Social services threatening child protection plan if husband doesn't move out

[BelleBoyd]

It's a long story-posted about this before.
But in summary we have a 4 year old DD and 3 month DS. My husband rang the HV when DS was 3 weeks old after an argument to tell them I wasn't coping ( untrue btw ), which then led to an emergency visit from HV to see me getting ready to go out shopping with DD and DS all peaceful and fine. I told the HV there had been arguing and that DD had probably been able to hear it on occasion. She then referred us to SS.
So anyway there is a lot of background-H has had mental health and addiction issues and has been verbally abusive to me-more so since getting pregnant. And has been calling family, friends of mine and GP etc to say I'm mentally ill..
So I've not been sure of of what's been going on with SS. They said they were doing a family assesment but that was 2 months ago. I did speak to them on the phone a few weeks ago and told them H had moved out for a while due to the arguing.
I had a missed call from them yesterday and then they came round a few hours later as I hadn't returned the call ( they didn't leave a message ).
The SW was surprised to see H here -he only moved out for a week , and told me the children were under a child in need plan and if H moved out they would drop the case otherwise they would put them under a child protection plan.
H after agreeing initially to seperation is now saying he won't be bullied by them to move out.
Should have I received any documentation from the SS? I feel confused by it all.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Sorry I should say housing law rather than tenancy law so as not to confuse. But the point remains, people have the right to reside in the marital home whether rented by the spouse or owned by the spouse. If it has been the marital home for a significant length of time ( can't remember how long sorry) then he has rights.

[BelleBoyd]

We've been married for 15 months - H moved in when we got married,and I've owned this house for 3 years.

[AuntieStella]

You are married, and the property is a marital asset. And whatever it might mean to you right now, it is recent purchase (21 months before your marriage) and you can't just change the locks.

You need proper legal advice about separation. And use organisations like Women's Aid for advice if you need it.

But the main thing is to engage with SS, and find out what is being considered for the protection plan. You told them 2 months ago he'd moved out, then they found on visiting that he hadn't. I am not surprised the SW is considering continuing and possibly extending support.

[Longtalljosie]

You've already had one conversation where you've said "we're at risk of losing the children, you have to leave" and he's said no.

You've said you need him to leave the house, and he's said no.

Nothing's actually going to change.

You need to call social services on Monday and tell him you've asked him to leave the family home and he's refused, and what are your options. Tell them your children are more important than your relationship. Before they assume the reverse.

[BelleBoyd]

Yes I will call first thing Monday morning to say just that-that the children are and always have been the most important and that I've asked him to leave.
I've already told the HV this but I need to make it clear to SW too.
SS weren't told he moved out 2 months ago-that was our initial visit. I think the confusion there is that H moved out for a week a few weeks ago at my request but moved back in. I told HV and SW he had moved out and was staying at a friends but I mustn't have made it clear it was only temporary as that's all I could get him to agree to at the time.
H is saying he wants mediation before separating and will tell SS this.
I think this has gone too far now and he should go immediately.

[springydaffs]

Womens Aid is not just for women who want to flee - WA support all aspects of domestic abuse. Call them, OP 0808 2000 247 - better to call between 7 at night and 7 in the morning, the lines are busy during the day (sadly). They will support you to the hilt through this, signposting relevant services eg legal.

I'd also call the police to get it documented that you want him to leave but that he won't - hopefully, your local police will have a domestic abuse unit; but if they don't, at least get it documented with the police that you want him to go but he refuses.

[43percentburnt]

Hi stressed. Can I suggest you keep notes on everything. And email the sw today stating that you need her help as your h is refusing to leave. I would be tempted to email h too and say I have been asking you since x date to move out as our marriage is over. Firstly to appease ss and secondly as evidence to the court as to when you split up when he tries to take half the equity in the house. (Believe me he will do this).

If he gets abusive in any way call the police. Do not hesitate. Can you log with the non emergency line today that you are asking your husband to leave and he may become abusive so it is on record and you are a high priority.

Have you explained the situation to his parents? Have you told them that his refusal to leave will lead to the continuation of ss involvement. It is likely to ultimately lead to him only having contact in a contact centre thus meaning they may not have any contact at all. Would this motivate them to help?

Ss will keep extensive notes. I suggest you do too and email ss regularly to keep an audit trail. Do not defend your husband in any way. Tell them you have asked him to leave many times but physically you cannot remove him from the property which is in your sole name. Ask them can you legally change the locks and remove his possessions. Put that in an email to them today. Ring the police and ask them if you can legally remove him. Document their response in the email to ss. This will evidence that you are doing something to remove him, not just having a fun weekend with your husband hoping ss will go away. Call women's aid and ask them how to remove him.

In the meantime if you have nowhere to go, stop washing, cooking etc for him. Do not live like a family. As a drug user etc ss will not take the risk of something happening to the children. They will not be 100% sure that it is him refusing to go or you wanting to be with him. If he won't leave and you have asked him to go then they are justified in saying you cannot protect the kids from him.

Could you stay with a friend?

Good luck op, ensure you evidence to ss that you are protecting your children and that your marriage is over. Ask ss if they will arrange contact via a contact centre for him explain you want it to be supervised by someone other than yourself. Your husband is clearly delusional if he thinks ss won't remove the children.

[Lweji]

Mediation is never good when there is abuse.

You could agree to mediation IF he moves out, but then walk out the minute he uses it to abuse you (probably the first session). Otherwise, you can use it to address practical issues and his addictions with the view of making him a better father.

I do think you should try other agencies, WA and NCDV, so that you are armed with knowledge to kick him out legally if you need to.

[Doinmummy]

Hi Op, I've been following your story , sorry you are going through all this.

I'm sure it won't happen if you get DH to leave but just to warn you , SS can and do take children into care with no warning at all.

It happened to me. SW, DD and I all sitting in my lounge, DD kicked off and bang! SW made the decision on the spot, right there and then that she had to go I to care.

[Spero]

Your children should only be removed with no warning if the situation is extremely serious - SW have to have a court order or they have to persuade the police to use their powers to take your children into police protection. And this needs to have very serious justification.

You might find this post helpful, which talks about when interim removal of children can happen.

www.childprotectionresource.org.uk/category/the-law/key-legal-principles/interim-removal/

I hope you managed to speak with someone from children's services today. I agree with everyone who has said it is vital that you understand what they want you to do and by when. If nothing changes and your husband doesn't move out, that could cause a situation to escalate.

You can get an occupation order to get him out, even if he is a legal co-owner. I think you need to get urgent clarity about what they want and then see a family lawyer to get ball rolling re occupation order if he won't co-operate.

If you are worried about his reaction is there anywhere you and children can go for a few weeks while you sort out the occupation order? If it's needed of course.

[Star8369]

how are things today op?

[BelleBoyd]

I spoke to the SW today and she said there wasn't a time frame and seemed satisfied I've asked him to move out and he's looking for somewhere. She said that they are happy with my ability to parent and that's not in question.
She said she'd send me a report of the intial assesment.
I think she's trying to support me and the kids and understands his behaviour.
H also called her and apparently he again tried to say this was all happening because I'm depressed. He then called me saying it's all my fault for saying there was arguing going on. The arguing as he puts it is him rushing about the house screaming, swearing and shouting at me. He's said before I'm a cunt and our son will think I'm a cunt when he grows up as well as almost daily saying I'm sick, ill, not myself etc if I say anything he disagrees with or want to talk about separating. He's also said he'll leave his job or kill himself.
I'm still hopeful he will move out without me having to take a legal route although he wants us to have mediation which I think is a delaying tactic as I said I'd be happy to go once he's moved out. He was totally enraged by that.

[Spero]

I think you need that written assessment urgently and you need to see written down exactly what they are saying they want you to do. This 'no time frame' makes me uneasy. There ought to be a time frame. This is either poor practice, or some wires are getting crossed somewhere.

[AdoraBell]

Threatening suicide is a manipulación táctic, it's supposed to make you back down and tell the SW that everything is now perfect.

[BelleBoyd]

Yes I hate it when he threatens suicide as it's so obviously a controlling tactic.

[knickernicker]

Can anyone advise you about getting him out sooner? It's good SS don't have a time frame but you need one because his verbal abuse is so damaging to you all.

[expatinscotland]

Labelling you mentally ill is also a classical abusive tactic.

[BelleBoyd]

I think he's close to moving out. He's mentioned 2 places as possibles. The verbal abuse has been toned down as he I think he wants to prove it's all my fault. It's just general hostility at the moment.

[Spero]

Regardless of whether or not SW are involved, I would want him out. This is no way for any of you to live, but in particular your children. Even if it doesn't meet the significant harm threshold, it's not good to expose them to this.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

It sounds rubbish

I wonder if you could capture any of the ranting on film/ audio? without risking yourself in any way. Just because it's concrete evidence of his scariness just in case any of his stories stick... Maybe he's too far gone to be credible, so feel free to ignore, especially if there's a risk.

When he finally goes, the sense of freedom and relief will make your heart light and roomy - I remember the sheer joy when my stbxh left. I had got used to the low level constant fear and the need to constantly be watchful to protect my baby. I am wishing you feel that feeling, and hope you believe it will come one day for you x

[ScabbyHorse]

I did mediation with my abusive ex and he managed to manipulate it and the mediator was pretty useless. She'd say things like 'have a cup of tea and calm down, count to ten'. It seems to me it's way too late and not an appropriate situation for mediation. I'd go for counselling on your own.

[BelleBoyd]

Yes I worry mediation would just be going over the same arguments over and over and not getting anywhere and drag this out.
We went to counselling after our DD was born and it wasn't helpful-I often came out crying. I thought the mediation was about how to handle the seperation in regards of helping the children deal with it but realistically he would never keep it to just that.
Perhaps we could do a parenting agreement but I suspect that wouldn't be kept to..

[AdoraBell]

I think Scabby meant counselling for you, to help you build your self esteem and help you through this and beyond. That would be a good idea, rather than mediation. It's not generally recommended with abusive spouses.

Have you spoken to Women's Aid?

[BelleBoyd]

I haven't yet. Been caught up with a lot of family drama. I suspect I know the legal issues involved in forcing him out but I still think he'll go on his own soon as in days.
I went to counselling when our DD was born and it was helpful in making up my mind what to do-we separated then for 2 years but this time I'm sure it's the right thing to do. I had a lot of guilt then about splitting up our family. This time I'm going to try my hardest not to believe his bullshit about how I'm ruining their lives. I'm already feeling positive about the prospect of finally getting rid of him.

[ScabbyHorse]

Wishing you all the best x