What would you say is essential in a good relationship?

[pleasestopcarolling]

I' m not looking for perfect just basic essentiais without which you think a relationship wouldn't work.

[MiniLovesMinxPies]

late=later

[Offred]

I haven't been rude married. i'm just not passive aggressive. The whole point is not that you aren't happy with your life. The point is that you seem to think your life is the way life should be organised and you were pretty nasty and smug about your life which actually I think sends some pretty unequal messages to children. What my life is like is immaterial, I am not the one trying to press my life choices onto others as though they are superior. If you are interested though there's no serious problem in my life!

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

My life is one way ofred. It is a way that has worked for us. All I was trying to say is that no-one stays together for 25 years without working at it and without making compromises on both sides. I don't believe I was nasty about my life and I certainly was not as rude as you have been.

I am pleased there is nothing wrong with your life.

[Offred]

Yes, well I'm telling you that I felt your post was one of the nastiest posts I've seen for a long time. Nasty and unhelpful. Not everyone believes that keeping a marriage together is an ultimate goal and it is extremely inappropriate to tell people who are unhappy to compromise more and then blame them for being influenced by their parents despite the very obvious fact that that is your motivation too. My mum has been married for almost 30 years, she sees this as the ultimate achievement too, she also believes she is happy but here health and her actual behaviour strongly indicate otherwise. She also "likes" cleaning up after her baby of a husband, it gives her a feeling of power and control in a situation where every aspect is ruled by my dad and what he feels like/wants. Fundamentally he just thinks he is more important than her, she would have said exactly that "I'd like to think its because he trusts my opinion" about not coming to parents evening also exactly the same thing about knowing what he was like when she married him.

[Offred]

I'd like to think he trusts my opinion is what someone says when they've been sent to an event by their boss. A parent's evening is about building home-school links for me and showing your child you are interested. If he's in court fair enough but sending you because he trusts your opinion as though you are his secretary doesn't sound very equal.

[MiniLovesMinxPies]

marriedandwreathedinholly, there you go again. Did I miss the bit where Offred said her childhood was abusive? You seem to read inferences where there are non and then respond aggressively.

Are you normally MarriedInWhite?

I would add, I don't think your marriage seems equal but not for the reasons Offred states. Your husband is a barrister? is that right, he has a more stressful job than you, is that right? it seems to me that a better paid, more high status job allows one partner to offload the personal and the private social labour onto the less "successful" less "valued" underling. I don't think that sounds equal. You may contribute in different ways but the fact that you say you knew what he was like when you married him seems to imply that he dictated that social pecking order from the very start of your relationship. If you are happy...good for you but equal? really?

[pleasestopcarolling]

Oh dear I'm sorry this thread has turned out like this.
It's clear that different people regard different things as essential in their relationships. I think equality is a subjective term and if both partners feel a relationship is equal then no one outside that relationship can judge. Equally my DH May feel ours go be equal whereas I don' t so it doesn't work. Compromise is an answer many have suggested and how much of that one is prepared to do is a personal choice. Neither DH or I are particularly good at compromise and there again is an issue.
I was a little upset by what married said but she did apologise so no one need take offence on my behalf.

[Offred]

I don't feel like she did say sorry though, she posted she was sorry you were unhappy immediately after spouting a load of hateful stuff assassinating your character. She's never apologised and I think her advice is unhelpful precisely because it promotes compromise which seems to be from the wife/dc for the dh and longevity of the relationship as the prize rather than the relationship actually being a good relationship.

I agree with minx about equality, it is what I was trying to say too. I don't think equality is about what you do so much as what your approach is. "I don't enjoy housework so that will be your responsibility I hope you are up to that" "I wouldn't have married him if I was unhappy with that" is not equality. Plenty of households with equality have unequal division of certain types of labour through circumstances including my own, it isn't roles being dictated by one partner.

Happiness is not the same as equality and a long marriage is not the same as a good relationship.

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

So you can sput nastiness but others can't then Ofred. You can give it but can't take it and run to tell tales to get those who tell a few hoome truths.

Mini - she made it personal so I made it personal back and repeated what she has been spouting on other threads.

Where do you get your ideas that being a supportive partner makes one the underling?

And yes I am usually Marriedinwhite - no doubt you have a problem with that.

Ooh how long will it take you to delete me because I answered back?

[Offred]

? Paranoid in the extreme. I didn't delete you, I didn't even read the post you wrote, by the time I came back it was gone...

Frankly if you weren't out of order it likely wouldn't have been deleted however I don't know what was said or why whoever reported it reported it.

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

Actually Ofred - don't diss my relationship by twisting words. I am happy; always have been - with a very good man and a very loving home. I hope you can be as happy as I have been. I resent no-one their happiness.

[Offred]

I'm assuming it was something about my childhood? Whatever was said about my childhood frankly strikes me as a bit irrelevant anyway... The issue we are examining is why married thinks her relationship is what everyone should aspire to despite it seeming to me to be not quite as great as she thinks and despite her seeming to be doing exactly what she criticised the op for; being influenced by her parents.

I think it's quite normal to be influenced by your parents. I think it's nasty to tell someone they need to compromise more when they are in an unhappy relationship and proceed to make out their unhappiness is down to their lack of responsibility.

Fact is parents influence children, nowhere greater than in how they conduct their relationships and it can be really hard to break patterns created in childhood. My mum's majorly influenced by her mum still now at 58. Married's influence from her parents seems to be this idea that people should stay married at all costs even the expense of happiness, as evidenced by her wanting her parents to stay together even though they were miserable. To pretend that is not influencing this idea of compromising for your dh so diddums doesn't have to use a Hoover and can instead completely focus on being important is a bit weird IMO.

[Offred]

I'm sure you are happy, my mum says that too. You may well be screamingly happy, that has nothing to do with equality.

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

I don't feel the need to refer to my DH as diddums and I don't use a hoover either. I am, however closer to your mother's age than you. My dH and I are equals - he is clearing up after supper as we speak.

I am truly sorry if your parents are unhappy and if they made you unhappy. Mine were incompatible. Neither was ever unkind or cruel or nasty to the other or to me. A party girl married a quiet man and they couldn't make it work.

DH and I have been happy since day one. We remain happy. I'm sorry if you disagree but every relationship requires a degree of compromise.

I do not have to go into the precise circunmstances of our lives but I am certainly not subserviant but am part of a happy and successful partnership that together we have lived and built on for 25 years. Had it not made me happy I would have left and could have left.

You don't appear able to hear or take on board anyone else's point of view without being offensive and that is rather sad I think.

[MiniTheMinx]

Is this your second marriage? or am I confusing you with someone else?

Anyhow I am glad you are happy. I am happy but what of OP???

How far should anyone be prepared to compromise?

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

No it isn't my second marriage.

No one should ever compromise their health, their safety or their happiness. I have never compromised any of those things and never would. Neither would I ever compromise the health, happiness, safety or security of our children.

This thread derailed and I am sorry the OP is unhappy. But if the things that can't be compromised are absent I hope she will work through it. The OP also said they had had children for 11 years and personally that is a huge turning point for a family - ime. The eldest ready to move to the next stage; the younger ones growing in independence and character. That brings an ease re the burdens of caring for small children - not to say it is less hard with teenagers - but the extra worries bring with them more freedom for the parents and more chance to get back in touch with each other as a couple.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

It was me who reported your post married. Because I thought it was disgusting.

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

Really. I recall it as being truthful. It isn't there now so I can't review it. However, as far as I'm concerned it was truthful and delivered what was required when I was under attack.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

It was unpleasant and irrelevant. Most people don't consider throwing someone's abusive childhood in their face well reasoned discourse. Rather,clutching at straws.

I don't necessarily agree with what Offred has said to you but I thought your statement was beyond the pale. MNHQ agreed.

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

Sorry - same principle applies. Ofred dug up personal stuff about me from another thread and she got it served back. There are no ircumstances where I would allow anyone to infer that either I or my children were existing in a demeaning or an abusove environment.

Anyway I'm not out for an argument and at least you have fessed up and ofred is not as dishonourable as I thought.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

I didn't "fess up" married,I was quite happy for you to know it was me.

I'm not looking to argue either,but I do think there is a limit. If what you said about Offred is true then it is deeply unkind to use it against her,it would have been something over which she had no control.

[Sugarbeach]

Only just read he OP an none of the responses, but...

RESPECT

But isn't there a saying that goes familiarity breeds contempt....

[Offred]

Dug up personal stuff? You mean remembered that your husband was a barrister?

Anyway, I'm sure I wouldn't have been terribly damaged by whatever you said about my parents, quite honestly it is completely irrelevant because I am not berating someone for being irresponsible and parading around giving the secrets of a long marriage as though this is the same as a good relationship.

My point is not that you aren't happy, it is that your relationship doesn't sound particularly equal or perfect and that I object to you banging on about someone's unhappiness in a relationship being down to them not compromising enough and being irresponsible. It is nasty and you haven't asked enough to know what the consequences of saying she should compromise more will be.

[marriedandwreathedinholly]

No relationship is ever perfect ofred. If you think that is possible you will never be happy. There are always degrees of compromise in everything that every functional person does.

My relationship may not seem equal to you because it would not be your idea of perfection - but I assure you my role in it is equal and my DH regards me as his equal.

I would never have been happy with a man who clocked off at 5.30 so he could come home and help me wipe down the paintwork and dust the dado rails.

Perhaps you should focus on what upsets you personally and deal with that rather than presuming to fight someone else's corner for them because you have decided that someone else's good, kind, loving relationship that has harmed absolutely nobody in this world is abhorrent to you.

Anyway - happy new year and much happiness in the future - I hope you find perfection in a world where nothing can be compromised. If your DH wants to go to the cinema and you have been invited out to supper and you want to do that - are you saying that you should stay in and do nothing because neither of you can compromise? Doesn't seem a recipe for happiness to me. Have you never said to your DH "you look worn out - you have a cuppa while I put the kids to bed"? Has your dH never said "I won't go to football on Saturday - you've been up with baby for two nights, now she's on the mend I'll takem out for a few hours and you have a rest". All compromises - all part of living together happily.