My DH is always right. Always.

[purrpurr]

When I got together with my DH six years ago, we quickly discovered, after the honeymoon period where we just about agreed on everything, that actually we are polar opposites on everything. All the inconsequential stuff. All the important stuff. Totally different. I even found out recently that he considers my taste to be garish. It's like nothing about us suits the other.

The unpleasant undertone to these fundamental differences is that he is older than me (only by 7 years) and assumes a somewhat parental/older brother attitude when it comes to disagreements. As if I'm just a bit slow on the uptake, possibly, or haven't finished school yet.

We reached an amicable truce several years ago, because we do hugely enjoy some areas of our relationship, and we make each other laugh and think, so it wasn't worth quitting the relationship even though it means we just can't civilly discuss politics or anything important.

Sorry, gibbering merrily away but don't want to dripfeed. I'll get to the point.

I'm a SAHM. Our DD is 4 months old. I do the lion's share, but DH will contribute. The trouble is, he will argue with me about how I do things, and question and question and quibble over and over. Discussions reoccur every week. I feel like he can't stand not being the one 'in the right' in this particular instance, even though I really am not heavy-handed about 'being the one at home', I really don't swan about like I am All That just because I do 90% of the parenting, but I get this sense from him that his opinion is still the only one that matters here, he is right, and he is going to do things his way, even when it detrimentally affects both of us.

It's really colouring my feelings for him significantly. I can't help but dislike him. I feel like it's the height of arrogance. The equivalent would be for me to appear in his office and gesture casually towards his computer and say, 'well, that's wrong for a start, but I'll fix it.'

Maybe there's even this sense of jostling for control, which I don't know how to handle. Next we're going to be arranging performance meetings and talking in corporate business speak.

Help?!

[LookingThroughTheFog]

Wonderful hecate once posted on a similar thread that it would be wonderful if our life choices were: 1) shit thing or 2) marvellous thing but mostly they aren't.

I'm not going to lie, leaving him would be hard. But living with him is hard. So pick your hard.

Chubfuddler, this is glorious and very wise. I'm going to copy it to a desktop notice for future reference.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Best to ask for a response in person though, or I suspect you might get a ten page response, running through points from first to thirty-seventhly...

[EldritchCleavage]

I agree with the consensus above. I just wanted to add:

Does it matter who is right or who is to blame? If it does, it matters a lot less than the simple question of whether you are satisfied with the status quo or not. Can you really go on as you are?

We women are conditioned to stay, to put up with things, to defer. But if this is not working for you, you can change it, whether by leaving or something short of that. That's not wrong.

As for dealing with your husband over the most important things like treatment of your DD, sometimes 'winning the argument' is less important than just putting a boundary in place. You may not have an answer to all his clever points. You are still allowed to say 'No, I'm just not doing it.'

The fact that in any given situation you may struggle to articulate your feelings does not mean your feelings can always be discounted.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

purr if this pattern continues, him thinking he is superior and you are less than a person you may be walking inot a lifetime of abuse gore you and your dd. my x did the same talked over. would mother allow me to disagree. thought he was older and wiser. it did not end well.

You say you see this situation and posters do not leave. you are right, very few leave immediately without a deal breaker incident. but eventually with planning a lot of them do. that is why there are do many of us referring to our awful controlling x. we left

However, I think you want to give this a shot. you want to have the serious conversation.
Ok. here are my suggestions. have the serious conversation at a planned time. i.e. we need to talk, Tuesday night we will talk.
Take notes in the lead up to the talk of incidents in the past week of him being controlling and how you felt. and what he should/could have said instead.

Takes notes from this tread of points you want to get across e.g. you deserve respect. you are entitled to an opinion.
Mskea list of specific issues regarding Dd. negotiate those.

But actually go in either a written agenda. use it to keep on track.

And make it absolutely clear that there will be consequences and that you will stick to those consequences if he does not shape up.

You are earth better. remember that. you are just as much a person as he is.

[tallwivglasses]

Your last post is heartbreaking, OP. you know the answer. You can't fix this, he has to. Does he want to? Or does he like things exactly the way they are?

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

You are worth better. sorry rushed post on phone

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I can't avoid the idea that I could fix this, if I got more forceful. If I sat him down and told him not to treat me like this. That sounds horribly naive, but what if, if we sit down in a Serious Conversation, we can talk it out and fix it?"

Did your mother manage to "fix" your Dad?. No, she was systematically ground down by him and trod on those eggshells accordingly. All that crap got passed onto you and those lessons have indeed carried over into your relationship with your H today.

Women tend to stay in relationships well past their sell by date as well for one thing because they have been conditioned to want to fix problems. I do not think he feels he has or is treating you at all badly so from his viewpoint there is nothing to so call "fix" in the first place. Your parents both taught you a lot of damaging lessons when growing up and that legacy continues to this day.

Telling him not to treat you like this is about as effective frankly as spitting in the ocean (particularly if I am correct by thinking that he could well be narcissistic in terms of personality).

What do you want to teach your child about relationships here?.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

Op you can try to fix it if you want but within very clear parameters.
If he won't have the conversation
if he won't engage during the conversation
if he does not change after the conversation

then he is not going to fix and you have to do something about it.

in which case you cannot go oh well it is not fixed i will just have to put up with it.

He is unlikely to change but he definitely won't if there are no consequences.

You need to be prepared to carry it thought.

If you do try, and he changes result and if not then you can leave knowing you have given him fair warning.

[Mabelface]

What did he do to your daughter? If that's worrying, I think it's all the reason you need to take action. Oh, and you won't be able to fix this, as he doesn't think he needs fixing, he's quite happy with the status quo. You deserve to be respected as an equal human being. Listen to the wise ladies on here. x

[flippingebay]

One of the issues here IMO is that you've let things slide with him for such a long time, that now when it's important, such as your DC, you are now experiencing what he's always been like. It's just you've never out your foot down before.

Someone said earlier about a mummy tigress and I think hats exactly right... You've been a push over so far, and now because it's your DC, you've become a tigress

[Munzle]

This sounds a little like my husband, who actually has huge self-esteem and confidence problems himself. He behaves like this when he is depressed. When he's not depressed, he recognises that he can be like that and makes a genuine effort to change and he has definitely changed. For example, he used to go on and on whenever I spent any money. I made the point that we had chosen for me to stay at home and him to work as that's what's best for our family, and by him questioning my spending he was sending the message that he didn't trust me to take decisions on how to spend our money. He has pretty much stopped making any comments at all now. Just saying, i don't believe anyone's just a prat without reason - is there something he needs to get sorted? Does he need some help sorting out some issues?

[Chubfuddler]

Maybe he is just being a prat because he's just an arsehole?

I get really bloody frustrated with the constant repetition of the fiction that women are supposed to work out what is wrong all the time and then fix it.

[Orangeanddemons]

My dh can be a bit like this unless checked. I bought him a badge that looked like an old prefects badge with word perfect on it, but he wouldn't wear it!

If he starts I always do the complete opposite of what he tries to get me to do. Works a treat. Otherwise I totally ignore him or tell him to shut up

[SisterMonicaJoan]

MortifiedAdams I really think he may be on the Spectrum [Hmm]

No, he's abusive - end of. That is a dangerous and minimising statement to make and autism is not something you cannot diagnose over the internet. He could be absusive AND on the spectrum but being on the spectrum does not make someone absusive in it's self.

[Jux]

Most of the real genii I know (and I know a fair number, grew up with at least 5 of them!) were actually very humble people and certainly didn't see themselves as superior; definitely didn't behave how your dh does (my dh does the same too - he thinks he's a genius, but the reality is that in comparison to my bro or my dad, he's a bit dim. I suspect yours is too.)

[motherinferior]

Maybe he is just being a prat because he's just an arsehole?

I get really bloody frustrated with the constant repetition of the fiction that women are supposed to work out what is wrong all the time and then fix it

YESSSSSS.

[NanTheWiser]

The more I read, the more concerned I feel about you, purrpurr. There are many far more erudite posts here than I can manage, but they are all saying the same thing.

My father was probably a Narc, from what my mother used to tell me - terribly self-important, and probably a bully. Somehow, women seem to seek out partners with their fathers' traits, for good or bad.

This: I was raised in a home where the opinions of my father were the most important. He was threatening and controlling to boot so it wasn't like he earned respect and we fawned over him, just that in his own insidious ways he scared us into following orders, in the tiniest of ways. You couldn't be fat, for example. As a result my mum found it impossible to be slim and I have never been even remotely bigger than slim until pregnancy., my H had 2 daughters by his first wife, the younger is late 40's and a rebel and a spitfire, so he didn't bother with her. The older girl, now early 50's, was the meek and mild one, and not as intelligent - I've been told that he used to tell her she was "fat, stupid and ugly", and constantly criticised - he made a point of never praising anyone. She became so thin she was almost anorexic, and for her, everything in her life must be absolutely perfect.

Ring any bells? Both daughters have strong narc traits, albeit in different ways, but how much is nature or nurture is impossible to say, both, probably. You don't want your DD to grow up in fear of her father, which she would, undoubtedly.

Don't for a second, believe a Serious Conversation will work - If, IF he is a narc, he lives on a different planet to you, his brain is wired differently, and he lacks empathy with any other human being, therefore he cannot relate anything you say, to himself. He cannot step into your shoes and imagine what you feel.

He knows exactly how to pull your strings, doesn't he? You were probably rather vulnerable, as you say you look up to men as authority figures, and were grateful he proposed. Narcs seek out the vulnerable, because they want the control - my H used to say to me that POWER was the most important thing to him - I used to think he was a bit odd, but of course now I know why.

Nothing you do will change him, can you really imagine what it will be like living like this for the rest of your life? Absolute hell.

Attila again is right on the button, and I'll say again - look up NPD and see if he fits.

And Radical, I'm sorry you have found yourself in this situation - it comes as a bit of a shock, doesn't it? But now you know, you are armed with the weapons to deal with it - you sound an intelligent person, you just need to make your plans whatever they are. Mine was somatic too.

No other advice to give except, make your plans to leave, if you want to save your sanity.

[southfieldsmum]

They have a word for this kind of thinking and behaving - NARCISSISM. Plain and simple and I should know, am attempting to re-educate my narcissistic husband (who is also super nice) after years of me accepting that there is one perspective for our relationship and that was his. It is a nasty shock for him that I am putting up boundaries and saying actually no, no longer being 'laid back' and happy to be told what to do. Incidentally he is also 7 years older and the power has always been wildly imbalanced in his favour. Think you are getting some good advice, start as you mean to go on!

[purrpurr]

South, so you are fixing it? How? Just behavioural change from you?

Got a text today telling me he missed me and then when he got home he told me I look lovely. He's so nice. When he's nice like this, it's hard to believe I could have started this thread. It's like someone's turned a lovely heat lamp on.

[southfieldsmum]

Trying to. OUr relationship worked really well for a long time as if was 'good' - listened to him, agreed with him was 'supportive' (i.e.: just going along with his bright unrealistic ideas) and so he was mostly nice, generous but oh so controlling. But after 3 children and a career change from me i began to tolerate it less and less - I was utterly loosing touch with myself and the constant criticism (because thats what it is - he may say it is 'advise' but essentially you are being told 'you are wrong') and outbursts was wearing me down. It is no surprise that as my self esteem grew my tolerance of him and his behaviour shrunk. So... I have become very hard-arse. He is reacting as expected - outraged/shocked/increasingly controlling but right now I am continuing. I eventually became less scared of the big rows, more honest (which I had been criticised for not being truthful enough) and just less concerned with saying not or upsetting him. This was obviously not over night but where we are at the moment and guess what - the world has not ended! All my good thoughts to you tonight, enjoy his good side and remember that he is also a whole person made of good and bad - same as you. BUT you do not have to take this shit.

[southfieldsmum]

Oh also important to think of narcissism as being on a spectrum so that your narcissist may not be the same as or as severe as somebody else's. So when people say 'oh you can never change a narcissist' that is not necessarily true for your particular flavour of narcissism. IMPO

[Chubfuddler]

Is it worth it? Really?

A marriage is supposed to be a mutually loving partnership not.... well words fail me for what the previous poster describes. It sounds shit.

[Jux]

Perhaps that is working for you, south, but how long is it taking and what are children absorbing about the relationship in the meantime?

Purr, your dd is very young and whatever damage is being done is minimal at the moment, and will be quickly forgotten if it stops now.

On the other hand, you could take years trying to bring him to a point where he behaves with respect towards you - or it may never happen. And while you're doing that your dd is learning everything about relationships that you learnt.

[southfieldsmum]

is it worth it? excellent question and is asked on a daily basis. 15 years, 3 children, like purr's husband has excellent qualities but due to his own shit upbringing has some very entrenched beliefs about himself, others and how the world works. Am pushing very hard for therapy. But yes, this is not an indefinite arrangement and I will call it quits. BUT I HAD to try something - I'm still too emotionally in it to just LTB. Call me whatever but for me I had to really know that I've tried.

[MrsMinkBernardLundy]

I think that is it in some cases, the trying, the serious conversation is not necessarily going to change anything. in fact it probably won't. but this is for you not him.

So that you can say, i tried. i gave him a chance to behave reasonably. and once he has had that chance if there is no change you can give yourself permission to leave.

Note it is your permission you need,.not his.
And he needs to change. not you. the only change you need yo make it to realise you deserve better.

He is not always right. he thinks he is. big difference.