tomorrow I hand over my children to the OW for the first time

[chocoreturns]

I don't know what else to say, just need a hand hold tonight.

OW and STBXH are now house hunting 15 mins from my house, and spending EOW with my baby and DS. They have been lying about her being there right up until today. I finally reached the end of my tether, while listening to DS1 tell me all about house hunting with OW all day, having been told he was with only his dad and granny.

So I called STBXH and told him I'm over it, it's time to stop pretending I'm an ogre who can't bear to meet her, and to bring her to handover. If she's going to be on my doorstep and having my children in her home, I need to know who she is. She took my baby DS2 swimming with his dad today - it was his first swim. I am far beyond anger now and I'm just sad about it all :(

Not sure what to say to her, but I would like to take her to one side when STBXH is putting the kids in the car, and say look - I know you and I aren't going to be friends, but my children are my priority, and I need to know they are safe and happy when they're not with me. If you ever don't know what to do, or you're on your own with them and you think they need me, please know that it's ok to call me and I'll be fine with you. Then give her my number.

Is that mad? Or sensible and mature?

This is a moment I need a mumsnet straw poll :(

[tribpot]

God he really is utterly contemptible, isn't he?

At some point in the future, probably when she's been supplanted during a pregnancy, you will have the opportunity to say 'well, dear, you don't need me to tell you what kind of man he is'.

Right now I really would avoid any further conversation with her that isn't basic pleasantries or essential facts about whether the kids have eaten or whatever. He would love nothing more than to have the two of you at each other's throats, diverting attention away from the fact that he is spineless turd who caused all this. And the more you show you aren't bothered about whether she's there or not, the less reason you give for him to try and force the issue of her step-motherhood in order to abuse you by proxy.

Do try and enjoy your day. It's no different from any other contact visit except that no-one is hiding her presence any more.

[cheeseandpineapple]

Choco truly has returned, like the Phoenix from the ashes! Well done Choco, you're probably re-running the whole scene through your head, maybe questioning what you said and what more you could have said. This is just the first unfortunately of more encounters to come. You might not have intended to say what you did or might be regretting it because you wanted to follow your plan but you needed to do this. I hope it feels cathartic. It may not but it should, you've been building up for this day for months.

You have the moral high ground. She sounded flustered, garbled and self centred. You're the grown up here, you're the one in control even if you don't feel like you have control.

Continue to assert yourself, setting the ground rules with both of them, good tactic to talk to them together, no chance of miscommunication.

You can still instigate original plan, along the lines of "we are where we are, we're not going to be best friends any of us any time soon but I want for children's sake to have open and transparent communication and to ensure the children are happy when they are with you and will do what I can to facilitate that but I need to trust that you respect my wishes"

She deserves your ex but not your children, she has no right being anywhere near them but unfortunately she now has access to them and rightly, wrongly, it can't be easy for her, not the life I am guessing she planned but one she has chosen. I would manipulate that to your advantage, as far as you can establish a relationship of tolerance of her so that she is willing to communicate with you even if ex isn't.

Have you read Getting Rid of Matthew? Worth a read. By Jane Fallon, being made into a film. You've got rid of your Matthew, OW now has him, how on earth she can have chosen that situation for herself is just baffling. She has got to be a deeply insecure person with no self esteem to think this is the best she can achieve for herself. It's rather pitiful. At least your eyes are wide open Choco and you have a chance to find someone to be with one day who is your moral equal.

[NannyPlumIsMyMum]

Very sensible .

I wish my DHs ex-wife had done that with me - I would have really appreciated to know that the lines of communication between us on what ever level, were open between us , for the sake of the children.

Expect your DC to go through different stages of emotions for her.. Affection , hate , neutrality .

If you can help them to be at the very least tolerant of her ( which is all that's necessary , and if she has anything about her she won't expect any more than that ) it will make contact for them as least stressful as possible .

From my experience open communication and not slagging each other off in front of the children is crucial to their happiness in the long term . I can't stress that enough.

You sound really level headed your DC will be fine .

Accept that the OW may grow to love your DC ( as I did ) but be reassured that in their eyes she is very ordinary - whereas you as their mother will always be very amazing and top dollar.

[nkf]

You wanted to do it. You did it. And now it's done. Time to enjoy the day.

[BerylStreep]

Chesntoots, the OW already has a crb check! Her solicitor was very keen that chico be grateful for this.

[nameuschangeus]

Choco I've read through this thread and I just want to say that you are amazing. To be so civilised in the face of this is just incredible. I am lucky not to be in your situation but I know for a fact that I couldn't do what you have just done. And from where I'm standing the speech you actually said was better than the one you planned to say! Be kind to yourself today and know that you have been the bigger person in this situation. Sending unmsnetty hugs xxx

[GLady]

I think you did great :)

[chocoreturns]

thank you everyone. My SIL spoke to me and said she was proud of me, and she hopes that what I said sits in the OW mind like a uncracked nut, waiting for the day it's ripe enough to break open.

IF I get any contact from her that isn't about the children I will politely rebuff it and say the numbers are useful for communicating about the children, but I will not tolerate any other conversations being started. I've said my piece and will rest easy knowing that she's completely confident in what kind of a man he is now it's time for my fabulous life to start.

On a cheerier note, I went on my first date yesterday morning, and had a rather lovely time (until I had to cut it short because STBXH had brought back DS1 early, with wet trousers because he hadn't got spares). It's been rather overshadowed by the shit morning today, but all in all, it's been a pretty epic weekend for me.

Onwards and upwards. You are all wonderful, thank god for MN xx

[wrinklyraisin]

I'm not the OW but I am a stepmum to my OH's child. I met his ex, her mother, 6 months into our relationship. It must have been hard for her on so many levels, I know I felt more nervous about getting her "approval" than anything. Now, 18 months or so down the line, we get on pretty well. We agreed very early on that we are both going to work as a team of 3 to keep things stable and consistent for the child, and my role albeit not as a Mother, is still a maternal loving figure in her life. It's quite funny now really as I talk more with my stepdaughters mother than my OH does sometimes. I think as women/motherly figures maybe we see the finer details and chat about the little stuff whereas OH tends to go with the flow more. I love my stepdaughter and want her to feel loved and secure and I want her mother to feel that I'm a positive influence in all this. It's complex and not without its inner struggles. But, OP, I hope you'll see that it's ok for another woman to love your children too if your ex has a committed and secure relationship. And don't feel bad for wanting to check her out, or establish some kind of ground rules. They are YOUR children with your ex. However a child can never receive too much love and in my case the whole dynamic does work pretty amicably and smoothly.

[wrinklyraisin]

I did want to add I personally think your ex and his partner are fuckwits for lying to you (a running theme I guess as they started as an affair). Please try not to let your kids see your contempt for them though. My father got together with his mistress and my mum never let up complaining and bitching about it. It made my relationship with my dad very strained as all I ever heard was what a lying shit he was. Children are innocent and don't need to know stuff until they're older and more able to handle it iyswim.

You've been so dignified so far, amazing given the circumstances. Keep it up. :)

[chocoreturns]

hi wrinkly, believe me my children see none of the contempt I have for their father. There is a huge backstory on here that explains it all.

I have no problem with them caring for my children or loving them. I have a huge problem with the fact that they do not behave as if they do. Their sole motivation over the last 18 months has been doing what is right for them. The children do not come into it.

My ex told me last night that he does not call his children in the 12 days he isn't here, or ask after them, or speak to their nursery for reports, or follow up on anything he is told about their medication or sleep or diet because it is too hard for him and he gets upset.

His OW has just confirmed to me that she is only interested in what SHE is entitled to, and how hard it all is for HER as well.

I'm very glad when other families manage to make parenting a 'team of three' but you can rest assured for many, many lone parents, parenting is a team of one, fielding a substitute bench of selfish fuckwits.

[nkf]

I hear you, Choco. Out of sight, out of mind seems to be what my ex thinks. I used to try to encourage him to stay in contact but now I don't bother. He won't sustain it because it doesn't matter to him. All we can do is build a homelife for our children in which they don't feel marginalised and second best.

[wrinklyraisin]

I'm very sad for you :( it sounds horrendous that your ex puts his own feelings above the well being of his children. I haven't followed your story. It does sound like you're remarkably well restrained though given their selfishness in the situation, must be so frustrating dealing with their "woe is me" tales. Ugh. They've made their bed, they need to deal with it maturely for the children's sake. You should be proud of how you're dealing with it all. Your kids might not understand it now but trust me in the future they'll thank you for being the one who was there for them selflessly. I have many issues with my own upbringing in a divorced family with a selfish and unwilling stepmother and a dad who didn't push for contact and a mum who bitched constantly. I'm trying VERY hard to make my stepdaughters life completely different. It's hard to keep personal feelings aside sometimes. I hope that you'll find some kind of resolution to this so you don't end up emotionally wrung out. I really do take my hat off to you for being the bigger person in all this. Un-mumsnetty hugs x

[maleview70]

The tel numbers thing works both ways. Whatever you do don't be tempted to send her any messages expressing anger or hatred towards her.

It would surely get messy.

[chocoreturns]

thank you :(

ugh.

#Off to scrub my loo and imagine flushing them both down it

[chocoreturns]

I am not that stupid, believe me!!

[badguider]

Well done, it's SO good that you've opened up lines of communication, your x was obviously trying to keep you apart and continue the sneaking and lying of the affair - don't stand for it, when there's kids involved there should never be any sneaking and lying as they'll feel compelled to be complicit.... if you can keep this up then they can grow up feeling comfortable to tell you anything that happens when they're not with you... well done.

[BattlingFanjos]

Having read your thread I cannot believe how amazing you handled this! You are most definitely a bigger person than me and the pair of them!! I cannot even begin to imagine how hard it has been for you. I'm a single parent and my DS has no contact at all with his 'father' which hurts but it is easier for me in a sense as there are no situations like this. What lucky boys your dcs are to have such a level headed, amazing mummy! Hugs to you choco xxxx

[Skyebluesapphire]

Choc well done to to you for not punching her face in. I'm glad she doesn't need you to tell her what sort of man he is, and like others have said, remind her of that fact in future, when it goes tits up..... by which time you will be happy with somebody else, I'm sure, somebody who will treat you with the respect and love that you deserve.

My ex told me last night that he does not call his children in the 12 days he isn't here, or ask after them, or speak to their nursery for reports, or follow up on anything he is told about their medication or sleep or diet because it is too hard for him and he gets upset

My XH hasnt said to this to me yet, but it's only a matter of time....

I have had it said to me by friend's H's when they have split up. It's too hard for them, so they don't ring the kids...

It's such a pathetic excuse. They should want to hear about their week, school, etc.... they should think of the children who want to speak to them...

I ring DD every night that she is with XH and not me, to say goodnight and tell her that I love her and I will continue to do so. It makes me sad sometimes, but it is for her sake, not mine.. I have had to chase XH again this week, for not ringing DD. He says he will ring her in the week if he cant see her, yet doesnt. and when you think about how he texts/emails OW all day every day, I find it disgusting that he can't find 5 minutes to ring his DD.

These men are so far up their own arses. and of course OW is there to wipe away their tears and see how sad they are and how much they miss their children and of course it's all our fault, not theirs.....

Well done to you, enjoy the rest of your day.

[SplatSplat]

Namechanged as I wanted to pass this on.

You have been utterly marvellous OP.

I think when affairs happen because someone is a complete twunt, what goes around comes around.

A friend of mine shagged a man whose wife was pregnant. He left his wife and has never met his child, though he did pay maintenance. Friend and he shacked up and she fell pregnant very quickly and they married.

Fast forward 18 years and their marriage has been the best possible punishment for a pair of selfish entitled fuckwits that anyone could wish for.
Neither has ever addressed the personality issues that allowed them to behave in such a way.

I feel so very sorry for all the kids caught up in it, though. One was abandoned by their dad before birth and the others have witnessed their parents screaming abuse at each other for years.

And since I've been unlucky enough to need to understand more about affairs, I find it more and more difficult to listen to the friend's whining about her selfish husband. I mean, WTAF did she expect him to be - a mature adult who takes his responsibilities seriously! Really? None so blind as those who will not see.

And for double laughs, I know someone who knew the first wife - and they say the second was a carbon copy. Though this is clearly not the case in your situation OP.

So in this instance I think relationship karma will probably apply.

As truly heart-wrenching as it is now, I hope you will thoroughly enjoy having the last laugh

[Cantbelieveitsnotbutter]

Well done choco, dignified and made your point.
Enjoy the rest of your day
Xxx

[SpringyReframed]

Oh Choco, well done. You sounded brilliant to me.

I hope it gets easier and certainly it will never be as hard as today. I do hope you can enjoy some of the rest of your day x

[ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged]

I read your OP last night but couldn't reply as I was on my phone which I've had for over six months and still can't work properly and I just wanted to add to all the other voices that have said you did brilliantly. I hope you eventually manage to have some kind of benefit from the time your children spend with them (a break, some 'you' time, whatever) but for now just know that you have retained the moral highground and sent them off with some clear guidelines that will benefit your children. Seriously, you're amazing.