Why are we (mostly) monogamous? Is it meant to be this way?

[CookieRookie]

I've been musing over this for a while. I know so many people whose marriages have ended, read so many threads about affairs, cheating, fantasizing about someone else outside of the marriage.

I can't for a minute imagine ever DH or me having an affair but who can? Who ever on their wedding day thinks "oh I'll enjoy this while it lasts because some day one or other of us is going to cheat". Yet it happens. Why? Is it that marriage has lost it's, I can't think of the word but sacredness or something. Are we marrying to soon? Are we conforming to a societal norm without really considering the consequences? Is one partner for the rest of your life just not good enough anymore or was it never good enough and we humans decided it was taboo or immoral to live a polygamous or polyandrous life and so we settled into a acceptable norm.

The list of reasons for marriage breakups could be infinite but my real pondering in all of this is - are we just not meant to be monogamous but are reared to believe this is how it should be (nurture) or are we absolutely supposed to be (nature) but are failing on quite a grand scale?

I have no reason to fear DH could be now or would ever cheat nor have I any desire to cheat on him but sometimes I can't help the feeling that the bubble is going to burst, that it is somehow inevitable because monogamy is just a made-up ideal.

[Helltotheno]

I think monogamy is pretty much about the best we've got but as Charbon said, if it wasn't the default, I don't imagine any other alternative would meet everyone's needs.

People do expect too much from it imo, given that we're only human. I also think people confuse it with possession, which to me is completely bizarre... mainly this results in women blaming other women for affairs instead of the men who had the affairs, and people insisting on having access to their partner's phone, laptop etc after an affair, which to me is just wack. I really just can't imagine living life this way.. how exhausting apart from anything else. I definitely don't feel any ownership over my DH.. if he chooses to have an affair, it's not really an action I have any power over.

My ideal scenario would be to be able to have odd fling with someone else every now and then but I accept that's probably not doable and monogamy is the only alternative right now. Like everything else in life, there are pros and cons.

[ivykaty44]

we rarely here of bigamy as a crime in this century - yet in the 1800's people were often sent to prison for bigomy, people were not staying faithful but upping and leaving and then marrying again without a means to divorce.

People also had a lower survival rate through child birth adn pg so people may well marry two or three times having been widowed.

We have divorce, so people stay out of jail, we live longer and yet expect people to stay together longer.

marriage hasn't changed but life has moved on and got longer

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

[venusandmars]

I think it's a continuum - at one end people who feel biologically monogamous, and at the other end, well people who don't. Add to that a social construct (heavily influenced by the church) which promotes 'one man married to one woman' for ever, which skews natural tendencies towards monogamy.

The difficulty is that monogamy is pretty much an all or nothing thing. You either only pair with one mate for ever, or you don't. So it doesn't really matter whether you've had 2 partners or 2,000. And once that barrier is broken where do you draw the line? Do you ignore the 6 people you slept with / had significant relationships with before you were married, and remain monogamous once you're married? Or do you accept that your life has disproved monogamy, and expect that you (or your dp) will have another partner at some time? Or do you discuss the possibility and options with the person you marry and agree to remain monogamous (despite the difficulties) or agree not to remain monogamous? Which values are most important to you both, and which could you both remain true to?

For my parents, monogamy was more important than personal happiness / self esteem etc - they stuck together whether they were happy or not. For me, being in an abusive relationship was wrong, and my personal worth and happiness were of higher value than 'staying together for the sake of the family'.

And then, if it is a continuum - we all have to be alert to the possibility that we, or our partners might be in a different place to where we think we/they are. So when someone appears in view who attracts our attention, well who knows how we will react?

[Charbon]

I wonder is there a typical person who has typical traits though or is anyone or indeed everyone capable of straying because they cannot control the needs you listed. are they instincts that need supressing or are they desires? I also wonder do we know we have these needs or do they jump up mid marriage and take us by surprise. I think that's my question actually.

I don't think there is any such thing as a 'typical person' or an unfaithful 'type' and would stress again that IMO infidelity doesn't have much to do with dissatisfaction with monogamy. People involved in affairs might accept the primary partner relationship for example, but often react very badly if their lovers are seeing others as well. So even in affairs there is usually an expectation of semi-detached monogamy.

I think everyone is capable of straying, but a lot depends on how a person's ego is defined and their own self-awareness. For some people, their egoes are disproportionately defined by being sexually desirable to others and nothing else quite hits the spot as a life-buzz. For others it's a slow-burning realisation that age and fading looks have dwindled those reactions and this depressing bit of self-awareness hits home when there are likely to be other life pressures mounting, such as ageing parents, children reaching independence, reaching a lower career pinnacle than was hoped for and a level of comfortable safety in their longstanding relationships.

I think monogamous couples who cope best with this are the ones who are pragmatic and discuss potential flashpoints in their individual lives. But that needs to be coupled with a lot of self-awareness. So a woman returning to the workplace after raising a family might acknowledge that this is a typical flashpoint because for the first time in years, her identity is not going to be disproportionately defined by marriage and kids. She's likely to be making more efforts with her appearance, her self-esteem is going to rise and there will be more opportunities to have collegiate friendships. If she knows herself well and realises she's going to get a buzz from others finding her attractive AND she recognises the situation as a flashpoint, she will often navigate this situation with ease. Similarly, if a man realises he's in mid-life crisis territory and is self-aware enough to know he's going to get a buzz from an attractive colleague boosting his ego, he can navigate away from trouble.

I think it needs a lot of communication and honesty in relationships to discuss these flashpoints and character traits with pragmatism and also some humour.

I don't think these urges should take any of us by surprise therefore and I'm probably more bemused when people say they were shocked at their own behaviour, or didn't see it coming.

[FastLoris]

I agree with Agatha re nature. I think the OP is based on a common fallacy that when we observe contradiction in human life, one side of that contradiction must be "natural" and the other not.

We are not "meant" to be anything. Evolution is not a single directing intelligence with a coherent goal in mind; it's a series of ad hoc happenings in which some selection advantages outweigh others, and a good number of disadvantages get carried along the way for all kinds of reasons. The result is a mash mash of often conflicting desires and expectations, hence the fact that life is so damn difficult.

The desire to shag everybody you find attractive and the desire to strengthen pair-bonding via monogamy are one such example. Neither is more "natural" or "meant to be" than the other. There are solid evolutionary reasons for both of them. As an individual, you pays your money you makes your choice.

I personally think people get too hung up about sexual monogamy, and it ends up causing more anxiety and distress than it's actually worth. Some of the most solid, peaceful, life affirming, long-term relationships I know are among gay men who aren't sexually monogamous. Now that we have developed much better ways to avoid pregnancy and STIs, I'm sure mainstream straight society could be a lot happier if we could relax a bit about sex and not insist on attaching so much significance to it.

[expatinscotland]

I guess it works for many.

I never saw it as obligatory, anymore than I see sexual orientation as a rigid construction.

As long as people in relationships are open and honest, I don't see monogamy or a particular sexual orientation as a rigid confine.

If it works for them, great, if not, well, as long as they're open about it and the other party is okay with it, fine.

But I'm also seen as weird and I no longer believe in God so that might affect my views.

[youngermother1]

I think ( having read dawkins) -

Nature drives us to procreate in the most successful manner for our genes. At its most base level for men this is simply shag and run as the effort in each procreation is minimal, and you see this in much of the animal kingdom. For women, the effort is much more and the number of children is so limited, finding a partner to support/protect them is very important.

However, in humans it is not so simple. Human children need significantly more support for a much longer time period than other animals, so there is also a benefit to the man in hanging around with one woman, as the likelihood of a single mother bringing up a child alone (back in the neanderthal day) was small.

Women also behave differently, as a male child from a 'shag and run' merchant is more successful, so this is a good father for the child, if he survives.

Thus the ideal situation for a woman is a shag and run merchant and a supportive cuckold. For the man it is to be a shag and run merchant.

Therefore who is the cuckold?

As humans are rubbish individually, they congregate in societies. These societies can the move to one of two options to solve this dilemma:

1. there is an alpha 'shag and run' male and all the other members of society are subservient and support the society and children, even if they never father any. This is similar to many ape/monkey groups.
   

1. Society puts a lot of pressure on men and women to remain together so society does not have to play the cuckold.
   

As a society, this message comes across as love/devotion etc. and no-one wants to admit things are not perfect.

Modern society has broken the 'nature' rules as we live much longer than previously meaning the children issue is not the only thing, women can survive and thrive as single mothers (without necessarily using the State), communication (in terms of books and films) has driven our expectations of relationships.

Also we have, as a society, a thinking that things can be 'solved' and the right answer is out there and we all live happily ever after.

Interestingly, I think forums like this, where we can share what the truth is (not always easy with friends) actually helps show that we all have issues with relationships and makes it easier to deal with the not perfect.

[Helltotheno]

All great posts... It seems clear that most are too rigid and have overly high expectations re monogamy. This combined with lack of self-awareness etc leads to the constant issues around monogamy proving to be a failure once again.

I don't see things changing any time soon though. More than ever, girls especially seem to be brought up with this knight in shining armour rubbish in their heads...despite all the evidence that is not working. It would be great to see a massive shift towards coparenting rather than monogamous relationships.

[CookieRookie]

Wow! Very interesting posts. I'm feeling very unintelligent slightly out of my league. I'm not well read or educated and don't articulate my emotions or thoughts very well but I do understand so that's good

What started me off with this line of thinking was finding out I can't have more biological children. I have a dd from a previous relationship.

Dh assure's me he's ok with it and as long as I'm happy he's happy. He loves me and dd and is looking forward to looking forward instead of back at the last 6 years of hell.

I started to wonder if, even if he doesn't realise it now, at some stage he will have an overwhelming need to father a child. That despite his thinking, conscious brain telling him he's happy there will arise some intrinsic, primal call for him to leave.

I've read some very sad threads on here too with partners blaming themselves for their partner leaving. Wondering what they did wrong, why they weren't good enough. Recounting some horrible things that were said to them before the other left. Charbons first post in particular I found very interesting because it pointed to reasons if you like, beyond those that are flung around in the death throes of the marriage. Very rarely do we see the leaving partner have accountability and instead blame is thrown.

Are they leaving because they're selfish assholes or is there some get out clause in the form of well it's in our nature but we've been fighting against it for hundreds of years?

If Charbons thoughts are correct and I believe she's certainly close to the reality, then what difference would living outside the norm or changing it completely over generations actually achieve? Millions of weakly connected people rearing confused children. An almightly fuck-up.

[scorpiomyrtlock]

I should have read this thread before posting my new message :)
Some very interesting advice and thoughts.

Charbon did hit the nail on the head about flash points etc. I am in the middle of one which I am not navigating very well.

I have not had a conversation with my husband about it and don't really know where to start. Have others?

Re monogamy, I do believe in it or thought I did. Maybe I was kidding myself. I do wonder, if as consenting adults, myself and my husband could both agree to have the "odd fling" that it could work. I have absolutely no idea however how this would work in practise or how I would even open a conversation with my husband about it. I also having read lots of infidelity threads wonder if I simply don't have a clue about what it would really feel like if these got out of control, either of us fell for the other person, or whether it is possible to compartmentalise these sorts of things. Probably not - which is why we come back to monogamy being the best solution in the end.

Just a thought - we live much longer lives now. Monogamy is great for child rearing. But when they have all left home, have children of their own- that's when the rubber meets the road and can be another flashpoint I am sure.

[CookieRookie]

Yes, it's the fear of emotions getting involved for me. As I said earlier sex can be just sex, love is different.

I remember the feeling when dh first kissed me. When I first felt his hands on my body. The first time we had sex. It was the best feeling ever! I still love sex and intimacy with him but it's different, better. Still, that raw animalistic lust doesn't exist. That feeling has faded and whilst I'm not sad because it has been replaced by something far better I would love to feel that again and I wonder if that's what drives some people to affairs. The body and mind wanting that feeling whatever it is. I wonder is it a drug. It can't be endorphines or I'd be exercising my ass off for the same feeling but it has to be chemical.

For that reason we've discussed swinging. I'm bisexual also and I would love to be with a woman again but not for love or anything else, purely for that feeling. I wouldn't dream of cheating on Dh but with his consent I would love to feel the touch of a woman again and yes I would love to feel that feeling with another man but my love for dh wins every time.

I don't stay with him because we're married. I don't not cheat because it's wrong it's because I love him and I respect him.

Mostly what I'm learning from this thread, not just from your posts but also from my constant questioning of myself is that we're complicated creatures and I don't really know myself what makes me me. Not the conclusion I thought I'd come to but interesting all the same.

[dontlaugh]

Scorpio, good post. I am also in the middle of a flashpoint as described so well by Charbon (excellent brilliant posts that woman btw). Monogamy works for us and I will continue to make it work as it is clear to me now that stepping outside of the social construct we have created will cause problems the the reason to step out (an affair) will not solve. Also I love dh and will never find another like him. Interesting to me is how easy it is to start something but hard to finish it. What tangled webs we weave.

[dontlaugh]

Just wanted to add that in response to Scorpio asking did anyone discuss with partner/husband, I did, in a jokey way, and also show him messages etc. It takes the threat out of it for both me and him. Because it is not a route I want to travel (can't believe SGB is unable to respond, should we set up a fund to replace the keyboard?!).

[OneMoreChap]

There's a wide range of research (code for a bit too busy to find it right now, but I will) which shows that there's a significant amount of asyoungermother1 puts it supportive cuckold s about.

Between 15%-30% I recall, though stand ready to be corrected...

[ReindeerBOOOOllocks]

I read a book called Sperm Wars, which basically said that biologically we are very much primitive and designed to procreate with those who we are attracted to and whose sperm will give any offspring the bet chance of survival. The books hints at the fact that monogamy isn't actually ideal for the purposes of recreation, and getting the best 'sperm' to win out.

However I believe what Chandon said, that it's social construction that makes us believe in monogamy. Marriage is an institution designed to keep us monogamous.

Couples can find their ideal partner and stay together for a long time, but if one in three marriages fail (that was the stats last time I checked) then it kind of shows that for a section of the community marriage doesn't work. Look at all the people on MN and in RL. There are plenty of relationship breakdowns/infidelities. I don't think the majority of people enter a marriage thinking it will end but if I'm honest, I went into marriage with my eyes open, and thinking that I want to be committed to this person for a long time, but that doesn't mean thbutting will work forever (cynical thing that I am). The country is more accepting now of people who have divorced, and I think this makes it easier for people to leave difficult relationships, which is a good thing.

So while I think monogamy can work for some, I don't think that this means it will work for everyone. That's not necessarily a bad thing either.

[Charbon]

I don't not cheat because it's wrong it's because I love him and I respect him.

That could turn out to be a problem in the future.

Because what you're saying is that your fidelity is controlled by your feelings for your partner and not by your feelings about yourself.

There are times in long relationships when the respect and love for a partner is harder to find. That's just being realistic about marriage, because feelings tend to wax and wane according to other competing pressures or periods of individual growth. It will be the same for him.

If on the other hand you decide that you won't cheat because you love and respect yourself and know that would be eroded if you deceived and lied to others, the resolve comes from within you and not external sources or people.

Negotiating an open relationship is a different matter. The people who manage to make those work are not attracted to subterfuge or illicitness and deceit and lying holds no appeal for them. But their internal boundaries are very secure and they are not dependent on others for their sense of self.

[OneMoreChap]

OK, some figures relating to this...

as an aside, of course, this is why Judaism is matrilineal. An older rabbi told, me "We always know a child's mother; a child's father - that is between the woman and her God".

[dontlaugh]

Charbon have you always been on MN or how have I missed your posts? You are exactly what I needed to read this morning . So right about feelings for self versus love for partner. An affair would say about me than my marriage, and I don't like what it would say. But some don't mind, obviously.

[Lueji]

We are not "meant" to be monogamous, in the same way that there is no "design" for humans.

However, it does seem that we have evolved to be mostly monogamous. And mostly, because apparently, in terms of testes size, amount of sperm produced, that ovulation is hidden, etc it does seem that the most successful strategy for our species has been to be mostly monogamous, but to have some degree of unfaithfulness.
It does depend on societies, though. Some societies are largely "promiscuous" others rigidly control access to women, in some men are allowed several wives, and in a few, women are allowed more than one husband (usually brothers).

As women become economically more independent, it looks like we are heading towards serial monogamy, as we don't need a "provider" so much.

Personally, I'd forgive more easily extramarital sex (not cheating, because that involves lying) than financially ruining the family through gambling or domestic violence.

[Charbon]

Thank you!

I tend to 'come and go' on MN, mostly because of work commitments. I try not to MN when I'm in the middle of a big project because it's so easy (for me) to get sucked into a thread and commit too much time to it. The only exception to that is if I'm on a support thread, when I usually find the time to help if I think a different opinion might be valuable.

[ReindeerBOOOOllocks]

Damn I got your name wrong charbon, sorry about that.

(note to self check the name before using!)

[ReindeerBOOOOllocks]

That is really interesting onemore. I didn't know that about judaism.

[MamaMary]

I think if both spouses believe wholeheartedly in monogamy and are fully committed to their wedding vows, then the marriage is more likely to last and both parties remain satisfied. Yes, affairs happen, but they are destructive and damaging.

If people are entering marriage thinking 'well, we can always divorce' they may not work at it/ have the right expectations/ attitude to make it work or last. I can think of some celebrities - wasn't it Kerry Katona and Jordan - who married stating that they could always divorce if it didn't work out? That's not commitment. Not surprisingly, the marriages didn't last too long.

I believe monogamy is the best set-up for stable, functional, emotionally healthy families. One only has to have a quick glance at the Relationships section of MN to see how infidelity is destructive to families. And there is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that 'open marriages' aren't successful - it's often a case of licensing one party (usually the man) to stray and jealousy is a huge issue that doesn't go away.

[oohlaalaa]

I'm happy in a monogomous relationship, as is DH, and our DD.

I agree with Lueji, I think our hidden ovulation points to monogomous, with some cheating.....