"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

<br />
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.<br />
<br />
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)<br />
<br />
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.<br />
<br />
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;<br />
<br />
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'<br />
<br />
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. <br />
<br />
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.<br />
<br />
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. <br />
<br />
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a><br />
<br />
I started with this book and found it really useful.<br />
<br />
Here are some excerpts:<br />
<br />
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.<br />
<br />
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.<br />
<br />
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:<br />
<br />
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".<br />
<br />
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".<br />
<br />
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."<br />
<br />
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"<br />
<br />
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."<br />
<br />
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.<br />
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YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."<br />
<br />
Helpful Websites<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a><br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a><br />
<br />
More helpful links:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a><br />
<br />
Some books:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Homecoming</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a><br />
<br />
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: <br />
<br />
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."<br />
<br />
Happy Posting

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

HellesBelles

Having read some more about your parents I would not advise your son either to go to his toxic grandparents house. Your Mum and Dad will probably be on their "best behaviour" anyway because its their celebration and they are in charge of it. Also they loved being fawned over and your father seems to love being fawned over.

If they are too toxic or difficult for you to deal with then they are too toxic for your vulnerable and defenceless child. I would not be sending over any gifts either; they do not deserve anything from you or your child.

[HellesBellesThinksSometimes]

Thanks Atila - ds wants to see them. They behave very well towards him - badly to me in front of him so he doesn't like that. He is 12 and very good at coming home if he doesn't like their behaviour. I am proud that he has enough self-regard to remove himself from being around people if they make him feel bad. Because of all this, I have left the choice with him and made it clear I will support his choice. I have also said he can change his mind whenever he wishes.

I came across this quote today - it seemed relevant to most of us: When someone tells you, ?You?ve changed,? it might simply be because you?ve stopped living your life their way.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Well yesterday was pleasantley surprising. Had a wonderful day out with dh, he did text mil happy birthday, after being told to by toxic sil to, but apart from that he cba, which was nice to see considering how little effort is put into his birthday. When i asked him what he plans on doing in regards to a gift, he said he isn't bothered. I think he is realising he wants to step away somewhat.

[GoodtoBetter]

That's great, pumpkin! Don't be disheartened if he seems to backtrack a bit though...they'll be working hard to reel him back in.

I had a phonecall from DM full of woe and "I'll be dead soon" type nonsense. Wanted me to take her precious glass bowl wedding present, so it didn't get forgotten "when she dies" . I told her to stop talking nonsense. More bollocks about wanting a chest freezer she can stock up with food "when she's well" as she can't always "walk as far as the shops". Funny that, cos she can walk all around ikea when she comes with us. . I did the "uh huh, yes, good idea, I see" routine but it winds me up.

Then today, took her laptop to be fixed (prearranaged outing) and she was saying she's "struggling with her nerves" and anxiety. She seems alright to me.

I do find the constant ignoring and glossing over/being cheery thing tiring though.

Why can some people just never be happy? She spends so so so so much of her life just being a misery and a worry wart. It tires me out just hearing about it. I got quite depressed myself living with her and I'm not surprised. At least now I can just escape and block it out.

[ThunderbumsMum]

pumpkin great result

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

A bloke writes: good for your DH pumpkin!

This may be something or nothing: when I was 16 I got a bad school report. Report day was always fraught, but this was particularly awful. "DISGRACE! DOWNSTAIRS! NOW!"

Went down, and she knocked me across the kitchen. 5'10" 12 stone woman with PMT vs. 8 stone teenager. There was a rant; didn't pay much attention due to the concussion. Except for this: "My son the blue eyed [the sport I was good at, the sport in which I competed equally with adults, the sport in which Dad took such pride in my achievements]. That's not going to help in the real world, is it, you useless little shit."

Am I wrong for never shedding a tear for her ever, not even at her tuneral?

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

Funeral, sorry.

[HellesBellesThinksSometimes]

YChromosome I suspect you have already done your mourning.

For the mother you should have had.

For the mother you possibly saw occasional glimpses of.

By the time she died, I can imagine that the only emotion left was relief. Relief that she couldn't hurt you any more.

[Hissy]

Y you poor thing, I feel so sad for you.

How your mother could do that to you is beyond belief. I think you earned the right to your feelings, or perceived lack of them.

I'd say that she wishes she'd be missed/mourned, and for you not to feel any of that is exactly what she deserved.

Where was/is your dad in all this?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Y - I feel for you as well. It was not your fault your mother acted that way. It was her fault and hers alone, you should not have been used by her as the scapegoat for her inherent ills. I would not have shed any tears at all either on her passing (let alone go to her funeral).

How is your life now?.

I was also wondering where your Dad was. Was his role one of bystander or enabler?.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Y sorry to hear you went through such a horrid time, you must have been very sad & scared.
There is no wonder you won't be crying over her, and if you do it will be for the mum you never had x

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

Oh, Dad was OK. The PMT was something we all joked about. When he'd pick us up from school he'd give us current threat level.

Mum was pretty remarkable. She taught me how to punch, and when. Also cookery. I loved her right up until that blow, when she basically shit on Dad, my brothers and me.

She apologised on her deathbed. I told I was grateful to her for raising my pain threshold and giving me the ability to inflict pain without feeling remorse. I forgave her; there were witnesses.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I was wondering what you know about your late mother's childhood if anything.

It could possibly be argued that your Dad singularly failed to protect you and your siblings from her. Did she hit all of you or were you singled out?.

How are relations between you and your Dad in particular now?.

[Hissy]

I would kill any partner of mine with my bare hands if they ever inflicted what your mother did to you Y on my son.

I'm sad to say, but laughing about it, establishing a 'threat level' is allowing it.

I'd not have left my child with someone like that for a second, let alone joke about it.

I'm sorry you were so let down by BOTH your parents Y. :(

[Hissy]

Asking here: does a crappy childhood make it acceptable to slap your kids from one side of the room to another, to berated them to their very core?

I think looking for excuses for them undermines OUR right to be hurt and upset about things normal people would be mortified over.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Asking here: does a crappy childhood make it acceptable to slap your kids from one side of the room to another, to berated them to their very core?

No, absolutely not.

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

I know that Mum had a similar beating off her Dad at much the same age, for which she never forgave him either.

Thing was, we were away at school after we turned 11. Childhood was great; we lived in the country and made our own entertainment. Not very huggykissy, but boys don't do that.

I think it was guilt and rage and hormones caused a one-off. By that time, school had pretty much blunted me, but obviously not enough.

Dad was a bit weird because his Mum had been put in an asylum and he'd been brought up by aunts. His BIL had to teach him how to interact with kids. He got quite good at it.

Ah well, there's allus summon wuss off.

[Phoenixwoman]

Marking my place after falling off the thread. I've skimmed all the new posts but no time to reply just sorry you need to be on here.

My dm is trying to suck me back in after a shitty fight with lots of things said she's now in overdrive being overly nice. Arghh the guilt!! Must make my list of bad times to refer to when this happens.

[GoodtoBetter]

Sounds like my mum phoenix! Mine is busy spiralling down into "I hate my life, I should never have come to this country" depressive nonsense. It's starting already with the maudlin stuff about when's she's dead and getting more pathetic physically and saying "her nerves are bad".

I am in a right strop with myself as I've managed to lose a 2nd set of house keys in a month and feel like a fucking idiot. Will have to change the locks now as I lost this set somewhere in the street outside but there are only a couple of houses in this section, so if anyone dodgy had found them, it'd be easy to work it out. Doh.

[Trunktops]

I have a narc/abusive mother and a passive (ie colluding) father. I have been in therapy for a few years now, gaining some clarity about our family dynamics and my childhood and various emotional problems which have resulted.

All my life I have played along with the status quo which my mother dictates, and run around after her trying to adjust to her ever changing goal posts.

For the past year my father suffered from a debilitating disease which made him very paranoid and delusional. it got to the point where the nurses refused to treat him and he discharged himself from hospital and I ended up giving up my job to care for him 24/7 for three months. That included washing him, changing his nappies and trying to keep him sane. My mother did nothing except tell me that she was "more ill" than him.

Last week was my 35th birthday for which my parents insisted they threw a party for me. The entire thing turned into a party about them, a self-congratulationary fest where my father gave a speech praising my mother and everything she had done for me, as well as how she had looked after him through his illness.

Over the past week I have lost all feelings for both of them and feel completely betrayed. I feel like I never want to see them again and don't know what to do.

Any advice or hand holding would be much appreciated.

[littlemisssarcastic]

Hi everyone. I have been directed to this threads lots of times, but it took me a while to get here.

Not sure where to start, but really feel like I need to talk to someone not IRL IYSWIM.

My whole bloody family are toxic or maybe it is me and I am willing to accept that if you think it is me.

I have now cut the toxic members of my family off, but I have lost my DS in the process.

I think I might crack up some days. I feel like I'm on autopilot. If I stop to think, I can't bear it.

I am alone with my thoughts and feelings and just need someone to talk to, yet at the same time, I am wary of boring the pants off of you all.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Trunktops you're completely within your rights to go no contact. It's a huge step though, often fraught with guilt and feelings of obligation. I think reading the link in the original post about narcissistic mothers would help you to start to process things and decide on what YOU want. In the meantime, I'd definitely try to have some space. She sounds very toxic.

Hello littlemiss.

I'm on my way to bed exhausted but I'm sure others will be along. Please post away here, it's a safe place to vent. I'll check in in the morning.

[littlemisssarcastic]

I am furious with my mother!! Absolutely furious!! I am so angry at her that I could cry, and often do.

[ThunderbumsMum]

trunktops that is terrible, it sounds like cutting that toxicity out of your life is the only thing you can do for your sanity. Poor you, it must have been like a massive kick in the teeth when you gave up so much and it wasn't even acknowledged.

littlemisssarcastic what happened?

[littlemisssarcastic]

My mother spent years and years undermining my parenting to DS. She has now finally poisoned him against me for good. He is not speaking to me, he has cut me off.
This makes my mother happy, because since she got divorced from my abusive stepfather, she has been lonely and has competed with me for DS's affections. She has wanted DS to live with her for at least 9 years, probably more.
Now DS has moved in with her, and has cut me off, and she is happy.
I am devastated.
Her need to be needed is ruining DS's life, and I couldn't stand back and watch any longer, so I have cut her off.
She behaves like DS's mother.
I have lost DS forever.