womens attitudes to crossdressing

[calikid]

hi everyone,

i write this as a response to the numerous comments on a variety of posts regarding reaction to any stories where crossdressing is a subject. Firstly i'd like to make it clear that i am male and as such appreciate i may be laying myself bare to the onslaught of comment that is likely to come my way. although male i love to wear "womens clothes". What I would like to know is simply why shouldn't I. can anyone give me one valid reason why I shouldn't? because I have never been able to think of one.
I am happily married with two dds and a beautiful wife , all of whom i love very much. My wife knows all about my dressing and has been with me to a couple of tv gatherings. i told her not long after we got together and she was totally fine with it, we have been married now for 8 yrs. we do not let the children know as they are still quite young.
In all other respects I am very much one of the lads......I like football and beer (but then so do many women!), i work in construction, I teach martial arts, I help with housework , I don't mind ironing(coz i can do it while watching tv!)
I take a size 10 and look pretty good in a skirt and heels, but then so does my wife, its just she can do it whenever she pleases and good for her. its just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates me.
I'm curious to know how the rest of women feel about the issue

[AltruisticEnigma]

I have a friend who cross dresses. I have no problem with it but most other people do.

If my partner was to do it, I'd find it a bit weird but I wouldn't stop him from doing it. It's not that I dislike blokes who wear clothing associated with women, it's because if I was to be intimate with my partner I would feel he was a woman in a sense, due to the clothes as it brings up so many associations we are taught to have. Not that I'm opposed to lesbianism either - quite on the contrary. But looking like a woman on the outside and then being a man underneath the clothes would confuse my brain. :O

However my friend likes that I don't judge him on it. His Mum has no problem with it, but it's been a dealbreaker in most of his past relationships. It's a shame really because if it's something he enjoys and feels very comfortable with, then it really shouldn't matter.

But to society, it does.

[likeatonneofbricks]

Napdamnyou, I really don't think that in case of OP it's about being a woman for a short while! He says he's manly but likes the clothes themselves, there could be lots of reasons apart from wanting to be a woman. I can think of one quickly - being starved of affection as a child (from the mother) and wanting to be 'hugged/caressed' by feminine clothes. Or - he thinks he looks good in a skirt ,and is very artistic/imaginative by nature (which doesn't get the outlet in his physical job).
It really does depend OP on HOW you do it, then you can ask why would people mind.

[Fairenuff]

Men can and do wear cashmere and silk, although not so much the pearls.

[AltruisticEnigma]

^Why should he or anyone else who crossdresses have to have counselling?

It's only wrong because society says it is, not because it is.

If you're really pedantic about it, nothing is right or wrong, it's just individual and group opinions. That's how it is.

But if it's not hurting anyone else, then it should be allowed to be done, iyswim.

[likeatonneofbricks]

yes Fair but it does tend to be thick or mixed with something (bar dressing gowns), and rarely cashmere on bare skin. He can't wear that to his work though if he's in construction, can he? cashmere would make him too sweaty haha.

[antsypants]

I would have zero issue if I met a man I was interested in and he was a cross dresser, I would accommodate it in our life as much as he wanted.

I would have an issue with someone who was dishonest about this, who lied and did not open up about it, keeping it hidden.

[Glaringstrumpet]

Sorry but busy doing work on my extension to the house today so will come back this evening. In the meantime keep those comments and questions coming

pictures cali teetering at top of step ladder with stiletto heel caught on rung and drill cable tangled in frilly petticoat!!

[ColouringIn]

My friend's late partner was a cross dresser, something he nervously disclosed to her after several weeks of dating. My friend accepted it and they were happy together until his death.

[Fairenuff]

yes Fair but it does tend to be thick or mixed with something (bar dressing gowns), and rarely cashmere on bare skin. He can't wear that to his work though if he's in construction, can he? cashmere would make him too sweaty haha

It doesn't have to be though does it. Is the OP wearing womens clothes because he either can't afford pure silk shirts, or because he is lazy about tracking down a source where he can order them. I get the impression that it's more because they are womens clothes, not mens.

And why would he wear cashmere to work anyway? Anyone, man or woman, working in construction would wear the appropriate clothing including steel toe capped boots and hard hats.

He could still change in the evening into a mens cashmere jumper, with nothing underneath, if that's that he wanted.

This thread has opened up more questions than answers tbh. For example, I would like to know where OP has met this prejudice in his life, other than supposedly reading lots of threads on mn

OP do you actually leave the house like this? What sort of thing do you wear. Where do you go and what are the reactions that you've met?

[unicorn72]

LostMyIdentityAlongTheWay i can understand why you have posted what you have I know a good few tv's cd's etc that have parnters like yourself so many when they do tell their loved ones are completely rejected so sending you a hug :)

my dp didnt tell me her about female side she just came about ( i just let it be known that she could come out so to speak without fear of rejection and that was within the second week )

we been together over 2 years now at first it would only be weekends and "stay" for the weekend etc but now she shes heres for the most of week. we go out when money allows us she has her own wardorb we are differtnet shapes so she cant always borrow my clothes Shopping is good loking for both of us I have been told by lots of cds etc that its so nice to see a GG suportive outside of the home too (ie got to places like sparkle etc) we have a great soical life its not sexual for her more like stress relife (if she is unable to dress for whatever reason for more than a few days etc ) she goes to work in brab but wear stockings etc under her work clothes etc

[anairofhopeFORGOLD]

Im not saying it is wrong or that all cd should have counciling but i think it would be helpful in understanding why this is important to the indiviual.

OP have you ever tried getting dressed up and going shopping and see what react you get? I bet most people would not say anything. Msybe the barriers are only in your own head?

If you want it to be acceptable in public then you need to start being public and challeng the status quo.

[Offred]

I literally have no opinion about what clothes you want to wear. I don't know why you are posting either - for validation? Because if you are happy you don't need the "rest of women" to be happy for you, this is the way to drive yourself mad. I don't know why we are being given so much detail about your life either, it is like your inner narrative is shouting "I am normal, I am normal, see how normal I am" I think you need to stay away from trying to get validation from Internet forums, this is likely to lead to insanity, validate your own feelings for yourself. I also think it is slightly weird to hide this from your children as though it is shameful, surely it is just what you like to do?

[anairofhopeFORGOLD]

Also why is it just women atturdtueds to cd why not women and men?

[Offred]

Anair - I thought it was because he was seeking validation from the peer group tbh.

[OhEmGee24]

I'd feel really uncomfortable if my dp wore any women's clothes other than stupid fancy dress. Sorry

[Gibbous]

I don't really give a flying fig what any man I know or don't know wants to wear until it came to a partner.

Because I have to agree with the poster upthread who said it isn't so much about throwing on a dress and sticking on a bit of lippy Eddie Izzard like. That's a style decision, which I'd be more than comfortable with. And proud of actually. I know a few guys who do the whole alternative dress and make-up thing and it is no more and no less than what is behind the reasons for women choosing the clothes they do.

But if it's taken it to another level with the full uber-feminine get up that very few women themselves seem to wear of seamed stockings, red stilletoes etc and the resulting shift in identity I'd want to know about the driving force behind that. And actually, tbf, I'd be concerned for a close female friend if she felt she was having to display her gender identity so assertively with. That is a different kettle of fish to the everyday style decisions that everyone makes and I'd need to be comfortable with why it does go beyond them. And that need would be the offputting thing I think, not the result.

Like I said only with a partner though, it's none of my business with anyone else.

[TheSmallClanger]

I agree with what someone said on the previous page about a lot of TV men seeming to parody femininity. It can feel insulting.
At various times in my life, I've been part of the goth and industrial music/clubbing scene, and I've seen lots of men wearing skirts and makeup. Some of them look great: DH's friend in a tight black t-shirt and a short kilt-type skirt, with boots, is something I wouldn't mind seeing again, and I once saw a very tall man in a pinstripe kimono who looked amazing. Lots of the younger men tend to wear very wide-legged trousers, platform boots and tight little vest tops these days, which would look equally at home on a woman.

However, I've also seen some really unconvincing T-girls, much less often. There's something a bit odd and (to me, rightly or wrongly) uncomfortable about men wearing flouncy dresses that are often age-inappropriate - too young or too old, the ever-present high-heeled court shoe and old-lady makeup. I don't know whether this is an issue of over-feminine parody, or simple not dressing right for one's age or physique, and it's possibly all of these. I also don't really understand men who wear women's underwear - hell, I try not to wear most women's underwear, which digs in, is impractical and offers little coverage or warmth benefit. I briefly dated a man who was a bit obsessed with underwear, and I found it a turn-off. Actually, thinking out loud, I can see how finding your partner in women's clothes, especially the traditional kind, might feel a bit judgement-ish, as if that's how he sees women, and by extension, you.

[hellymelly]

My only objection would be aesthetic. You may think you look good in a skirt and heels. I think that is highly unlikely. I have yet to see the man who looks stunning in a frock. Silly yes, vain yes, at best brave, but gorgeous? no

[Offred]

FFS surely gorgeous is in the eye of the beholder?! Anyway this is kind of proving my point... Other people are always going to judge your appearance some will like it, some won't. There will undoubtedly be a herd effect where those who fail to comply with what is "normal" fail to satisfy in terms of compliance but this is nothing to do with "being gorgeous" or not it is about tribal behaviour and fear of the unknown, I think. The only person to whom your outward appearance should matter is you, other people are entirely unimportant, you really need to be able to love how you look and reconcile how you want to dress with how you feel.

This quote is appropriate: "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." nietzsche

I think if you are trying to fight the tribe, whether or not it is a real battle, and yourself as well you will be utterly miserable.

[Yogii]

Izzy's question is the one. Is it sexual.

As for 'sensual'. Taking a bath can be sensual for some, but few people want to position their baths where people they don't know will observe them.

If it's just the injustice and ignorance of society that infuriates you, then presumably you want to be able to do this at times and in places of your choosing, otherwise it wouldn't matter, because what you do in your own home nobody knows or cares about.

So if it is really just sensual for you, can't you get your sensual thrills over and done with in a few hours at home in the evening?

I rather suspect that you like being seen like this. That's the thrill for many CDs.

And if that's the case then I pity your family. The wife who goes along with it but actually hates it, the kids who would be horrified by it if dad decided to do the gardening in a summer dress.

Get your fix indoors. If you can't do that then join/start CD Pride and who knows, in 20 years in might be the norm and you'll be fulfilled. Either way, stop looking for validation and have the confidence to do what you want to do.

[solidgoldbrass]

I think keeping it from the children is reasonable given that the world is full of fuckwitted mundanes who want to attack anything that doesn't fit in with their narrow definition of normal, so the child whose parent does something a big unusual might be bullied; it's reasonable to want to protect a child from that by being discreet.

[AltruisticEnigma]

I see what you mean, ana.

[OurPlanetNeptune]

Society should have no say in what anyone wears as long as they refrain from being indecent in public. Cross dressing hurts no-one (except in relationships where the other half finds it unacceptable). calikid, I also cannot think of a valid reason why you as a man cannot go out dressed in your cd outfits. Of course you would probably face a lot of prejudice and ridicule, but that is the world we live in today and hopefully one day this will change.

However, personally I would not find it acceptable in my marriage. If my husband told me now that he was a secret cd I would have a huge problem continuing the marriage. It would the deceit that would bother me the most. And no, in my dating days I would never have dated a man who was a cd. I accept that it massively intolerant of me. I also would not have dated a man who smoked or took drugs. Those two would also be marriage breakers now.

I know a man who is a cd. His partner (my friend) hates it because he can't have sex if he does not 'dress up'. I don't think the relationship will last. He will not stop (he shouldn't have to to be honest), and she finds it a sexual turn off (which she has every right to feel). Result: impasse.

At the risk of a flaming I am going to confess that I find cd men faintly ridiculous. For the cd's that I have known (via my friends boyfriend) have a warped idea of femininity, somewhat sexist and antifeminist. The characteristics/behaviour and clothes are usually a caricature of womanhood.

I do not think that cd can be equated with a woman wearing trousers. When I dress in jeans or trousers I do not take on a male persona. I do not take on a man's name and I do not hide my breasts.

No, it cannot be equated with the Scots man who wear a kilt. Indeed, I am from an African tribe where men wear a type of sarong. None of the men in my family try to emulate a female when they wear these garments. They wear the clothes for historical and practical reasons, there is no sexual/sensual thrill gained from wearing the clothes.

calikid, the cds I have met are leading me to conclude that it is a compulsive sexual fetish where the cd is usually a narcissist. I could not live with such a person.

[Ilovedaintynuts]

If I'm honest I would be utterly revolted by a male partner wanting to wear women's clothing. It's always disgusted me really, for as long as I can remember.

In fact within a few hours of meeting my husband I knew he was 'the one' and asked him if he had any awful secrets like was he a mass murderer or did he like wearing women's clothing (sorry!). It's still a joke between us.

I honestly cannot empathise with women who continue relationships with cross dressers. They seem so...humiliated...and almost emotionally abused.

The men themselves just look so ridiculous, the thought of my big butch 6'4" husband in a floaty dress makes me want to laugh and swiftly pack his (pink) suitcase.

My honest opinion.

[DizzySiddal]

It's a non-issue for me. It's just clothes. I have more of a problem with society's inability to accept anything that's not the norm. And give me a cross dressing dp over one that wears hideous 'designer' t shirts/replica football shirts/track suits (etc etc) any day.
Btw I've had several relationships with men who cd, and no, they didn't end because of that. The cross dressing was as incidental and inconsequential as what colour toothbrush he used.