Social services threatening child protection plan if husband doesn't move out

[BelleBoyd]

It's a long story-posted about this before.
But in summary we have a 4 year old DD and 3 month DS. My husband rang the HV when DS was 3 weeks old after an argument to tell them I wasn't coping ( untrue btw ), which then led to an emergency visit from HV to see me getting ready to go out shopping with DD and DS all peaceful and fine. I told the HV there had been arguing and that DD had probably been able to hear it on occasion. She then referred us to SS.
So anyway there is a lot of background-H has had mental health and addiction issues and has been verbally abusive to me-more so since getting pregnant. And has been calling family, friends of mine and GP etc to say I'm mentally ill..
So I've not been sure of of what's been going on with SS. They said they were doing a family assesment but that was 2 months ago. I did speak to them on the phone a few weeks ago and told them H had moved out for a while due to the arguing.
I had a missed call from them yesterday and then they came round a few hours later as I hadn't returned the call ( they didn't leave a message ).
The SW was surprised to see H here -he only moved out for a week , and told me the children were under a child in need plan and if H moved out they would drop the case otherwise they would put them under a child protection plan.
H after agreeing initially to seperation is now saying he won't be bullied by them to move out.
Should have I received any documentation from the SS? I feel confused by it all.

[Beautifulmonster]

I can't see how/why they would put in child protection procedures for 'arguing.' It must be far more serious than that. And removing children is a last resort.

Obviously he has to leave but sorry there must be much more evidence that the children could come to harm than you are presenting here. If you genuinely do not know, SS have to make it explicit to you what danger your h is to your children.

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

SS should not only be outlining exactly what they feel the danger is, but they should also be providing the OP with support to get him out of the house if there is any indication that this is problematic.

[dashoflime]

OP

I also don't get how this has happened without a proper assessment or anything in writing. I suggest contacting the Family Rights Group or a solicitor specialising in family law.

About getting your "D"H out of the house safely- try Women's Aid. Or that family law solicitor again.

fwiw- I thinks its pretty shitty that SS would ask you to evict an abusive man without giving you any guidance on how to achieve this legally and safely. And that their approach seems so informal when the issue is so serious.

[BertieBotts]

I'm guessing there was abusive behaviour displayed by the H, which either OP doesn't want to talk about (perfectly fine, it's her business) or possibly is not recognising certain things as being abusive (fairly common - you'll probably look back and see it later).

Not really sure why people are questioning this - it's helpful to give advice based on the information given, not question it unless it's relevant (e.g. asking if he's ever been violent because violence might change the options at hand). OP wants him to leave so it's not a situation where she wants to fight SS, the question is how to get him to leave with minimal disruption to their DD.

OP - see your family lawyer friend. Contact SS and ask if they can support you in any way. Contact your local domestic violence team from your local police - remember DV doesn't just mean physical violence, but verbal abuse (loud and unstable suggests this), emotional abuse/control, etc. NCDV would be a good organisation to contact as well. Women's Aid possibly for advice, but I understand they are of more help when you want to flee.

Would it be possible for DD to go and stay with a friend or relative for a couple of days while you enact the legal procedures to get him out? Or perhaps they would do it while she's at school?

[SolidGoldBrass]

Yes, whatever the situation, you want him gone and have been advised to get him out, so use the police/SS/women's aid to have him removed. You should be able to get an occupation order, which means the police can be called to come and remove him from the house, and if he tries to force his way back in they will come and arrest him. He has forfeited any right to consideration of his feelings.

You will feel a lot better when he's gone.

[Quitelikely]

Tell your DH not to take on social services. He will not win this one. They have powers beyond his. Just don't even go there.

Take the advice from the previous poster who said contact his family to see if they can make him see sense.

Whatever you do, DO Not defend him to the social workers. Otherwise they will see you are protecting him and not your children.

[Lweji]

It depends on the arguments. If it involved name calling or threats, they do emotional damage to the children.
But they must also be concerned about his lies about you. That is abuse and you could use it to get rid of him.
You've been given pointers. I hope you follow them.

[BelleBoyd]

Thanks for all advice. Will call and leave a message for SW now to meet or speak to her on Monday to try and clarify what's going on.
I've told the SW/HV about Hs verbal abuse and that is the reason they are giving for this. H has been calling HV,GP and probably others to say I'm abusive, suicidal, mentally ill etc for 2 months now so maybe that's also part of their reason?
It seems harsh from them but then I do think his behaviour is damaging to us all. I just want a chance to get things sorted calmly.

[gamerchick]

You may not get the chance to sort things calmly.. will you be calm when they come and take your kids?

They WILL take your kids and whether you get them back or not depends on how you cooperate. Are you going to wait until they do before you kick him out? Would you rather they went through the trauma of being away from you?

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

Get dd to stay out or pack a bag and leave.

Honestly do bricks and mortar mean that much above kids ? I don't understand when people won't leave because they don't want to lose the house but are at risk if losing their actual children !

Maybe the ss can see you reluctance to make a choice and are doing it for you.

[BelleBoyd]

I can't see how they can take my kids immediately. Obviously I am beside myself with worry that it's a possibility. I just can't see how they can do that with no warning or communication. I want H out. I've asked him to leave. I can't just change the locks-it is his house too. I am finding it hard to think I have to leave here and upset the kids when he should leave now. I'm just trying to reason with him for the sake of the kids.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

All this talk of losing the children is inflammatory. They can't take your children without notice, communication and a court order. There needs to be strong grounds and a magistrate needs to agree. Basically there needs to be enough reason to believe the children are at immediate risk of significant harm. You haven't indicated that that is the case.
Although, I'm sure there is more to their concerns than overhearing arguments.

[something2say]

They jolly well can. Emergency protection orders etc. Does happen.

I won't type much as everyone has already.

But I advise you engage with social services closely. Addiction problems? He needs to leave x

[BertieBotts]

Right, it does happen, but they're not going to swoop in over the weekend and remove them. Calm down. Mad assertions are not going to help the OP.

OP - you need to get professional advice ASAP, which means over the weekend if possible. Call your friend, call 101, anybody who can help you.

I think the time is past for reasoning? He doesn't sound like a reasonable person.

[FriendofDorothy]

You should have received documentation. You must have been invited to meeting tho?

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

Do you not think the kids will be upset if they get taken from you because you can't see how they could.

You have been warned op yet you still don't believe it.

I left my ex with bin bags and covered my dd1 in a quilt, late at night ,jumped in a taxi and went to my DGM house. I left everything behind. Admittedly it was private rented in my name but I knew he wouldn't leave with out a fight so I went. A home is what you make anywhere with your dc if they are happy.

What bothers me is you don't seem to take there threats seriously.why the fuck would you risk it. Leave the house and force a sale after - when the kids are safe and ss of your back.

Please take heed of what I said about my friend losing parental custody of her two ds.

If the ss have it in mind what they want to do, they will do it unless you jump through hoops. They have nothing to prove here , it's you.

What are you waiting for? Lock him out- when he kicks off phone police or leave.

The ss will be monitoring you and your decisions now

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

I think your making excuses

[Bluebelljumpsoverthemoon]

You can change the locks, it's your house and you'll lose your kids if you don't. Call the police if he won't leave and becomes abusive. Or have the locks changed when he leaves the house, have all his stuff bagged up for him, have someone stay with you for security and contact women's aid for advice on keeping him away from you legally.

You keep mentioning that you can't do anything and must tiptoe around him because you don't want to upset your dd, I hope you realise that being taken from you will be far more upsetting to her than having her father yelling outside your house and possibly taken away by the police.

Stop making excuses for him, he's a mentally unstable, bullying abuser who spreads vicious lies about you, who doesn't care for the possibility of ss removing your kids, who's incapable of listening to sense and who's refusing to respect your wishes and your children's security by insisting on staying where he's unwanted and causing harm. It's time to play hardball, your only focus should be getting him out of the house, have the police on speed dial and make a plan that'll work now.

[careeristbitchnigel]

They are not threatening you with removal of your children. A protection plan as very, very, very different to having children removed. Lots of families have family files/protection plans in relation to their children, it doesn't mean they are at imminent danger of losing their children. It means more intervention, more monitoring and more assistance to manage the risk that your DH poses within the home. A protection plan is basically the SS services strategy for trying to keep your home safe.

[careeristbitchnigel]

here is some relevant info on CPP plans - they have replaced the "at risk" register

[ChasedByBees]

OP, I remember your previous treads and your DJ does sound abusive. Please report this to the police and GP and start taking legal to have him removed. Let SS know all you are doing and seek their advice as well.

You say your DD is very anxious, is this because of your DH?

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Take it seriously. Phone ss, unravel confusion and ascertain what meetings and contact you've missed. This is essential.

You can't credibly claim admin error further down the line if they are using your non engagement in the process as evidence that you cant/ wont comply with ss.

Get legal advice. On ss as well as getting dh out of the house. Don't go around believing that it's a big fuss about nothing -- told to you by people who have really strong motives for peddling that idea. You need facts, not beliefs.

You seem ambivalent about your dp, do you want to leave him? Or patch it up?

[AdoraBell]

I can kind of see how the house means so much. I grew up with so much instabalty that I really need bricks and morter. But, if I was in danger of losing my DDs I would move into a tent To get away from the source of the problem.

Seriously, change the looks and put his things in the garden/Street and cooperate with SS.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Yes there are emergency protection orders and police protection powers, but that is not what is going on here. The OP has been advised that the LA plans to hold a case conference with a view to putting the children on CP plans. Talk of emergency protection orders really isn't appropriate.

It has also been pointed out several times that he has a right to live there. She can't just change the locks it's illegal. Social services concerns do not override tenancy law. She needs to get him out legally, or get out herself and force him out subsequently.