I am stuck on the other side of the world and my marriage is falling apart

[Iris1789]

I have posted before on 'living overseas' but think this is more of a relationship problem at the moment. I have made a terrible mistake and ruined my life and would appreciate any help as I can't see the situation clearly at the moment.
My DH is australian, I'm from the UK (though i have an australian mother and other strong family ties here). We married 4 years ago after meeting in the UK. About 2 months before our wedding he made it very clear that he wanted us to move to Australia in the next few years and if I did not do this we would need to call the wedding off. After a very stressful period I agreed (this is first big mistake). From that point on DH looked for work in Australia so we could move but had no luck...he had a very good job in UK (as did I) and I would not move without him finding work first. He became increasingly unhappy and we could not move on with our lives at all - he absolutely refused to buy a house or even rent a bigger flat as then we would be committed to stay for longer. He argue that he could not find a role as no company was interested when they couldn't meet with him etc. i was going mad living in limbo so agreed to go after we had our second child (so we would at least have my maternity leave to support us in the interim). I never wanted to go but felt that I had to as I promised this before we married. This was the second big mistake. We agreed that we would give it a go for a year and if things had not 'worked out' in that time (specifically, if he couldn't find a job and/or I was very unhappy) we would return.
So...over a year on and he has still not found a job. We live in a horrible house his parents usually rent out to students (at least it is free...) I am working in an ok job but not as good as the one I left. I miss my parents and friends horribly and feel terribly guilty they are missing out on the grandchildren. In all cases it hasn't worked out, but DH insists things will improve and effectively refuses to return. After a lot of arguing about this he has agreed to return by the end of the year if he still hasn't found a job, but I don't think he will honour this if it came down to it (there are practical problems too as he will not look for a job in the UK as he says he can't do that and job hunt in Australia ...)
The children are in childcare so all he does is look for work and drop them off/ pick them up. I work full time and do all the housework. He is very good with the children but our relationship is pretty poor at the moment. I don't think there's any option but to stay with him though is there? I feel completely trapped and isolated and bitter about what he's done to our lives.

[CommonBurdock]

hi OP, haven't quite readvthebwholebthread but wanted to ask if you are on the Facebook stuck mums forum? There are several women in Oz and NZ in the same situation , and it's at least a valuable support. I' m in the same situation but in Europe so a bit less dramatic. but I will now be stuck here for the next 10 years at least. Am divorcing H due to similar attitudes as those you describe. all We can do is put ourselves and our DCs happiness first. How possible that is, I just don't know because it's a heartbreaking situation to be in.

[Iswallowedawatermelon]

This situation sounds awful.

It sounds as if he has already given up on the marriage and just wants to stay where he is, in his place of choice. I don't understand his attitude to the job search

Do you really think he would even want shared responsibility and equal time with the dc if you were to divorce? That fact that the dc are in full time childcare and he is not working at all, only job searching, shows that he is not really bothered with them imo.

Reading your posts it sounds to me as if he is no longer interested in being a husband or a father. But he does would does sound like a bastard so he would be likely to stop you from returning home with them, even if he has no interest in being a father.

I have no advice I'm sorry, but don't let your fears keep you stuck in a horrible relationship. I think being single (whilst being stuck where you are) and having some autonomy over your life and possible future relationships would be preferable to being stuck where you are and staying with such a selfish disinterested husband.

[Iris1789]

Thanks so much . All the comments have given me strength to see that I can't just put up with this behaviour. Sadly, we seemed to have a good relationship in the UK but he has really changed since we moved. I expected him to be supportive of me but he hasn't been at all - just completely given up and left me to do everything. I think he feels that he can treat me badly now because he has all the control over where we live. I will see if he sticks to his promise to go back in November if he still hasn't found a job and if not I could never trust him so I will leave - even if I have to stay here.

CommonBurdock, the stuck mums page is interesting, thanks for the tip. So sad that so many are in this situation though - and sorry to hear of your situation. Well done though for getting free and all the best.

[Doinmummy]

It's a bit risky but could you threaten him with going home alone and leaving the children with him? If he can't/ won't look after them while you're at work, I doubt he'll want them full time. It might push him to agreeing for you go home with the children.

Mind you, he may realise that you'd never leave your kids, so probably a silly idea , sorry.

[Hazchem]

Do you think he is acting like he is because he is actually unhappy but to scared to admit it? I am not saying this to excuse his behaviour. He is being a shit. But I wonder if his long term dream has been shattered and now he is lost.

I'm the person your husband is in my relationship. And the fact I have pushed the move half way across the world and it is not working out how we planned ways heavily on me. I have however been able to express those feelings to my partner but I wonder if I would be behaving like a petulant child if I hadn't.

[Iris1789]

Thanks hazchem. Yes I think he is unhappy and I do think he feels somewhat guilty about the situation. I think him and his family also blame me somewhat for 'keeping' him in the UK (pretty irrational but they hav commented a few times that if he had left earlier he would be established in a job now). We used to communicate fairly well about the situation but this has become much worse. His attitude is 'I am trying to get a job but I can't, what do you expect me to do about it?' I have really for my best to make a life for us here - made friends so the children can have friends to play with, got a job, tried to get on with his family etc etc...he just seems to have accepted the situation whilst I'd like him to be looking at all options (including trying to find a job in UK or overseas if he can't find one here) and supporting me more both in terms if housework and childcare and emotionally. He is totally focused on getting a job but is obviously doing something wrong - perhaps looking at the wrong level or industry. If I ask him to help more with the house he will say that in that case it will take him longer to find a job! I'm just so frustrated with the whole thing.
He has an interview today so fingers crossed...

[Hazchem]

t just sounds like such a mess in his head. Job searching does require time and effort but you can still do other things around it.
I know you have worked really hard to make a go of it and to an outsider it sounds like he isn't.
Fingers crossed that the interview goes well today.
I really hope things pick up for you soon.

[MexicanSpringtime]

Do take legal advice. I live in Mexico, a totally different legal system but here there is way of removing parental rights, when a parent does not take responsability for their children.

[Brabra]

You should check about legality with regards to child abduction/Hague convention. You have only been resident in Australia for a year, and were resident in the UK for a lot longer. This makes a huge difference.

[Thumbwitch]

Dear lord, he's saying that if he does housework it will take that much longer to find a job? WORRALOADOFSHIT.

I don't like that his parents are having a pop at you either, how very unpleasant of them. :( At least my MIL is helpful and nice - we've only fallen out a couple of times, once over DH's feckless brother and once over her overstepping boundaries in my home - but we still get on and she does loads to help us. Your ILs sound like they're just going to back their DS against you at every turn, which is really shit. :(

[AcrossthePond55]

Sounds like he thinks he's in the catbird seat to me, that you're stuck putting up with whatever he feels like dishing out. I agree with those who say to get legal advice immediately as far as being able to return to the UK or separating and staying in AUS. IMO, you're better off without him, but that's up to you to decide for yourself.

As far as 'I'm looking, what do you want?' I'd tell him that I want him to get a job. Don't care if it's scrubbing toilets or flipping burgers or as CEO of a multinational company. Any job is better than none & if he won't take whatever he can get to start helping support his family, then he probably doesn't really want to get a job at all. The best way to get a job is to have a job, any job. It shows prospective employers that you have a good work ethic and don't mind doing anything out there to have employment.

If there is a local MN expat group I urge you to get involved with them. You need advice and support from people who may be in a similar situation.

[downunderdolly]

Hi

Just dropping into say I'm sorry you are in this situation but I wanted to (unfortunately) confirm that your suspicions about having to remain in the country are likely right.

My ex left me 4 years ago (he is Australian) after I'd been living here for less than 2 years, with no career history, with a 2 year old and all family/support/network etc, in the UK (and having talked about returning to the UK). I consulting several relocation legal specialists, as my ex would not permit me to return, and the gist of it is that without documented physical or sexual abuse (and sometimes not even in those cases) there is little change of winning a case. The law over here for divorce is no fault (doesn't matter who has done what to whom) and they start at 50/50 care if a parent wants that and works backwards depending on desire, age, location, circumstances.

I'm not saying this to make you alarmed just so you can make an appropriate plan. If you want to go back to the UK, frankly you need to engineer a way to go back as a family and then leave.

It hugely hugely sucks. I won't hijack but I was left in a dreadful financial/career/housing position and could write a book about the perceived injustice of it but I do know its good to be armed with knowledge. Of course, get your own legal advise, but well meaning UK friends still ask me if I could do x or y as things are different in the UK about divorce/child support/location than over here (which is well meaning, but drives me nuts).

Feel free to PM me. BTW its nearly 4 years later and with a few claw marks where I've dug in deep, things are certainly on the up and up and I've learnt to love Australia and where I live but I would not wish the process on anyone so do get in touch if I can help.

Good luck xx

[WildBillfemale]

I'm not saying this to make you alarmed just so you can make an appropriate plan. If you want to go back to the UK, frankly you need to engineer a way to go back as a family and then leave

This times 100. You may need to be a bit devious - gem up on the law on the quiet, return to the UK for a family 'holiday' (borrow money off family if necessary) then don't return leaving H with the option of staying in the UK or returning to Aus' on his own.
Worry about the legal stuff after you are back in the UK after your 'extended holiday' to Aus'.
You have no property in Aus' and he has no job so it doesn't look like your permanent residence on paper this may actually help you return to the UK with the kids?........just a suggestion, get legal advice.

[Iris1789]

God downunderdolly that sounds like a nightmare. I agree that I need us to go back as a family - ironically though, if H was prepared to move back to the UK I think this would show he takes my feelings and the family's future seriously and I don't think I could cynically leave him under those circumstances. I suspect The Hague convention would still apply under a 'pretend holiday' scenario and one of my biggest fears is that I will never be able to return to the UK with the children, even for a holiday (presumably H could stop me if he thought there was a risk of me running off with them...and maybe even if there wasn't reasonable grounds go this belief?)
This is all really difficult for me to weigh up in my head but I do think H and the children need to continue to have a strong relationship - so we need to be in the same country, even if not together. It might be that I just have to get on with things here. I do like the city we live in and I could make a life here...it's just the situation and the relationship that are crap at the moment, and I feel betrayed and let down and sad for the life we uses to have...

[downunderdolly]

Iris

I agree on the maintaining relationships front --I wanted ex to move back as we met, married and intended to return there (although of course he had OW so not a flyer :)

Depending on the 'severity' of how things are it would be good to speak to a lawyer for some hypothetical advise. If, for arguments sake, you split in AU, you could get the 'right' to travel back to the UK to maintain family relationships into your legal agreement. I have for 6 weeks a year. Less easy to do financially etc (and ex trying to change that) but that should be achievable.

I'm not in my nature a calculating, cynical person hence I moved to the other side of the world not even looking at what might happen if things went wrong and from your note about not leaving your H if he did go to the UK I imagine you are not. So I will say this cynical, calculating thing on your behalf. One things to VERY carefully consider is that if you decided that you could make a future for yourself in AU but that you would like to split, you need to consider at this point in time you would probably be liable to provide your ex-H with child support (maintenance for spouses is pretty much unheard of here, its asset split and child support). I feel uncomfortable raising it for a number of reasons but if you working and him not working is not a mutually agreed decision but has been the norm in Australia, you could end up in a 'tricky' situation. Again, hate thinking like this but you do need to have your eyes wide open before you make any decisions.

That said, it does sound like there is some hope for your relationship and I would never normally counsel being 'strategic' or 'calculated' in normal circumstances but as splitting up in AU takes a number of choices away from you which are quite material, thought it worth referencing!

x

[ooooooohnose]

oh goodness,
so true, come back to the uk on holiday, then make the decision for the future.

it may, only just may, be the be a pivotal moment for you all.

he may realise that it would be better for him to stay here, his pride wouldn't be affected if he "agreed".

can the children be allowed to voice their preference where they want to be?
I can't see how it would work long term if you divorce and stay in oz.

[AcrossthePond55]

As you seek legal advice from a solicitor in Aus, is there anyone who could see a solicitor in the UK on your behalf to gather information on your legal position if you should decide to go the 'UK holiday, not returning to Aus' scenario? You don't want to do that only to find that the UK legal system won't support your position.

[kaykayblue]

I'm really sorry to say this, but I've just done some reading on it, and apparently Australia is one of the WORST countries when it comes to allowing re-locations.

The only thing you can do is make it clear to your husband that you will leave him, and then re-locate within Australia. The only thing to do then will be to try your hardest to build an enjoyable life for yourself there, or to grind him down until he lets you go home.

This has certainly shown me to never, ever move to Australia for any reason whatsoever.

[Thumbwitch]

It is a bugger, yes kaykay. They're really strict on sticking to the Hague Convention in both directions - there was a tragic story of an Australian woman married to an Italian, with 4 DDs, who came home to Australia with the girls because he was abusive. He went to the police, the Australian govt returned them to their father in Italy. It was awful :( - the gran went on the run with them for a while until they caught up with her, they were wrested from their mother, I think she was arrested, it was shocking. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2212640/Four-girls-dragged-aeroplane-Australia-judge-rules-return-father-Italy.html
Sorry about the DM link! The Aussie link I found failed to work.

[Hazchem]

How are you going Iris?

[Iris1789]

Thanks for all comments. We're waiting to hear the results of DH's interview - but I'm not getting hopes up too much as we've been through the cycle of hope and disappointment so often recently. We had a chat about things last night. He believes that the job thing will work out soon and we should hang on, and that we would be worse off in the UK as he would have to start the job hunt thing all over again, we would have nowhere to live, no childcare set up etc etc...and to be honest I worry that he just won't really try to get a job if we go back. I mentioned some sort of counselling and he seemed a bit shocked. We just have a very different view of where we are - to him, it is an obstacle but worth it because we are heading towards the 'dream' of being here, whilst to me I never really wanted to move from the UK but did so on the assumption that we would at least have the same standard of living. So to me, I've lost out on all fronts. Looking back, I really resent the fact that he was so unbending on the whole moving thing. It would have meant a lot if he'd said 'you know what...you are more important to me than living in Australia and we don't have to move'. I know this is probably unreasonable but I regret marrying someone who loves his country more than me.

[Aussiemum78]

It's more than the country though. He could do the housework and look after the kids but he doesn't. He could get any job in order to afford a nicer home but he doesn't. He's just doing next to nothing. Childcare must cost heaps - he could save that money in lieu of an income for now.

Sorry but the longer he is unemployed, the more he is seen as unemployable. He could get a job stacking shop shelves in the meantime, he could study, he could volunteer, he could do the fecking laundry.

I'd separate from him if you can and seek legal advice. You might be able to take him to court to legally relocate, especially if he provides no money of care for your kids. Separating and letting him deal with his own shit is first.

[Lweji]

There is no starting on the job thing. Every time he applies it starts from zero. It's like playing the lottery, it doesn't matter how long he does it for, except for the worst.

Could he even think of a business, such as selling on eBay or something? Providing services, online or physically?

I think you need a plan, an ultimatum and to stick to it.

[SavoyCabbage]

Ahhhhh, the dream. He's not doing much to work towards the dream. He's not working towards improving your lives apart from these sporadic job interviews. He's not improving your lives by scrubbing the house.

I don't understand why he can't work in Macdonalds.

You are going to get stuck here. You already seem resigned to it. He's telling you that you are better off as a family here - where you have been for over a year, living in a student house, working full time (while supporting your non-working dh) and running a house. On your own. While you miss your friends and family.

How is it better?

[fuzzpig]

Dear lord, he's saying that if he does housework it will take that much longer to find a job? WORRALOADOFSHIT. m

Quite.