I think DP needs to go, had enough of the abuse.

[MoonshineWashingLine]

But how do I go about this? We have a Dd who is 2, we are not very well off and I am scared of how he will react to me asking him to leave.

There is a lot of back story but basically I have been on the receiving end of domestic abuse, on and off, for nearly 2 years. I can't take it anymore. Just as I think things are improving he does it again and we are back to sqaure one. I don't feel like I love him anymore and I sometimes cringe if he tries it on.

I know he needs to go, but how?

[Bubblegoose]

If your friend was telling you your story, what would you say?

People have their own agendas. I don't know what's going on with your friends or your mum, but I find it shocking and sad they're advising you to stay. What's your mum's relationship like?

If my DD told me even half of the stuff you've experienced I would be getting into my car and fetching her.

[captainmummy]

That's the great thing about Mumsnet - there is a 'collective' of information. If you ask just one person, you will get one answer. Ask 100 people, you will get lots of answers, but most of them will be the same one. (It's the thinking behind 'ask the audience' - most will know, some will guess. Take the 'most' answers.) They will be projecting their own upbringing/opinions/problems onto yours.

And as AF says - they are invested in it. They don't want you to jump out of the box you are in - 'settled, happily-married dd', or 'happy friend' in case you suddenly need something other than what you have been giving all these years ie attention, time, wine, tissues, thought.

Once you've done it, you will find that their opinions will change.

Please don't try any more. If anyone needs to change, it's him. Not you.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

My dm "supported me in staying" for years. Everytime I asked "should I try?" She would give me "of course".

Now, years after leaving, she will say "I wish you'd left him sooner", "you needn't have tried for so long to make it work".

Which makes me wish she could have said that at the time!

It's normal IME for friends and family to support you as you are, but to fear supporting a change. It doesn't make them right.

When I left my friends and family suddenly all said, "Chris! You're so much happier, you're so much more you!" And once I had left they were more than happy to support the single me. Now they support the remarried me too.

I don't think they are good at transition!

[MoonshineWashingLine]

Thanks, I see what you're saying. It makes sense I suppose! They're not going to say 'yeah just leave him' when there's a child involved as they may even think we should stay together for the kids (hardly any of my friends have kids). My mum said only I can know how I really feel and only I can decide what to do. She was quite objective about the whole thing really.

[littleballerina]

I stayed in an emotionally abusive relationship for years 'because of the children'.
Thanks to advice from mn I left over a year ago and am now in a relationship with a kind, gentle and very beautiful man!
My first stop was CAB who were really helpful, women'said were also fantastic.
It was hard and its been a bumpy road but life is so much happier for all of us. Even xh says he's happier.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

There are plenty of children now adults on here who dearly wish that their parents had split up when they were far younger. Your family and friends have their own agendas; ignore such people who ever advise you to stay for "the sake of the children". A child cannot be burdened with such a choice that the parent made.

I remember you from previous postings; I would reiterate to you that counselling is never ever recommended where there is abuse within the relationship. I doubt very much this man would attend any such counselling anyway because at heart he feels like he is doing and has done nothing wrong.

Did you manage to contact WA?.

[superhands]

OP, you say you've had times when the relationship has been great and you've been very happy. If your friends/family had said, at this point, 'he's no good for you, you should leave him' no doubt you would have been outraged and done no such thing. Why? Because you knew him better. You were the one in the relationship. the same applies now. YOU know him better and this is your life. I think you get more people saying to leave him on mumsnet than in RL because there are more who have walked in your shoes. It must be hard to know the sadness, humiliation and constant walking on eggshells this relationship must bring unless you have actually been there. Hope it all works out for you. x

[AnyFuckerHQ]

Great point, super

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Other people who haven't been through similar also worry about lots of future unknowables. They may think that life as a single parent is terrible and anything is better than that. They won't be able to see the daily strain placed upon you by living with someone like this.

When they are gone the relief you feel is incredible. I swear I stopped stooping and stood taller. I physically felt as though a literal weight had been removed from my shoulders.

It was very strange. And there are challenges to being single, but they were far simpler than the ones I faced in my marriage. And I had full control over how I dealt with them.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

It is very natural to want to believe someone you love is ready and willing to change. It is also predictable that an aggressor can be very persuasive when trying to get their partner back under their control. Your friends aren't with him every day and night, behind closed doors, so how can they know what he is like? His family won't want him crashing out at their place, brooding and sulking, so of course they'll tell you he is doing his best.

He was never like this before dd was born. Well, she's been here for two whole years now, so if he hasn't come to terms with her being around and things having changed, (financial/sexual/social), what has taken him so long, how much longer does he expect you to tolerate verbal abuse and him breaking and/or chucking things around?

Gooing back to what you said earlier, at the start:
There is a lot of back story.
I realise you have to be somewhat guarded in what you put on the internet but is there more you haven't told us, otherwise I can't see why he should get special treatment and forever have more chances dished out.

[MoonshineWashingLine]

Yeah, I would never condone staying together for the kids. It doesn't work at all. It's just what one of my friends kind of said, but when I went in to more detail they kinda took it back!
superhands and chris thank you, you make some very good points! :)

Donkeys the back story is just to do with how long its been going on and the reasons I think DP is like this. Mostly down to his upbringing, he had a pretty chaotic family life and saw a lot of anger and aggression. But its no excuse. I'm not sure if I have actually posted details on this thread yet so here goes....

I finally realised this is abuse when it got really bad just before Xmas when we had a really minor disagreement about dinner (yes, dinner!) and he went up the wall. Started shouting, swearing and smashing stuff up in front of DD and threatened to not look after her (I had work and a dentist appointment) he then proceeded to do what he always does after an aggressive outburst and go to bed and 'sleep it off'. In the end he did look after her but I was a in complete mess and had to have a root canal done while really stressed, not pleasant!

Then another time about a week after the above, I was really ill, throwing up and feverish etc, he had had a late night at work and hadn't had much sleep. He stayed up most of the day to help out but then just before tea time he deliberately lied to my face and said he was 'just going to chill out upstairs for ten minutes' but he then went straight to sleep, leaving me to look after DD and make the tea while nearly passing out from illness. When I dragged myself upstairs and asked for his help as I could barely stand, he instantly shouted and swore at me because I 'woke him up in the wrong way' and i was 'being pathetic'. This led to him threatening to 'push me out of the room'. Then I said I was going to call my mum so she could help, he tried to grab my phone off me and said he would push her out of the house if she came round. I told him i would phone the police if he did that. He then ripped the safety gate off the wall in a rage and stormed upstairs and went to sleep again. All this in front of DD. Thankfully my mum came round to help out and she saw how scared we both were and stayed a while. He stayed upstairs asleep until she had gone. I think I should have ended it then.

Every time I think of what he has done I think I need to end it. But somehow I am still here. He is so damn apologetic and upset and has even had panic attacks if he thinks we might break up that it makes me feel bad and I stay. :(

[wyrdyBird]

These incidents are awful, Moonshine. Just terrible. Very frightening to experience, and absolutely terrifying to your dd.

I'm at a loss to know how your mum could even suggest you stay in this dangerous relationship. I can only assume she's picked up some damaging lessons herself.

Your DD needs to be protected at all costs. You have to end it before it gets worse (and it will ... and please, don't assume your DD won't be a future target, as he's already openly displaying aggression in front of her.)

Don't be faked out by his apologies and panic attacks. This is more manipulation. The panic attacks may be genuine, but they will happen because he cannot stand the idea of not having someone to control. He needs someone to control to feel normal, and he will cling to it at any price. Including your health and wellbeing, and that of your DD.

[Dinnaeknowshitfromclay]

To those who think you should stay and 'let' him get councelling. Let him get it outside of the relationship. From your most recent post, I would have gone that day, especially as there is a sofa at Mums. I would have left if he called me a cunt though. My parents did not go to the efforts they went to with me for some total knob to call me a cunt.
I suspect those that are advising you stay think you are handling it OK. You sound a little detached (understandably) in your posts. Seriously though you should not be questioning it, just the means and execution of your flight from this horrible horrible man. The longer you stay the more acceptable this behaviour is to him. Sorry you have this in your life.

[4free]

hi iv de lurked for this.......i just want to say how much your post resonates with me....i was in a very similar situation, with a very similar partner, but i stuck it out for 16 years...yep 16 years....it was only 8 months ago that the light bulb was switched on and i realised it was abuse, i discovered MN, i read all the abuse links, and i ticked nearly every box on the WA site :/
Anyway, once u realise its abuse, once u start looking for the signs and waiting for the cycle to begin again there's no going back, i had my head in the sand for so long, he'd try, he'd be nice, say all the right things, then boom, id done something/said something i shouldn't have and off we'd go again, id cry, we'd talk, he'd make promises, id want to believe him...and so on...
4 weeks ago after another big outburst (in front of DC), after being screamed at that i was evil, a bitch, worst person in the world..all because id dared to wake him up before 10am....id had enough, i just looked at him and knew, i didn't want it any more, so i packed up me n the kids (3 DCS) and stayed at my mums, was very cramped, but i knew i had no other choice....i did return home because of practicalities..but i told him to leave, it was over.
he left. yes it was hard, yes there's been tears and tantrums along the way, but enough is enough, im finally free, and its a massive relief.
i really hope you find the strength to do what's right for you and your daughter, i know how difficult it is, but walking on eggshells and making sure your not doing anything 'wrong' is soul destroying...it stripped me of my confidence, my self esteem, i was a nervous wreck...i am regaining all those things now, although i have my low moments, been a single mum is challenging (but tbh i was practically a single mum anyway) but i am so much happier. and you will be too.

[LegoCaltrops]

Your family want you to let him try counselling, are they aware how long you've been waiting for him to start the process? As I think he's had enough time - if he really wanted to sort things, he'd have got off his arse and got on the waiting list at least.

The contrite behaviour, 'I love you' texts, general good behaviour, is manipulative - he wants to preserve the status quo I.e. you sticking around, and hopes you will overlook his appalling outbursts if he's nice enough in between. He sounds an awful lot like my ex, I know exactly what you mean about cringing when he comes near you. Mine was never actually physically violent to me but it was going that way, he also used to behave super nicely after having a go at me, it's a classic pattern. I'm saddened but not surprised that your family arent more supportive of you.

Defini call CAB and/or Women's Aid for help with leaving, benefits, advice on moving out or getting him to leave. Remember, you are doing the right thing, you DD will grow up much happier and have better relationships herself, if you model a healthy relationship for her.

[LegoCaltrops]

Well done to you for that massive step, 4free.

[4free]

Thank you lego. it was a massive step, and to the outside world its been a big shock, nobody realised how bad its been, iv hidden it very well. he was/is a master gas lighter..everything was always my fault, it still is in his eyes.
i also cringed when ever he came near me/touched me. sex became a major issue..if only i gave him more he'd be so much happier/nicer/calmer......so i did ( i cried each time afterwards) he wasnt that much happier/nicer/calmer...if only i hugged him more...kissed him more...this that n other..it was never ending.
my needs/wants were lost, unimportant, it was all about him. so draining.

yes he also had panic attacks/Anxiety...this was due to me been too confident, having fun, going out...its all about control, making sure i was on edge/nervous.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Thank you Moonshine even a fraction of those episodes would be enough for me as a friend to question the wisdom of you trying to be patient and let him patch things up through weekly counselling. We all have stresses and 'off days' but going on a rampage in the house especially in front of DD is crossing a line.

And as bad as the he-man stuff is, this is chilling:

To top it off when he turned to go upstairs I think I sighed and shook my head and he comes back down and says 'what was that?!' I told him I didn't say anything and he said 'good.' All with that horrible aggressive look on his face.

Because underlying any seemingly quiet phase is the threat that you are walking a tightrope.

[MoonshineWashingLine]

4free I know exactly what you mean about the 'if only i was nicer/hugged him/kissed him/had sex with him' thing, he's done that loads. Our sex life is nothing like it used to be. I started being very uncomfortable with him in that department a long time ago. Rarely it seems to pick up but then, same as everything else, he says/does something awful and i can't be near him again.

I'm just trying to find the right time to let go now i think. I don't know if there is such a thing but some days certainly seem better than others for asking him to leave. I am quite worried about how i will cope financially with out him. But i suppose there's always benefits etc.

Donkeys that really did disturb me, what he said on Saturday, it was the way he said it more than anything. It was horrible. Makes me shudder just thinking about it.

I don't think I can ask him to go today as I have family up visiting tomorrow who we don't see very often so maybe tomorrow night or monday night is best. I hate this just plodding along like everything is fine. It's doing my head in now. He is just carrying on being normal and overly loving and trying too hard to do nice things. It's kinda creepy.

[dogsnfrogs]

Please Moonshine, gather up all your courage and finish this. For your sake, and for your DD's sake. You have been given some very wise advice here, do act on it.

I'm in exactly the same position as you, except that I'm old enough to be your mother, and I've spent 10 years thinking my depression was due to events before I met my DP (some of it was, but I suspect now that our dysfunctional relationship made it continue much longer than it might otherwise have done). My light bulb moment came when he suddenly lost it in front of some friends, who were as surprised & confused as I was at the accusations. It let me see that it really wasn't me - it was him.

It's very scary, isn't it, thinking about that moment that you tell him for the last time? I'm trying to find the right time too, but I'm determined to do it. And I'm looking forward to being on my own. You are young, you still have years of happiness ahead of you, and so does your DD. Show her that you can be a strong, independent, happy mother - so that she can follow your example and grow up to be a strong, independent, happy woman too.

[4free]

you may not feel ready yet, that's ok, its scary, it can take time until you reach breaking point. i wasn't ready 4 months ago, but i knew it was coming, so i started reading up on things, reading other women's stories on here, made me realise what i wanted from life/relationships, made me see how unhealthy mine was, i started planning, i started looking into benefits, made sure i put everything i needed (paperwork) in one place.
you WILL come to that point, your waking up to it now, and there will be a day where you'l know enough is enough.
stay strong moonshine..you can do it :)

[Fairy1303]

Counselling will not help him, because he chooses to do this to you. The fact that he grew up like this is irrelevant, he made the decision to emotionally abuse you in this way.

His behaviour is absolutely classic. The things you are saying are classic.

If you stay, your daughter will end up in a violent relationship too. Any sons you have are likely to grow to emulate him - treating their partners and quite probably you like it too.

Your family are telling you to give him a chance because

A) they do not understand abusive men - lots and lots of people dont

B) they haven't lived it. They can't feel the way that you are gradually ground down day by day.

OP my relationship was emotionally abusive - it sounds exactly like yours. It was only when I had my son and it became minorly physically abusive that I left. My mum and family told me to give it a chance, marriage is for life etc.

I thought living apart, him getting counselling, anger management would save us. Then he dragged his heals, starting making demands about when I would move back in.

Read the cycle of abuse by the way - he's horrendous, pushing you to breaking point and then becomes the perfect parter, sometimes for weeks or months. Sound familiar? It will all just repeat again my love. Over and over.

Get Lundy Bandcrofts book. You won't listen to me now, but if you read that it might.

You will leave one day. It might as well be today.

[AngelaDaviesHair]

Worried his mother thinks 'trying to change' is enough to mean you have to stay and give him the benefit of the doubt. What if he 'tries' but doesn't actually quite manage to change for the next 20 years? Are you still expected to be there? That's your life and DD's life ruined. It's an argument based on him and his wishes and feelings being vastly more important than you and your DD.

He may improve. But staying in the hope that he will is a risk. Please don't assume the current status quo is as bad as he will get. He could very well get worse. Obviously he has a good side, and his remorse may even be genuine. But it is also worthless if it doesn't stop him from abusing you. Chances are, given his background, he hasn't got the tools to stop his behaviour but please don't let compassion for the damage he has suffered keep you in this awful situation. Give him empathy from a safe distance, and protect your DD.

I wish you all the best.

[superhands]

How awful for you and DD, OP. That horrible, uncontrollable rage must have been very frightening for you. Now imagine he was twice the size he is. That's what it's like for your DD. The fact that he would behave this way in front of her is very worrying. Personally I would not rely on 'asking him to leave' as this gives him control. He can refuse. Then what? He has already threatened to get physical as well which is also worrying (towards you AND your mum??) I would only rely on what I could completely control so would leave with DD and some stuff whilst he was out.

[MoonshineWashingLine]

It was horrible superhands. I am still trying to find the strength to go. My plan was to try and be elsewhere and ask him to leave over the phone or something.
Meanwhile he is being the 'perfect partner' again. He keeps going on about having another child and he knows full well that isn't going to happen any time soon. I actually told him to stop going on about it the other day. I expect its all part of his 'trying to get me back on board' thing.
We are meant to be going out on Saturday as we have tickets to a gig. I want to go but its going to be very odd. I am finding him harx to be around at the moment, what with his constant blathering about our future.