheHermitCrab

Yeah, I hadn't realised I had posted that!

I had been writing quite a long response to avoiretre because I dislike sweeping generalisations backed up with crappy made up statistics , but then decided not to post and deleted it....

...well, most of it. I clearly managed to post just the quote that I had thought about replying to!

[Amyanne]

Oh and I had a look at the UKPunting page shock]. The men on there really do think it is their right to pay for sex if they wish.

[Amyanne]

I have to agree with an earlier poster who commented that for some men it seems 'cleaner' paying for sex abroad than it does at home. Across every country in South-East Asia the availability of paid for sex is astounding. Men don't need to visit a brothel if that seems seedy to them. In tourist hot spots, there are so many 'normal' bars and clubs with a mixture of men, women, people looking for sex, people not looking for sex that are filled with gorgeous, young girls who are 'freelancing' and would quite happily make some extra money by going back to a man's hotel. Men might not actually be looking for sex, just out enjoying a night out and are approached. After a few drinks, for some it's easy to think yeah why not. Not just old men either, as many young guys in their 20s and 30s too. In some places, it is impossible for a single man drinking alone in a bar or walking down a street to avoid- he will be continuously approached. Society's acceptance and the fact that you don't even have to actively search removes the seedy, filthy aspect for many. The statistic in reality is much higher.

[walkingcontradiction]

Im not trying to conjure up anything I just dont think it is as simple as black or white.

[AnyFucker]

I don't think that anyone has the right to pay for sex. It's quite simple, really. You are trying to conjure up false equivalences.

[walkingcontradiction]

Even if say for example she has a disability and has been a victim of bullying with no man willing to get to know her in that way?

[AnyFucker]

Yep

Was there a point to that ?

[walkingcontradiction]

So the general feeling here is men who pay for sex are nasty people. Personly i think it is not that simple but who cares. But are women who pay male escorts for sex also nasty or as someone said earlier.... cunts?

[LurcioAgain]

That article is good, Lady Blah. Thanks for the link (not going to look at the comments...) Thank heavens there are decent people out there in roles where they have professional responsibility for this sort of thing who will speak out.

[AnyFucker]

twink, I will add another descriptive to that list

unintentionally celibate

[Twinklestein]

Do the men trawl the internet for stories about women finally being heard and then post misogynist comments for fun?

Of course they do. A significant % of men who hang out on broadsheet websites commenting on female journalists' articles or articles relating to feminist issues are not readers of that newspaper, they're just there for the ruck.

They seem to have a lot of free time during the day and I have concluded that they are a combination of the following: unemployed, retired, ill and mad.

[Tobyjugg]

Lion Do the men trawl the internet for stories about women finally being heard and then post misogynist comments for fun? As a man, I'm sad to say that, yes, I think some actually do this.

[Lioninthesun]

I really must stop looking at the comments. Just caught up with the article Lady posted earlier and am seething again. Do the men trawl the internet for stories about women finally being heard and then post misogynist comments for fun? It seems like every article where women have a breakthrough or finally get a break they all pop up like fungus. Was reading the comments on here earlier and getting equally disheartened www.independent.co.uk/news/people/julien-blanc-controversial-pickup-artist-is-denied-visa-to-enter-uk-9870791.html?origin=internalSearch I keep thinking I must have read a different story when I read the comments on Independent. Guardian comments seem to be slightly more 'normal'.

[LadyBlaBlah]

When someone talks of "helping around the house they might get more sex" and that being some sort of payment is just ludicrous.

Women still do the majority / too much of the shit manual tasks and it pisses them off eventually because it is bullshit. And when someone is bullshitting you, you pretty much universally don't want to have sex with them.

[whatsthatcomingoverthehill]

I don't know anyone who has paid for sex. I assume that some have but I just don't know about it, and it isn't discussed openly. The attitude of it being commonly accepted amongst men is not true.

(Oh and as far as the 'paying emotionally' thing goes, whilst it's clearly pathetic, it's a view you see on MN a lot too. There's lots of comments like "Well if he did more around the house I'm sure you would feel more up for sex" and so on. It seems that the view of sex being something that a man needs to earn does not just come from men.)

[Twinklestein]

Thanks for the link LadyBlahBlah.

He's absolutely right that prostutition can never be made safe because a % of men will be violent with them and that cannot be changed, unfortunately.
A dismal number of punters do not understand that paying a woman does not give them the right to do anything they like.

This is why legalisation is a red herring. All it has done, in the countries that have tried it, is lead to an explosion of trafficking.

[Twinklestein]

I don't agree that most punters are necessarily ugly, my previous post was with reference to the discussion of generic punter comments along the 'it's no wonder we pay for it when our wives look like they do' line.

I can only imagine what they must look like.

[LadyBlaBlah]

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/this-is-what-the-one-in-ten-british-men-who-pay-for-sex-need-to-know-9869621.html

Naice article, from a man too

[Twinklestein]

I don't agree that more men have slept with prostitutes than admit it in this survey. This isn't the only survey of its kind, many of which are anonymous, and generally they come out with roughly the same figure of around 10%.

This survey is described as 'computer assisted self-interview' whatever that may mean.

Some women here have low expectations of men and apparently hang out with some quite ghastly examples. If they report that prostitute-use among such men is higher than average, that tells you a lot about those men and absolutely nothing about the rest of the male population.

[Lioninthesun]

So we mainly all agree more men have slept with sex workers than admitted it for this article, we agree they are usually aware it is not something to divulge in public (therefore that it is wrong on some level), we also agree that these men are more likely than not pretty ugly themselves (especially if they have married someone who they themselves think is ugly) and that for most people the basic idea of having sex with someone, who is indifferent to you at best, purely because you can pay them is not particularly ego boosting.

And yet we all know it isn't just the smelly ugly beer bellied men who do this - it's also relative youngsters in Amsterdam, it's the husbands on the business trips, divorced men and the stag do's all over the world. A wide range of ages/class/abilities/interests/intelligence.

I don't think I'll ever understand men.

[TheHermitCrab]

Audeca

avoiretre wrote that sentence word for word on the first page of the thread....

[Audeca]

I'm pretty sure it is much more than that...50% directly and 95% indirectly would be my guess.

[LadyBlaBlah]

Which part of not using sex workers "doesn't work for you" Eekaman?

[Twinklestein]

If their wives are genuinely unattractive, can you imagine what they must look like themselves?

Some men are so unattractive and obnoxious that they can't get a woman to have sex with them without paying them.

A good reason for not becoming a prostitute one would have thought.

[TheHermitCrab]

FolkGirl
I've read those comments. Especially the comments along the lines of, "it's no wonder we pay for it when our wives look like they do" and firstly, that's exactly why I'm staying single!

You're staying single because some men make these comments? Sounds a bit daft writing them all off because if the misogynistic internet trolls? Especially when you disagree with them talking about women on a whole in such a manner. You're practically doing the same thing to all the decent men out there and ring fencing them with these idiots.

There are many reasons why men make those kind of comments.

• They actually think that way - they are sexist nasty pigs
  
• They know it winds women up, they are trolls
  
• They are bored, and probably write equally immature comments about various other subjects.
  

Then there's the decent men, who would never pay for sex, who disagree with these men, but know better than to have a petty one-sided argument with these neanderthals on a facebook comments page.