"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

<br />
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.<br />
<br />
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)<br />
<br />
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.<br />
<br />
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;<br />
<br />
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'<br />
<br />
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. <br />
<br />
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.<br />
<br />
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. <br />
<br />
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a><br />
<br />
I started with this book and found it really useful.<br />
<br />
Here are some excerpts:<br />
<br />
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.<br />
<br />
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.<br />
<br />
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:<br />
<br />
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".<br />
<br />
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".<br />
<br />
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."<br />
<br />
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"<br />
<br />
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."<br />
<br />
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.<br />
<br />
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."<br />
<br />
Helpful Websites<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a><br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a><br />
<br />
More helpful links:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a><br />
<br />
Some books:<br />
<br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Homecoming</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a><br />
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21" rel="nofollow noindex" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a><br />
<br />
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: <br />
<br />
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."<br />
<br />
Happy Posting

[alohahaha]

I have posted on a few of these threads before.

Anyone else turninginto their narc parent? My dad is really difficult. One minute he's the greatest funniest most generous person ever and the next second he turns. I ponder going no contact at times butthen I never ever trust myself, I feel like maybe I am the crazy one. My dad has been very controlling of me and a bully, huge, angry, furious, violent bully always ever since I can remember. I am 31 now, married with two kids and things were ok before I saw how he treated my kids. He tells the 3 yr old things like mummy's going away forever and then laughs hysterically. Hetickles and hits "playfully" and won't ever stop. As a child my bodily autonomy was never respected and this had repercussions for me as an adult. He curses under his breath but audibly over the slightest irritation. He bought me a house which I regret accepting now. I lived abroad for many years and moved back.

I got really upset last week because we went on a day out to visit my aunt and the kids cried in the car and he totally overreacted and I just felt transpirted back to teen years where every little thing was a screaming tantrum from him. During lunch he raved about my aunts lasagne, like raved and raved about it, eventhough its a dishive made him a few times, he didntmention mine. A partof me thinks that is me being oversensitive, but it felt like a dig. I feel like hes jealous of me sometimes, always said he was proud of me but ignores my accomplishments. I got a new job aftera really competitive recruitment pro ess and his reaction was to say my husband needed to get a fucking job. He also slagged off my husband during the lunch with my aunt in a "jokey" way, like if I reactiwould be told itt was a hilarious joke. It's not. My husband is awesome and showed me just how fucked up my dad is and howfucked my parents relationship is. My mum is great but hse's unbearably passive. Sorry for typos, I have had wine. Thanks for reading

[masquerade]

I think she is mature, she's certainly very bright. I spoke to her school teacher briefly when it first happened (just to make her aware, dd had an a&e trip that morning before school so I was going in anyway) who said in her opinion dd is very mature and also very perceptive.

Legally there are no contact orders, there's never been any solicitor involvement or anything before this point. I would hope if it were to go to court her opinion would be taken into account. I think that yes she would say to someone official what she has said to me, I think she would possibly get tearful when talking, but she would say it. In fact I have already told her this may be a possibility when he first threatened going to a solicitor and told me I must let dd read his texts so she could see how much he wanted to see her, and was saying that I would be putting her through unnecessary distress if he was forced to go down this route etc (I didn't show her the texts, it would have been completely inappropriate given the content, but I gave her a brief, age appropriate overview of what he was saying). She first said it would be fine to talk to someone if I was there, I explained I probably wouldn't be but that the person would be kind because they had chosen to do a job to help children, I also said that if it happened it would be her opportunity to say what she wanted/felt.

I have had my doubts about the counselling ThunderbumsMum, and have already cancelled one appointment, but since the solicitor thing came into play I'm wondering if it would work in her favour if it ends up in court by helping her be clear in her feelings. I think maybe I'll take her along to to an initial appointment (no date yet so it may be a while) and see what she thinks. She knows about it as the leaflet was sent with her home from school in an unsealed envelope. Its a service set up for families who are separating, with the focus on positive relationship, they run mediation etc, so they may even say its not right for us!

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Masquerade my Dad was very emotionally abusive and sometimes violent. Once I became a teenager our relationship deteriorated even more as I tried to establish some independence (which he couldn't stand, his way or the highway) and started to have my own opinions. With the increased hormones and my mood swings, coupled with my Dads explosive temper, my teens were a nightmare. They were absolutely awful.

Obviously I don't know what your ExH is like with his daughter compared to my Dad but the teenage years are far harder. If he's struggling now, the teen years will be much worse.

I do feel it's important that you both respect your daughters wishes here though.

I would go and see a solicitor before taking any action or agreeing to mediation. But the fact he's contacted a solicitor and has suggested mediation is actually good. Rather than threatening court immediately, although I believe solicitors actively encourage you to try mediation first.

To be honest I would go. Go to the mediation but remain calm and steadfast and repeat your daughter is hurt, how hard she's finding things and that she doesn't want to see him.

I'd show willing here as it may make you look better if this does get to court imo. I know he is likely not to listen or agree and you may feel mediation is a waste of time, on the other hand mediators are trained to help parents who can't agree. But please speak to a solicitor first. Please keep records of all texts and e-mails.

I would encourage your daughter to have counselling. It's a good idea. Everything she says in there is confidential and it will be hugely beneficial for her. Especially at this key stage in her life. Just to unpick all she feels in a safe environment.

You're the only one who can protect your daughter. It's going to be a very difficult and stressful time ahead for you. Do you have support around you?

[pumpkinsweetie]

Thunder That was a very nasty email, i would not reply at all. It's a complete "woh is me" and constent digs about something from many moons ago. She is clearly deranged and she obviously cannot & won't see she is the one who has done wrong. My mil is like this, she can't do no wrong, it's always someone elses fault. I have already pre decided i shall not correspond to her should she send any more messages.

Mascerade I don't have any experience of what you are going through but it sounds as though your daughter has made her decision, and the decision should be respected. I think 10yo is old enough to know when you do not want to see someone. I just hope for her sake the legallity is on her side rather than her fathers. If she does change her mind later on that's fine too, but it sounds best she doesn't see him if he is being horrible to her and it must be bad if she has made this decision herself. You sound like a wonderful mum, i hope this all works out well for you both, and what a nasty life she will be saved from not having to endure what people on here have!
It's a blessing really, he sounds like an awful person.

aloha My dh was and is in the same situation as you. His father is no longer allowed contact with my children as i had to do what was best for them. He would tickle them until there was no tickle left and in the end my dc were nearly bought to tears. He would put his feet out to trip them up & when he succeeded i would tell mil it's not acceptable behaviour, she would deny seeing him do it!
He would also wind my dc up, especially dd2 by calling her boy over and over (shes a girly girl) until she got angry and told him to shut up, of course mil & fil told her she musn't say shut up. They would then go home and i would be left with upset and wound up children.
Dh was no use he is scared of fil and just allowed this to go on and even now fil has power over him.

Basically what i'm saying is don't let your father have any power over you, you are now an adult you can do what you want & if you are unhappy with the way he treats your children keep contact to a bare minimum or cut it all together even if just for the children.

[spanky2]

Thunder that email is very similar to a letter and then a text my dad sent me. Thought you would want to know it's not just you.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Alohahaha I would try to limit contact with your Dad tbh. He's sound awful.

Why did you ask if anyone else was turning into their parent? Are you finding you're mimicking some of his behaviour with your kids?

Tbh I sometimes do find in the heat of the moment with the DCs I'll say something that sounds like something my parents would've said to me but then I hate myself for it. I can struggle to keep my cool at times. But I am doing everything I can to parent better, despite the poor model I was shown as a child. And I always apologise if I feel I handled something badly. My Dad has never said sorry in his life to me.

[pumpkinsweetie]

My dh has said he is frightened of turning into his father and tbh is frightened me that he had said it.
Weirdly enough dh is the perfect father all of the time he isn't in contact with his parents, but when he has been round pils house his behaviour towards the children does change somewhat and he can become very snappy & short tempered over the littlest things.
This is why i'm happy for him to keep seeing them to a bare minimum.

[GoodtoBetter]

Just reading through, but yes yes to this x100000000000000:
I used to want to fix everything, say sorry, even when I didn't think I needed to, just to make peace

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's interesting you say that pumpkin. I used to find when I took the kids to my parents house I was stricter there with them. I felt watched and judged and was desperate for them to appear well behaved, the way my parents approve of. They'd still find something to criticise me for though! I'd then go home, take on board what they said and be ghastly with the kids for a week or so and then I'd think, hang on a minute, this isn't working, why don't I go back to my style of parenting and stop reliving what my parents said. My Mum used to say to me: 'if you're not harder on them, they'll be tear aways as teenagers' so I'd come home and think she's right, I must be more strict.

I realised they'd never agree with how I parented in the end. And that my parenting was affected by seeing them at theirs and being in that environment feeling judged.

I never go there now and I won't allow my Mum to say anything when she comes here on her own now. I parent how I think is best now. Thank God. It must have confused my kids no end. Like a Mummy Jekyll & Hyde after visits to theirs.

[PrincessFudgeBonnet]

Hi everybody

Hope its okay to just barge on in and start posting here! I've finally realised that my mum has narcissist tendencies or has simply chosen me out of our siblings as a target for everything. Some of the more recent things have been telling me I should have had an abortion if I can't cope (I asked if she could watch dd for an hour or two so I could have a break, I'm a LP who hasn't had an hour apart from dd for a year), throwing things at me when she was annoyed (in front of dd) and telling me she hopes I don't get pregnant again as she wouldn't be able to cope.

Its been making me very sad for a while and with hindsight I can see how her attitude towards me has affected almost my whole life as I ran around trying to make her happy. Her attitude towards me has rubbed off on a couple of my siblings and they treat me badly too. After speaking with my dad (who luckily, is very supportive) I've decided to take the step to reduce contact to the bare minimum with her and my siblings to try and rebuild my confidence and self esteem. Its so difficult to put into action though because I have a young dd who loves her grandma to bits so it will make her sad but at the same time I see my mum beginning to treat my dd in the same way and I cannot have her life ruined too. It makes me sad too to think no more family Christmases with us all and worried that dd will miss out but i can't keep going.

Does anybody else feel such guilt even though really you know its probably for the best to reduce contact? That's the part I am really really struggling with. And the fear of regret of everything we will miss out on.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Welcome princess sorry you have found yourself here, i hope someone comes along soon to help you better than i can.

What an absolutely vile thing for your mother to say about her grandchild that has already been born!
You only wanted an hours peace there is absolutely nothing wrong in that and most normal grandparents would bite their dd hand off to have their granchild for an hour

You are not wrong at all in wanting to reduce contact, she is a good influence on your dd and she will learn that throwing things and hideously insulting people is normal, so you are definetly doing the right thing in this situation.

As for family christmasses that must be a tough one, but the thing to remember is do you really want this sort of behaviour to impact you at christmas time? The guilt will always be there, my dh suffers very much guilt since i stopped mil contact with the dc, but it had to be done for my sake aswell as theirs.

Glad you have your fathers support, atleast that is something.

[masquerade]

DontstepontheMomeRaths I absolutely think it would only get harder as she approaches/enters her teenage years and becomes more opinionated and defiant. Teenage years are supposed to be when we figure out who we are and learn to deal with stuff, they are absolutely hard enough without a parent constantly giving you the message that who you are and what you do is wrong!

Thank you so much for your replies, this thread is strengthening my resolve that I am doing the right thing by letting dd make this decision. You're right it is hard though, I am lucky to have support from a few very good friends and my mum. I had read that mediation isn't really recommended when the relationship has been abusive, I feel like it would just be completely pointless, he is never going to admit that how he acts is wrong or that dd should have a say in how she wants the relationship to be.

Dd has had a few tears this morning after looking at some baby photos which he was in, she says with determination that she is not sad because she misses him, I think she's more just sad that she doesn't have a dad in her life who she sees, that he isn't the dad she would like him to be.

[PrincessFudgeBonnet]

Thanks pumpkin :) I hadn't thought about dd learning from her too I had thought along the lines of not wanting her to see me treated that way but not even considered that she could think its normal to do that too. And I think you're right about Christmas. We had a family get together a few weeks back and it was very hard to see how different I was being treated in comparison to my siblings and to experience them subtly excluding me from conversations. That at Christmas would be quite sad :(

Thank you for your reply :) its made me see things a bit more clearly.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

You might want to post in legal for some more specific advice masquerade and take advantage of a free hour with a solicitor or two. If you do not have one already. To see your options better and find a good one.

Would womensaid be helpful?

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Princessfudge I don't think you'll feel you are missing out as you become free of the fog and move on with your life. You'll find peace and contentment in your own place with your DD without her and plan special occasions with friends instead.

I'm not sure if you've read any of the links in the original post? Or know what 'fog' means. But limiting contact is the right thing to do. It's not healthy for your dd to witness, it's not setting a good example on how she should treat you as she grows as pumpkin said and it's not good for you either. If your self esteem is low you maybe wondering how you'll cope/ manage without her support but you will. You're stronger than you think.

I'm a lone parent myself, I have found any negativity in my life draining and have worked to only have positive people in it. I'm much happier for it. And no longer seeing my Dad or attending family gatherings has been lovely for me. I've started my own traditions and work to create happy memories for my kids as a 3 instead. I have found good babysitters and a childminder as the years have gone by and I'm now back at work 20 hrs a week. I never need my parents for anything. I'm autonomous and independent and I'm so much happier now than I would have believed possible when I first opted to go no contact with my Dad and limit contact with my Mum.

Whatever you chose to do we're here to support you on this thread. Start to read some of the links and books recommended here. As you process things you'll decide a way forward that's right for you.

[TiffanyTortoise]

What a lot of posts since yesterday. It's so sad to read about lives messed up so much by people we trusted and love. It seems we have in common the guilt, low self esteem and being blamed for the difficult relationship between us and our parent(s)
MomeRaths-how awful for your father to hate your son. I am assuming from your post that your father has made it obvious to your son how he feels. If so how disgusting. When I took kids to visit parents when they were younger I was the same with the kids as you and found it stressful. I thought I was doing the right thing keeping kids in contact. Even with hindsight I don't know what was for the best. I often wonder how things would be if I walked away years ago. My DC are now old enough to make up their own mind and have little contact as they are sussing out the relationship for themselves.
Helles Belles- I am limiting amount of visits, duration of visits and will keep convo superficial and if any unpleasantness I will cut the visit short. I am not ready to completely cut off.
After reading these posts I realise that I have a lot of working out to do and need to start protecting myself/DH/kids from further hurt.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Yes Tortoise, although my son was only 2 when he last spent any time with my Dad but my Dad used to shout at him and say he was just like his father (I'm divorced) and similar things. Actually I have a good relationship with my ExH and the kids are half him and half me and they love him. Awful thing to say in their ear shot or in fact at all. He's insulting them really. He also smacked my son hard on the back at 2, for doing something fairly minor. I stopped going to their house long ago after a series of incidences.

[littlemisssarcastic]

Hi everyone.

[PrincessFudgeBonnet]

Thank you for your reply momeraths :) I haven't read much of the links in the OP yet but I'm definitely going to have a dig through and hopefully it will help me understand things better about it all! Thanks for sharing about you being a lone parent too. Just reading what you've wrote has made me feel a lot more optimistic! Maybe it will be nice to create our own little Christmas and start our own tradition rather than being slotted in to somebody else's. I hadn't thought about it meaning more independence but that's true and it will be good for me as a person I think.

I think I'm extra scared because I don't actually have any friends (except a man who is looking like a potential dating situation) but I do have my dad and my stepmum at the end of the phone so I'm lucky for that.

I'm glad you feel happier going no contact and limiting contact. I'm feeling quite optimistic now. Scared but hopeful!

Sorry if this is an obvious answer, but can I ask everyone, is it easier to tell the person you are limiting contact or is it easier to sort of fade away? I know my mum would flip it all around on me if I tried any sort of confrontation (like when I confronted her about the abortion comment) but will fading away make it even worse?

[TiffanyTortoise]

MomeRaths From your posts I think it's the right thing for no contact with your father. Unfortunately, It seems like there isn't any chance for him to see what he's done to you and your kids. With your mum seeing you once a month I wonder if she realises your father is toxic. I wonder if your mum, like mine, is controlled too and just wants a peaceful life. I think my mum wants me to conform/do everything the way they think is right so it keeps my dad quiet. I suspect that she gets a hard time when he's not happy with me so she joins in with it to protect herself and convinces herself that it's me that's failing.

[alohahaha]

MomeRaths what you wrote about treating your kids differently really hit home for me. It's one of the things that makes me hate seeing my dad, as I feel so judged by him that I start seeing the kids through his eyes and get really strict and horrible with them and that is not my style. my kids are wonderful and bright and fun, and yes they are pre-schoolers so they are nightmares at times and in my dad's book this would be crushed mercilessly. it's so hard to deal with the negative feelings he gives me towards my own kids.

yes, I do feel like I mimic my dad's behavior a lot, I have been influenced by him to a huge degree.

recently I realized that despite what he tried to teach me, the world is actually full of kind, lovely people who do not want to tear me down and who appreciate me for who I am.

[TiffanyTortoise]

PrincessFudge I've tried both ways of cutting contact. When I've had a big fall out with my parents, usually because I've stood up to them over criticism or poor treatment I've said I'm breaking contact but my dad is furious and a few days later my mum makes makes me feel guilty and unreasonable. She hates the thought of completely breaking apart(probably because it doesn't fit with perfect family image that they're after) There is always an awful confrontation. This time I've decided just to reduce contact and let things drift. If they notice and say anything I'll need to deal with it then. Time will tell if this is a good approach. Yes I feel guilty and I think that's part of having toxic relationship. I feel guilty saying all this, I feel guilty about not being what they want me to be.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

Princessfudge I think fading away can be best in some situations. But you have to decide for you what's best in your circumstances. If you lived in Herts I'd be your friend I hope as your child gets bigger your friendship group grows. Do you go to Mums and Tots groups yet? Or is she at school. I'm not sure how old she is.

alohaha my Dad will never approve of my kids, as they should be seen and not heard! They're now 4 & 6 but my goodness me they're both whirlwinds and I still struggle not to mimic my Dad. I read vast amounts of parenting books and try to do my best to be different though. Not seeing him has lifted a huge weight off my shoulders tbh.

Tortoise my Mum just enables him, she's normalises it after over 40 years together, she acquiesces for peace. But I decided not to be part of that anymore and disengaged from the family. My brothers all do the same. I'm not prepared to anymore. I don't have to tread on egg shells or put up with it to play happy families. Except it's not happy families really, is it? So glad I'm not part of it all now.

Need to head to bed, hoping the above makes sense.

[pumpkinsweetie]

Well it's mil birthday today & it's seems dh may have forgot, as we are off out on a trip to a castle today. Lets hope his phone is on silent, before the storm comes because my god she will kick off, as will fil when they notice dh hasn't sent or come round with a gift
I did ask him last week what his intentions were for her birthday and would he consider sending her a card & present instead, at the time he said he must see his mum on her birthday. When he seems to completely have forgot...oops, cheers to hoping we have a nice uninteruppted day out!

[HellesBellesThinksSometimes]

I've been wondering what to do about df's birthday next week. The thought of not marking it seems wrong and I would like to be part of the family celebration because m&d will be on best behaviour because it's a special day and db and dsil will be there so it would be a pleasant occasion but I know, if this estrangement is going to last - and I need it to - that I cannot take part. I am pretty well resolved that I will send the gifts I already bought as being from ds and will allow him to attend the birthday tea.

Being a self-imposed orphan means I miss out on the occasiinal good time as well.