DW, marriage, communication, sex and stuff.

[Keepithidden]

Hello, I?ve posted in Dadsnet and Feminism already for advice regarding specific parts of my slightly dysfunctional marriage, so it?s time to bite the bullet and whack a post in relationships!

Bit of background, I?m male, DW and I have been married five years, together ten. Both mid 30?s, two DCs (2 and 4) and no sex life. I?ve considered and tried various anaphrodisiacs and been reading a lot about PIV/Feminism womens views of sex and got myself thoroughly paranoid about the number of women with disappointing sex lives and I think DW may be one of them.

I?ve tried to broach the subject a few times, but she says it?s tiredness/stress (understandable considering the young kids I suppose), I?ve asked whether she enjoys it when we do have sex, she says yes. I?ve even asked if she fakes it! She says no. Not sure whether I believe any of it because I know she wouldn?t want to hurt my feelings, and there does seem to be a big proportion of women out there who aren?t happy.

I help around the house as much as I can (still got to buy a copy of Wifework to make sure I?m covering all bases) and I think we split things pretty equally despite me being fulltime working and DW a SAHM. She has the option of lie-ins at weekends (but rarely takes them), I try to do all the kiddy stuff at weekends to give her a break and cooking/cleaning in evenings is my responsibility most of the time too (she tends to do most of the laundry and cooking for the kids).
So I suppose the question is, how long should I wait before putting an ultimatum/suggesting counselling/ending the Marriage? (rhetorical: I know only I can answer that) I love DW and would do anything for her (have considered chemical castration at times), but this is getting me down and I?ve started having slightly suicidal thoughts which I know isn?t healthy. The constant rejection I could cope with if I knew what the reason was. Could be a case that counselling for me is required.

I think it all started about 5 years ago when we were TTC, after 1 year DW became pregnant and morning sickness put a kibosh on any intimacy, a year later we DTD once and number two came along, again Morning Sickness meant a nine month break, BFing extended this and it all fell into a rut so we?ve only DTD six times in the past five years! Putting that down in writing is quite shocking.

Anyway, DW has issues with her body post pregnancy. I find her sexy and attractive, but my constant reassurances fall on deaf ears (haven?t seen her naked for five years either). I think she may need some help to improve her confidence as nothing I can say changes it a jot. Not sure on the best way to approach this one, so any words would of advice would be good. I think once she?s happy with herself then we can talk more about what she wants out of life and whether she even wants me in it.

Sorry, this post is all a bit disjointed and I?ve probably missed stuff out but it?s cathartic to get it down even if this gets no responses!

[Keepithidden]

Lots to respond to this time, I'll try to respond/answer to each, sorry if I miss anything/anyone.

Buffy - Once more the voice of reason! It occurred to me I may not get any answers, but I'm willing to search hopefully DW is too.

Gertrude - DW wouldn't do the woe-is-me thing. She would blame herself and withdraw though.

Arsenal - The spark was there for us prechildren, five years of happy times. It's the last five years when things suddenly changed. I don't think she was using me to get kids and a meal ticket. It's a very long game to play if she was.

Duelling - I use stereotypes as much as anyone but in this case I think you could be tarring me with the wrong brush. I've explained that the housework is divided equally and believe me when I say no job is beneath me!

City - Thankyou for your honesty, I pictured a different scenario to the one you paint. It's sad that she enjoys it but won't explore the reluctance to initiate or accept initiaton. Feel free to ramble anytime!

Darkest - Yes some days are easier, some days I go to internet pages and try to order the hormones they give to sex offenders to remove their desires.

Will post again soon kiddies calling...

[arsenaltilidie]

Arsenal - You're right it wasn't rip-your-clothes off at the beginning, not sure I've ever been that way, pretty sure DW hasn't either.

Arsenal - The spark was there for us

Gertrude - DW wouldn't do the woe-is-me thing. She would blame herself and withdraw though.

[Spero]

For me, it is not so much the lack of sex that is the issue, but whether or not your partner will talk openly and honestly about what is going on.

For me, I decided that if I was going to be lonely and celibate I might as well be lonely and celibate and single rather than in a 'relationship'.

It wasn't so much the lack of sex that killed it but the lack of any attempt by my then partner to talk to me about anything much. Maybe he was gay, maybe it was a phase, maybe he just didn't fancy me. I still don't know but I wasn't going to hang around for years to find out.

If it is a relationship worth having, you will both want to support and love one another. Sometimes that will mean one of you not having sex when you would really, really like to. And sometimes it will mean one of you having sex when you would rather read a book.

But if you can't talk to each other about these times then the problems go way deeper than lack of sex.

So I hope you too can talk about it because it sounds like there is still love between you, and also two small children who will be better off emotionally if they can see their parents together, loving each other.

[AWarmFuzzyFuture]

arsenaltilidie I did wonder if I was the only one who had noticed the inconsistency comments.

OP re: spark

[plantsitter]

Fucking hell this is a depressing thread.

Keepithidden you sound great and I am sorry about your frustration, I'm not having a go at you.

I'm a SAHM of 2 and 4 yr old girls. I am reading some of the posts on this thread with my mouth agape at the sense of entitlement some men seem to have and the willingness to accept it from some women.

Being a SAHM with 2 preschoolers is fucking relentless, it really is. The demands are emotional and physical and it's almost impossible not to have some time in any given day/week/whatever to feel like a servant. Someone asking you for sex when you don't feel like it makes you feel like there is yet another service to provide - and no I don't feel like I have a duty to offer up my body because my husband has overwhelming urges which it's my job as wife to satisfy. Jesus.

Keepithidden I'm sorry - I've had to skip some of this thread because the attitudes within it have made me so angry, but do you think your DW might be depressed? Being a SAHM is the loneliest job I've ever done.

If I were you I would be 1) trying to make time for non-sexual intimacy so you can connect with each other again - something that makes you laugh together or achieve something as a team (but something v short term, not like having kids!)
2) asking her if she thinks she's depressed and needs to see a doctor
and even - sorry - 3) waiting until at least one of the kids is at school to see if she fe

Good luck.els more like herself when she is not enslaved to 2 cute, yes, but incredibly demanding task masters.

[plantsitter]

That went wrong! 'Good luck' meant to be at the end.

[himoutdoors]

Didlidali - fucking fantastic link on page three above. Wow

[himoutdoors]

Inspirational. I think that I help too much round the house and need to be that more careless, desired and desirable, harder to please young man that she fell in love with.

[himoutdoors]

I think work sold be shared by couples but I do notice that my male friends who do next to nothing but buy lots of flowers have a much easier life. So a little less focus on equality and a bit more focus on guile and charm would go a long way, I think.

[Darkesteyes]

himoutdoors you are not "helping" around the house. You live there and create mess too. The fact that you have used that phrase says more about you than the rest of what youve posted.

[Darkesteyes]

The fact that you see it as "helping" shows that you think of it as womens work.

[Dilidali]

No, himoutdoors, not that. But you could make it obvious to your DW that you care about you two as individuals, not as parents.
Glad you found the link useful.

[himoutdoors]

You are correct that I am am contributing and not helping. FYI I work full time and do half sometimes more than half the housework, all the groceries, the gardening, and lots more. We both work hard. Don't want my slip to detract from the point. It is acknowledged that I make an excellent contribution in that dept.

Fact is that, my mates who do little and make a few romantic gestures have a much easier time.

[AnyFucker]

I would bin the petrol station flowers over some honest collaboration and respect any day

Don't look at what your mates do

You should have outgrown that when you were 14, tbh

[2much2young]

well said plantsitter absolutely spot on

@himoutdoors you should fucking stay outdoors - what a load of bulllshit cobblers and if that's what your mates tell you er yeah whatever.

OP, have you had a chat with your wife? christ knows it's one of the most difficult things to talk about if there are problems, it's a real pandora's box isn't it? and by god you better be ready when you (as a couple) open it.

[Spero]

The one good thing about these threads, for me anyway is that it really cheers me up about being single. All this game playing, bargaining, crying alone at night ... And yet relationships are still touted as the only way one can possibly be a fulfilled human being.

[2much2young]

game playing? I don't think it's that at all. I think it's just people trying to live their lives in the best/sometimes only way they know possible.

Being single has it's merits, being in a relationship does too.

[himoutdoors]

2much2young -no need to be so aggressive. Having some honest dialogue. It does seem that earnest, domestication can be rebalanced somewhat by being a little more blokish, on reflection. I try to do as much as possible to be responsible and to make life easier for everyone, whilst doing a high pressure job. But lowest priority is having any grown up time for many years now. Neither DW or I is type to cheat so that isn't the issue. Sometimes it seems as though we have children now so job done. Sometimes it seems as though DW wouldn't mind if I played away a bit. Some other (married) women seem fond of me and one or two very keen but it would be difficult to cheat on a fabulous DW.

My point is problem seems insoluble cos I would find it difficult, near unacceptable to break my family up much as I miss having grown up time together.

[Spero]

By not talking to each other?

Why is it not possible to say to your partner - I am tired, I would appreciate this, that or the other.

Way we seem to have is mass of seething unexpressed resentments and people contemplating killing themselves.

Awesome.

[himoutdoors]

Discussed many many times. With busy lives there is always something to do and grown up time is at the bottom of the pile, in practice. If we did nothing for 3 mths she wouldn't notice and I would. The only way for me to come to terms with as it inevitably causes conflict. I think that DW really wouldn't mind, almost expects that I may be playing away although I have made it clear that isn't what I want, however tempting.

[himoutdoors]

OP apologies if I hijacked ..... I do empathise and think that it is more common and this can happen between two decent people. I love respect DW....it is just the way it is.

[2much2young]

Grrr I'm not trying to be aggressive but you really came across as an A1 Cock (I'm sure you didn't mean to) I'm sure you're not so apologies but you are coming across a bit like that. Well I think.

I totally hear you about grown up time and putting the kids first - as it should be in my book though and that's what makes it a ompeltely different set up to being "just" married or living together without chidlren. BUT why does this mean you should be "playing away" your analogy makes me think you are very young. How do you know this??

Sorry Op.

[himoutdoors]

I am not young. I am honest and open. DW sometimes talks about the OW jokingly. I have a laugh about it as humour is a good mitigant. Frankly, I think subconsciously DW would not be completely surprised or even unhappy if I am having a physical affair that doesn't interfere with family life. Hard to absorb that but so it seems. I think that I am almost given green light to do so.

[2much2young]

look I don't know about your wife and her subconscious but I can bet you that all your "mates" are feeding you a big line of shit about what it's really like to be in a long term relationship, esp with kids.

Whatever, I'm hammered

[chipmonkey]

I also think you should never underestimate the how the physical "devastation" of childbirth can affect a woman's self-esteem. After having ds1, I was utterly shocked at how my tummy looked like a deflated balloon and that no matter now many sit-ups I did, it never went back to normal. Dh still fancied me but I felt unattractive and when you feel unattractive it's hard to believe that someone does find you attractive and it has a terrible effect on your libido.
I have kind of learned to live with my body now and to accept that to dh I am still attractive ( we had four more children!) but it took a long time.

I would also like to say that you do sound like a lovely guy and to be frank, if you follow some of the advice on here, you would behave like a complete bastard and your dw would just end up upset and bewildered and wondering what happened to the man she married. I think really you need to be firm but gentle with her. That you are on her side but that you are unhappy with the current situation.

Best of luck to you. I really hope you two can work this out, you sound like a great team and it would be a pity if you ended things.