Help me word a text to toxic mother please (long)

[Buckmusted]

About 18 months ago I went NC with my sister because she did something that really upset me, and after several attempts to talk to her and her completely ignoring me, I realised she didn't really care. And then I stopped caring too.

Our mother has always blatantly favoured my sister (though strongly denied it when challenged). Both of us have disabilities but mine never gets mentioned, while mother bangs on about sister's health all the time. They've always had a good relationship. Me and mother: not so much. I was frequently neglected as a child, and abandoned by her, left to be brought up by someone else. She scared me as she was strict and very outspoken. I still saw her 2 or 3 times a year and loved it because I missed her very much. I know that sounds odd, but I was a kid and she was my mum.

She came to live nearby a few years ago and I see her frequently now. But after the novelty of her being near wore off, I realised how emotionally abusive she was. She also lies, manipulates people and is rude and offensive. It was like a veil had been lifted. I went through a period of grieving for the mum I'd always wanted but never had and it was a painful time. I confronted her about some things, but she turned them back on to me, made them my fault.

I had counselling and ADs which were both massively helpful. Eventually I started being able to see her as 'someone I know' rather than 'my mum' and was able to cope better with her visits and sometimes even had a laugh with her.

Last week we had a falling-out. She passed me an envelope containing a birthday card, from my sister. I jokingly asked if it had an apology in it and she went mad. For the first time in my life, I shouted her down and told her some home truths, flung the unopened envelope down then I stormed out and went home. I was absolutely shaking with rage, but later on I felt very calm, like "we're done, that's it".

She sent me a text asking if we can talk when she gets back from a few days away (pre-planned trip, nothing to do with our falling out) and I don't know how to respond.

What I want is to never speak to her or see her again. But do I put that in a text and send it? I thought about saying "It's become apparent that I have some deep issues with you and I need to keep my distance for a while".

Does that sound OK, or do you have some better responses or words of advice?

[Meerka]

when everythign comes to a head like this, a period of cooling off is a good idea.

Do you think your mother could ever actually respond to you reasonably, or would any conversation always end up Your Fault?

Do you think you really do not want to see her again, ever, or do you think you might want to after a while? (genuine question).

If you don't want to see her again, then I think you need to write her a short note saying so. Don't even need to give reasons. A note is better than a text as it makes it harder to shoot off a quick reply.

If you think you need a good long period of reflection before talking to her, tell her that and that you will contact her when you are ready. Might want to say that trying to force contact early will make things worse.

Either way, it's a good idea to plan out what steps she might take.

If she turns up on your doorstep, you can tell her that you don't want to talk to her and that if she doesn't go away you will call the police. Keep the door on the chain if you have one, or put your foot in the crack so she can't put her foot there.

If she tries to keep ringing/texting/emailing you, block phone and mark her mails as Spam.

One of the hardest thigns is that she might lie about you to her friends/acquaintances/your sister. You might get people contacting you. Lies can't really be counteracted well, you just have to say that that's not how it happened and that you don't want to go into the full story, but that it took a lot to get to this point. And that it's between her and you.

Good luck

[Meerka]

I wouldnt say that it's apparent that you have some deep issues with her. That makes it sound like your problem. It'll be very easy for her to turn it back onto you. Actually it's at least both your problem; the one she created (perhaps accidently even) but you're stuck with it.

saying that you wish for some time without contact with her and that you'll get in touch when you're ready, and to please respect that, seems more neutral. if she doesn't respect your stated wishes, block her.

[Hissy]

seriously, no reply.
it's the most effective.

work through your fear. it will diminish. come post what you'd LIKE to tell her on here, but never to her. she'll use it to devastate you.

if she turns up and makes a scene, don't open the door, post on here or on the stately homes thread, and we'll hand hold while you coLlect yourself/call the police.

that's what I did when I went through what you did.

stately homes may seem overwhelming, but seriously it's not. just post a Hi, we'll know who you are, no need for explanations/introductions now!

it'll be ok, you don't need to keep this toxic person in your life.

[darkness]

Whatever you send shewill still do as she has her whole life, whatever she wants to. Irrespective of you wants needs or feelings. Its really not about communicating your needs to her. She doesn't care, has she ever. You need to get your head to s place where you top thinking "if only I got this right she would behave differently" there is no way to text her ..or not ..which will change her or stop her doing what she wants to..you can only decide what kind of emotional wall you are going to build, and what you are prepared to use to defend it with.

[DeckSwabber]

Hmmm - no reply leaves it all in the air and unresolved which could be unhealthy.

You are best placed to know what you want in your situation, but you might want more time to think about it.

Could you tell her you will see her on x date or y date (a month or so hence), and suggest you go for a walk or something (so its neutral ground)?

My mum and I always had a tricky relationship but it was better when we saw each other less frequently and had something planned.

[Hissy]

Agreed DeckSwabber there is that, in which case something along the lines of

'I'm not prepared to argue anymore, I'll contact you when I am ready'

and leave it at that.

She wants to talk AT you Buckmusted not TO you. She wants to tell you how unreasonable YOU have been and that she will forgive you as long as you apologise to her. She will also say that she won't get in the middle of her children (which is actually tacit support for the wrong your sister did)

OR

she will see you and pretend nothing happened. Nothing happened at all.

I can lend you the T-Shirt I have if you like... it's shit isn't it? :(

[Buckmusted]

Sorry for not posting for a few days; I wanted to thank you all for your support so far

I haven't sent any reply to her text asking if we could talk. I just couldn't quite figure out what to say, so I said nothing. And I've added her number to my phone's auto-reject list. I've never done that before so I don't really know what happens if she tries to call or text.

Later today she'll be coming home from her trip away. I'm worried she might turn up here. I suspect she also might try calling or texting me on my daughter's phone. I've told my DD to just repeat "It's nothing to do with me, I don't want to be involved".

Phalenopsis Yes, I think she will try to turn my father against me, but I'm not bothered as we aren't very good friends anyway. There isn't really anyone else she could use against me.

Attila thank you for that link, very useful.

Meerka No, I don't think she could ever respond to me reasonably, she never has before. Everything is always my fault, even if it's not. I really do think I'd be a lot happier if I never had to see her again. Thanks for the suggestions of what to do/say.

Hissy Yes it is shit... She's already said she won't interfere in me and my sister's feud, yet I know she has already because she knew all about it before I'd even mentioned it. And she has consistently stuck up for my sister and taken her side. She hasn't allowed me to have my say and tell my side of the story, just automatically believed the BS my sister told her, this is why I snapped last week, I'm just sick of not being allowed to say what actually happened and getting blamed for something I didn't do.

[Buckmusted]

She'll be back in a couple of hours and I'm getting nervous.

[Meerka]

You migh want to block her on your daughter's phone, buck. Explain to your daughter why, in age appropriate terms. Im sorry but poisonous people sometimes try to turn grandchildren against parents. there are some sad, sad posts by people sometimes where there's happened.

If she turns up at your house, don't let her in. Keep her on the doorstep. Repeat that you have nothing to say to her. Keep repeating that.

As a mental trick try to see her as a stranger.

[Buckmusted]

Thank you Meerka :)
I've spoken to my daughter about blocking her but she's 16 and knows about all the 'stuff' that's gone on over the years with me and mum, and while she's firmly on 'my side' she doesn't really want to cut contact.

So for today, if she turns up, I have to just remember not to go to pieces and give in, but to remember to say "I have nothing to say to you" and leave her outside.

[pippinleaf]

I have a seriously bad relationship with my mother and speak with years of experience of 'dealing' with it. Don't write anything in a text, email or letter. If she's like mine it opens the door for her to reply in a nasty way etc. also she gets to show it to her cronies and do the whole 'poor me' thing with them. I'd just not contact her for a while at all. Just completely leave it.

[pippinleaf]

As for her coming round. My mum did this after a period of no contact and demanded we 'talk' about things. I told her I simply didn't want to. She said she was very upset and wanted to talk it out now. I said I didn't care. She demanded I repeat that last phrase, so I did. I added that this was my home and in my home I should feel safe and happy and asked her to leave. She did. It was most satisfying.

[Hissy]

i'd still have a chat with your dd thoug buck, your dd is 16, so thinks she knows it all, and can handle your dm.

she can't.

you can't ffs, and have a life time of trying :) she's going to have to trust you that having this woman in your lives needs to be strictly controlled/curtailed as she is harming everyine she has contact with.

even if they can't see it.

[Meerka]

agreed with hissy

[Buckmusted]

God you're all so wise :) I'm so glad Mumsnet exists.
Well she didn't show up today. DH says I mustn't become a prisoner in our own home. I just hope I never bump into her (both live in same very small town).

Well done pippinleaf have you not seen her since? How long has it been?

Hissy yes, I know you're right. I think I'm afraid of DD resenting me for splitting up her family. She's already sort of lost her aunt through all this (their only contact is now through Facebook).

[Hissy]

there can't be resentment toward you, it's not you that splits up the family, it's this crazy batshit behaviour.

[RubbishMantra]

Like others have said, you don't owe her a response. Don't be scared of her. It's difficult (for me at least) to regard oneself as an adult within a toxic parent/child relationship. Toxic parents use that to their advantage.

Look at it this way - if this were a friendship, would you have given up on it by now? Just because someone is your biological parent, does that give them an automatic right to treat you like crap?

[Buckmusted]

"It's difficult (for me at least) to regard oneself as an adult within a toxic parent/child relationship"

Yes it is for me too. She makes me feel like a child having a strop / sulking. And I know it's much more than that. She doesn't have the right to treat me like crap, no.

I found this page in a Google search and found it helpful. I want to remember these things from it:

"You are not responsible for your parents happiness.
You are not here to live the life they want you to live.
You are not here to live up to your parents expectations or dreams. You are here to live your own dreams.
You are not here to sacrifice yourself for them. They as adults have made their own choices and will continue to do so."

[Buckmusted]

Aaargh she's gone and texted my DD like I thought she would :(

The text is all nicey-nicey and asks her if my phone's working because she's texted me twice and had no reply.

I don't know what to do. I really didn't want my DD involved at all but now she's going to have to reply, but saying what? I don't know.

I just want her to leave me alone.

[Aussiebean]

She doesn't have to reply.

But if she does want to, she can be non comital

'I don't know' 'I'm not sure'

Or - I prefer to keep out of this

-I'm not getting involved that's between you two.

It is not your daughters place to be involved and she is going to have to learn to set her own boundaries. There is a good chance you mum with up the anti with her, which may not be a bad thing if you are open about it.

The important thing to say to your daughter is that this issue has nothing to go with her and not to let your mum suck her in.

[newhereappreciatehelp]

Ùguj

[Hissy]

no reply, and that caht with DD is now essential.

your DD will be collateral damage to your mum in all this, your DM will think nothing of hurting her to get to you.

radio silence. from the both of you. can you get DM nimbers blocked on DD's phone?

[Meerka]

your daughter needs to know, from you, that she is not a go - between, that it is between you and your mother and that it itsn't right for her to be involved.

I would discuss it and if at all possible suggest that your daughter blocks her on her phone, but at 16 in the end it's her decision. If she doesn't, what aussiebean says

You are not splitting up the family btw. It's your mother's behaviour has done that. It is right and normal for people to protect themselves after a certain point, and that's what you're doing. It's the right thing to do, if there is no chance of a reasonable discussion with your mother and you've been clear there isn't.

I'm with hissy btw. your daughter may think she knows it all and can handle her grandmother but she really doesn't. Please be very careful because your mother is likely to try to seduce your daugther, big style.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What both Hissy and Meerka have written here. Block your mothers number from both phones.

Radio silence from the two of you has to be maintained; your 16 year old has really no idea what she is up against if she thinks she can at all handle her grandmother (not a chance in hell frankly, besides which your DD has no real life experience). She will use your DD to get back at you, your DD likely does not realise that she is now being herself manipulated.

[Meerka]

Thinking about it, we say 'warn your daughter' but it must be difficult to know exactly what to say.

Genearlly people who manipulate thrive on the good manners of others and their reluctance to speak ill of others. Openness and (not-nasty) honesty are the best counters to that.

So ... unless she has a natural radar for when someone's acting poisonously, explaining to your daughter just what the reasons are for going NC may be best. It's an unpleasant conversation and you can say that usually this isn't something you'd talk about but you have to warn her what might happen. That her grandmother might tell a story that is rather massaged from the reality of what actuallly happens and that sadly, sometimes she tells things in a way that make her look good and someone else bad but that's not objectively what happened. Also that her grandmother's rudeness and favouritism is not the way that people shoudl behave and therefore you are withdrawing until / unless she can discuss things reasonably and take responsiblity for her part in what's gone wrong.

Most people give gifts because the other person will like them, and they enjoy giving them. But there are some people who give gifts to make you like them and then they can get influence over you.

This is kind of controversial, a conversation like this, but personally I don't think warning people that not everyone is nice is a bad thing. A lot of the more manipulative and controlling people who walk all over nice people manage it because the nice people haven't been prepared to detect the red flags. Personally I think that red flags in relationships should be taught along with sex ed and most of the tricks that abusive people use are the same, whether it's bf, gf or parent.