Why are we (mostly) monogamous? Is it meant to be this way?

[CookieRookie]

I've been musing over this for a while. I know so many people whose marriages have ended, read so many threads about affairs, cheating, fantasizing about someone else outside of the marriage.

I can't for a minute imagine ever DH or me having an affair but who can? Who ever on their wedding day thinks "oh I'll enjoy this while it lasts because some day one or other of us is going to cheat". Yet it happens. Why? Is it that marriage has lost it's, I can't think of the word but sacredness or something. Are we marrying to soon? Are we conforming to a societal norm without really considering the consequences? Is one partner for the rest of your life just not good enough anymore or was it never good enough and we humans decided it was taboo or immoral to live a polygamous or polyandrous life and so we settled into a acceptable norm.

The list of reasons for marriage breakups could be infinite but my real pondering in all of this is - are we just not meant to be monogamous but are reared to believe this is how it should be (nurture) or are we absolutely supposed to be (nature) but are failing on quite a grand scale?

I have no reason to fear DH could be now or would ever cheat nor have I any desire to cheat on him but sometimes I can't help the feeling that the bubble is going to burst, that it is somehow inevitable because monogamy is just a made-up ideal.

[OneMoreChap]

Offred
Co-parenting which would have required a degree of monogamy or polygamy for at least the period of child rearing, which enabled Homo sapiens to have a longer childhood, gave Homo sapiens an evolutionary advantage over neanderthals.

Interesting. Any linkage for that? I'd have suggested polygamy certainly with all children being brought up by "aunties" as younger, and then males reaching a certain age being brought up by males - but maybe I've read too much about separation of roles in modern research into be certain. Or possibly I'm talking half-remembered bollocks.

[Mayisout]

I actually felt fantastic about myself. I did not sleep with the guy thinking that he would fall in love with me or offer me anything other than a couple of fun nights. But I left his room feeling a million dollars -like there was a part of myself I had forgotten about that had come out and hadn't died after all

The 'I actually felt fantastic about myself' makes me really curious.

Fantastic because another man finds you attractive.
Or because you 'got one over' your DP?
Or sex can be as good as it was when you first met DP?
Or you can be a femme fatale, which is fantastic compared to a boring DM?

Which is it Scorpio?

[Charbon]

Scorpio I've posted a response to what you said on this thread, on your own current thread, as that seemed more appropriate somehow.

[CookieRookie]

I've just had another thought that might explain all the crazyness I feel.

Mayisout questioned scorpios feelings and it got me thinking. Of the four things May listed I thought "none of those are good" Why? Because DH wouldn't be involved.

Dh and I do have a good sex life, been a bit crap lately because of the news we got but that aside we really do turn eachother on and have a lot of fun. We've tried lots of different things I suppose you could say to spice it up and without going down what we would consider a strange path we've really done all there is to do with two people. I'd walk out of that room feeling a mollion dollars IF dh was with me. To me this means I want more but with him not without him! It would do absolutely nothing for me if he didn't know about it. It seems far more attractive to think he would be there, present, involved, watching or with another woman or whatever.

Does that make sense or does it sound like an excuse?

I've tied myself in knots today

[youngermother1]

Cookie, interesting about sleeping around before settling down. IMO, there is not enough of this and, I think, this leads to affairs in the future.

I suppose the best analogy is a child in a sweet shop who wants to sample all the varieties before deciding which one to settle with. If you try enough you will realise they all are good to begin with, but too many and the initial buzz disappears ( I realise the analogy is falling apart here so will move on) - If you have a number of relationships, then you know they all start with the same heady buzz and 'feeling a million dollars', but then settle down to varying degrees of contentment.
If you have done this before marriage/settling down in a monogamous relationship, then I think you are less likely to stray as you realise the benefit is short term and not worth the disruption they cause the your life (also the odd crush can give you some of the same feelings without the downsides)

Sleeping around can be very self-empowering or self-destructive, depending on where you were mentally at the time and what it was trying to achieve.

Most teens/young people feel they have very little control in their lives and will try and find things which they can control - if this was you, then it can be empowering as control in this area enabled you to take the uncertainties in the rest of your life.

However promiscuity can be an attempt to get security from another person (ie love/affection) and this can drive accepting more and more abusive behaviour from others as you 'fight' to keep them happy and looking after you.

As Charbon said, you can only be responsible for yourself and therefore need to learn self-love and respect to take into a relationship - this is then (hopefully) reinforced by your partner.

This is easy for some, who have good familial and parental support than others that lack this, hence children in care are more vulnerable to abusive behaviour.

Only you can answer which explanation suits your circumstances (or whether they are both cant)

Regardless of this, you are where you are and can build yourself to a position where the loss of your partner (either through infidelity or death) would not destroy you. There are enough threads on here to make me be aware of 'what would happen if I were alone tomorrow?' and have a vague awareness of my options. This, I think, makes me more relaxed about worrying about my partner.

Think that's enough unrelated babble from me - as you were

[Mayisout]

I'd walk out of that room feeling a mollion dollars IF dh was with me

Well, maybe there are alot of exciting deviations we all fantasise about and would like to try out - if we knew no one would ever find out.
If it's 'fine' to have fantasies but somehow not fine to act them out then if we could act out our fantasies with the absolute knowledge that no one would find out about them (and those involved are consenting adults), therefore they cannot have repurcussions on our marriage etc, then surely that is fine too.

Though perhaps some of the thrill is the risk of being found out.

[CookieRookie]

May I was reflecting on my own experiences and thoughts not judging anyone who fantasised or acted out anything different.

I apologise if I came across as judging.

[RedGreenRouge]

DP and I aren't officially monogamous. Until the last few years (we've been together for 8 years), we did have other sexual relationships. Never ongoing or emotional, though. Our relationship has developed from a fully open relationship to a (almost) monogamous one. I don't know whether this is our nature telling us that we should now become monogamous or whether it just became right for our circumstances over time.

The thrill doesn't do anything for us so we had a mutually understood arrangement.

[Mayisout]

No, I wasn't judging. Just rambling. Had found myself wondering if I would do certain things if I 'knew' I would never find out.

Had also thought that I would never have a fling because the thought of the repercussions - disappointed adult DCs, angry DH, shocked others, would stop me and was patting myself on the back thinking what a fine, considerate, upstanding individual I was. Which took me to thought above, would I do it if I knew I wouldn't be found out.... hmmmm, yes.

[Mayisout]

Should read 'knew' I would never be found out.

[CookieRookie]

"Most teens/young people feel they have very little control in their lives and will try and find things which they can control - if this was you, then it can be empowering as control in this area enabled you to take the uncertainties in the rest of your life.

However promiscuity can be an attempt to get security from another person (ie love/affection) and this can drive accepting more and more abusive behaviour from others as you 'fight' to keep them happy and looking after you"

I'm very on the fence in my own mind as to my reasons for doing the things I did and it's one of the reasons I keep going back to therapy. On one hand I tell myself I'm 100% sure I did all I did because I could and I liked it (some things I didn't like but rationalized them as men are stupid, please bare in mind that was my 19 year old brain). The depressed person I become without medication tells a very different story. That person felt lost, abandoned, hurt, desparate, scared, lonely and in need of attention. Male or female didn't matter. They wanted me, they came back. That person has some real regrets. The problem lies in deciding which one is the real me.

The gp says I have a chemical imbalance and the real me is found by taking medication to correct the imbalance. The therapist thinks the medication hides the real me from past hurt and it's better to deal with it and then decide how I feel. I don't lik crying. I don't like picking apart hurtful things and who knows maybe they're not really hurtful. Maybe it's ok that I did all the things I did. Maybe like I said earlier in the thread the therapist and those like him are trying to force an ideal on me that doesn't fit. Maybe it's ok to have slept with many and still want to or want my dh to.

Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure if I should be afraid or happy that I don't know. Just sometimes all the analysis seems futile and I just want to live happily in the present, make plans for the future and forget the past.

[youngermother1]

I am not a doctor or trained in this field, so take what I say with due regard. The therapy you are having is obviously not helping you, the medication seems to be from your post above (only you and those close to you can know).
The body produces lots of chemicals on a regular basis and your activities and desire for these change over time. For example nicotine increase dopamine production, which is why people smoke. However users 'get used' to a higher level and therefore, when they stop smoking, the level drops and they have to get used to a lower level, hence the difficulty and also the reason it goes away over time as you get used to the reduced level.

Most anti-depressants are SSRI's, which effectively increase the level of serotonin in the brain. People are not sure how this impacts mood and why it is lower in some than others. Most treatment for depression include some form of therapy as well as the tablets are considered to treat the symptoms rather than the disease.

However there is no problem with just treating the symptoms, you get the end result you want.

My view of my past, which contains some unpleasant things, is that these were done by/to another person. I am not the person I was then, in terms of beliefs, status, relationships etc - I think this is true for everyone - the seed does not look or act like the plant and we give them separate identities.

One thing I found useful was to write a letter to that younger person as though they were a loved child who had confided in you. I found this helped me to understand the behaviour based on my increased knowledge of the world and changed current position. This did involve some crying, but was limited as I started to understand why people behaved as they did (my young self included) and enabled me to change my opinion of all involved (positively and negatively). Having the knowledge settled me as i understood better.

Remember, the only real you is the one now and you cannot change the past, only understand and learn what to avoid/do more of in the future

[scorpiomyrtlock]

Only posting on here because the question was asked directly - don't want to hijack the thread :)

Mayisout asked which it was:

Fantastic because another man finds you attractive.
Or because you 'got one over' your DP?
Or sex can be as good as it was when you first met DP?
Or you can be a femme fatale, which is fantastic compared to a boring DM?

It was mostly number 1 with a bit of 4 thrown in. Not 2 and definitely not 3, because the sex was worse. It was the lead up to the sex. There is more on the other thread if you are interested.

Cookie from what you say I'd say that you need to focus on what makes you happy. If picking over the past doesn't then don't do it, live in the present and move on. You can't change the past only the future. I am not sure there is such a thing as the "real me". I am on the one hand a happily married pillar of the community with a succesful job and happy family. On the other hand posting on Mumsnet about how I would like to sleep with men that I spotted on the train. Which is "real"? I haven't actually shagged a man on the train, so the reality that everyone sees when I switch off my computer is the first one. On the other hand not really sure I should be giving advice given my current state of mind. fwiw I don't think monogamy is "natural" it is a societal norm that we all subscribe to because of the consequences of non-monogamy most especially where children are concerned. I do think that more people would actually act out their fantasies if they were certain they would never be found out. I am living proof of that. My otherwise useless counsellor said basically the same thing - that most people do think about others sexually but don't act it out because the possibility of negative consequences outweighs the temporary thrill that you would get from an affair or infidelity.

[CookieRookie]

YM1 and scorpio thank you.

I have put myself in a quiet room and talked to the younger me. Painful beyond words but it did help. I say I want to forget the past but sometimes it's important for me to remember where I've been and how far I've come. It helps me to stay positive in the now. It's always painful but I don't dwell on it. I recall it, remind myself that it's over and feel grateful for what I have.

I've reflected a lot since I last posted and I keep coming up with the same answer. Bar a short period of sexual activity that I dearly wish I could erase I'm okay with the sexual experiences I chose.

The real me I think is the honest me. The person who accepts she's not perfect, life is not perfect. The person who can be a bit muddled and not 'fan-bloody-tastic' all the time. The human with ups and downs, happy memories, not so happy ones, good days and bad days. The person who knows she's loveable and kind and loyal and sometimes a bit crazy. The person who knows that she's done many things she can be proud of and will do plenty more. The person who is writing this. This is me. Hi!

I talked to DH about all this last night and showed him this thread. It was good. We talked about our infertility problems and the whole notion of monogamy. What we both agreed upon was that the questioning of whether it's natural or not doesn't matter, what we both feel, need and want matters and as long as we're on the same page and keep talking we'll be fine.

Thanks to everybody for your posts. Very interesting and thought-provoking.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Glad you are feeling strong Cookie and that you talked to DH.

[CookieRookie]

Thanks

[letsgomaths]

The book "Thinks..." by David Lodge has a lot of interesting thoughts on this.