How would you react if.....

[MaggieAtwood]

your DH was meeting up for drinks with an old girlfriend/female colleague and didn't tell you and it had happened on more than one occasion?

[maleview70]

As you will already know deep down, he is taking the piss. He has told you the minimum he has to.

As usual implies many times not twice.

[youtalkintome]

No way he is lying, really sorry OP. Would you do this? and why cut all contact if it's so innocent and ring her and tell he hadn't been truthful, if it was just innocent surely she would be like WTF? Sorry.

[Bluebelle38]

'As usual' Hmmmmm. Messaging her in bed... I'm sorry, but that is dodgy as hell. I'm so sorry.

I wouldn't call the ex either, why lose dignity as has been said?

I'd have it out with him, not that he will confess anything but at least you save face that you haven't been fooled. What an idiot he is.

[jasper]

He can meet anyone he likes for a drink.
He didn't tell you because he knew you'd be suspicious and react as you did.


That's my view.

If I am wrong and everyone else is right you can disapprove all you want and get him to remove numbers/ FB accounts and stuff but there is not a thing in the world you can do to stop him shagging someone else if that's his plan.

[Charbon]

But the OP has said that she wouldn't have been possessive or unreasonable about a drink with the friend and her partner has agreed this to be the case.

The OP is only reacting like she is because of the secrecy and the lie about the Facebook messaging, not because her husband wants to meet someone for a drink.

[bubblechristmaspop]

Jasper is always posting polar opposite view points on a thread, just to make a point, cause a stir and generally upset op's by laying the blame at their door for being terrible wives.

I'm sure they must be a knobber from pistonheads.

[yeahyeahitsallmyfault]

I think it's pretty certain he met more than once before, but like I say, how do you move on from this? He's got to be honest with you. Why was he doing this? Wanting to be wanted, excitement? Is he always like this? I think you need to talk about it. He may not have shagged her/met her xx times, but emotionally he betrayed you and that doesn't fix itself.

BTW I suppose others are right about not ringing but I'm not very good at dignified silence! I'd just want to talk to her, not bellowing, but a little sarcasm is def due. Sod a dignified silence, but then I'm not very british! ! !

[Bugsy2]

It is easy to suspect the worst & start making accusations, but just take it slowly. Have a think about your relationship & what you want out of it.
I agree that your OH should not be meeting up ex-girlfriends for anything "as usual" without your knowledge. It is just basic courtesy to mention something like that to you. It could be perfectly innocent, maybe she has suffered a bereavement & needs a shoulder to cry on - but he should have mentioned it to you. It is troubling that he didn't come clean about it.

However, as someone else said men are very different creatures & maybe it meant / means so little to him that it didn't even cross his mind. Or it could be that his intentions were not so pure!!!

You've said your bit now & he knows the score. Try not to mention it anymore. Keep your beady eye on him, but without him feeling like he is being constantly watched. Don't let him take you for granted, keep him on his toes & make sure he remembers why he is with you - rather than anyone else! (In a feisty kind of way, not a demeaning selling yourself kind of way - if that makes sense).

[tigermoll]

OK, before we string this guy up, it does sound as if he is making all the right noises, and might be genuinely sorry.

He has admitted that he was out of line.
He has promised not to have any more contact with the ex
He has removed her from his phone and fb.

If he was genuinely sorry, what else could he do? (that's a genuine question, - does anyone have any suggestions?)

I'm in two minds about this one.

Re. calling the other woman, - I'd be tempted to do this, but am not sure how helpful it would be. As you say, if this is an affair, then they will have their stories straight. Or if he had devious designs on her, of which she was unaware, then she will say that it was innocent. And also, how do you know that the number he gives you is really her? I don't want to sound like a scaremonger, but I was once asked by a family member to conceal his infidelity from his girlfriend by pretending to be the 'other woman' on the phone and confirming that 'nothing happened'. I refused, natch, but just goes to show what lengths people will go to.

[bubblechristmaspop]

I think the reason people are "stringing him up" is because these men are ^all
the same. I hate the way people always refer to a script, but it's so true.

He happened to never tell her. Men who cheat, or want to, if that is indeed the case. Often only admit to what they have to.

So he concealed the whole meeting up thing. He was messaging her in bed, then sharpishly shut it all down when he thought op saw.......all sound innocent so far?

He then goes into self defense mode, blaming the op, saying it's because of her he kept it secret. He then goes onto back track saying, yes I'll delete, cut contact, blah, blah.

So he has had to admit to something as op has seen the message. But he doesn't have to admit to anything she can't prove does he? As usual, many people including op read this as a regular thing, so he is probably lying still. Op can't prove it, so she should go with her instincts. She needs him to star being honest. As usual is not twice. He knows it, op knows it, we all know it. So she needs to push him for answers.

Going from such extremes like he has, is quite classic behaviour, I'm lead to believe.

I'd say if he wasn't having affair, he was building up to it. There is no way this behaviour pattern from him is innocent. They are always really sorry when caught no?

[tigermoll]

That's true, it is all so depressingly similar, - are there night classes for philanderers that ensure they all follow exactly the same pattern?

But (just to play devil's advocate) just say this is the scenario: the boyf allowed himself to get sucked into a flirtation (which is bad, but understandable) which he kept secret as a harmless little ego boost (as he told himself). The relationship with his girlf has so far been good, and boyf never intended to actually stray, but allowed it to go a bit further than he would have liked (ie meeting up for secret drinks under the guise of 'old friends'') Nothing physical occurred, but he got a bit of a kick out of being desired, and who wouldn't?

Now he has been found out. He is utterly panic-stricken and realises that what he has done is totally unacceptable. He is facing the end of his relationship, and (although he should have thought about this before the TFI shennanigans) he would do anything for this not to happen.

In this scenario, how might the genuinely remorseful, lesson-learned, never-do-it-again boyfriend distinguish himself from the lying slimy lothario?

[tigermoll]

....or have I just spent 5 mins typing out a justification for adultery?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Am very sorry you're going through all this.

There are an awful lot of red flags here.

Its the secrecy too I'd have a problem with; he did not want you to find out. The FB stuff would also be suspicious to me; he jumped out of his skin for a reason and its this other woman. He is emotionally opting out of your marriage.

I would also say that "as usual" does not imply twice; this seems to be a long standing situation.

He is likely to be having an emotional affair with this colleague. Its a possibility that unfortunately for you cannot be discounted. I also think you have more to discover re him and this woman.

[bubblechristmaspop]

Because tiger, if that were the case. Until he can be truthful to everyone including himself. This will keep happening.

Secondly depends where op draws the line as what you have described whils not physical, is emotional affair territory.

Either way. He's still lying to op. That is the problem. The as usual gives him away.

[tigermoll]

Hmmm, that's true BubbleChristmasPop....having read the OP's update on his 'confession' it doesn't exactly read like a full and frank disclosure of the facts. More like 'the minimum I can get away with, filling in any gaps with "I don't know why I did that" And we only met up once. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.'

Yeah, thinking about it, it's not very impressive. He is still lying about what he was doing, and also about why he hid it from the OP. He could have said 'I'm sorry, it was definitely flirty, I was getting a huge ego boost out of it, and lying to you, and it was utterly shameful and totally reprehensible. I was a total idiot, and I allowed my enjoyment of it to blind me to how pathetic it was. I'm so sorry.' Whereas what he's said is ' I don't know why I kept it secret. But nothing happened.'

[youtalkintome]

If you met an ex as a one of then not so much problem it happens maybe you were curious, personally i wouldn't keep it a secret but he has arranged to meet her again at " the usual place" I have best friends that i don't have time to catch up with more than once a month because of work life etc never mind taking the time to catch up with old friends and turn it into something regular.

It's all very dodgy.

[MaggieAtwood]

Thank you so much for all your advice. It helps to get other peoples perspectives on things.

We are hopefully going to have a talk about it tonight. I just want to get to the bottom of why he chose not to tell me. Once I know this I will be able to move forward.

The sad thing is I genuinely thought I could trust him, especially after being cheated on before. I spoke to my friend today and realised that I can't go through everything I did with my Ex again. I have more self respect.

[bubblechristmaspop]

I hope you can work it out op.

One thing I would do is try and work out why he omitted to tell you, like you say. But work out if he is really telling you the truth.

As you say yourself, "as usual" sounds a lot more than once previous. Personally I think he is telling you what he thinks is the bare minimum he has to. I do think there is more to come with regards to her.

So I'd be extra careful and really look and see if he is being truthful to you, even now.

[crazyhead]

I am friends with a couple of my exes, and v occasionally meet them for a drink, but I'd never not tell my OH about it in advance. In fact, I'd tell him if I ended up randomly going for lunch with a male work colleague, or anything with me and another bloke.

For me, this is just out of good manners and respect to him - he isn't the least bit a jealous person.

I like having an independent life but I don't want a separate life, and let's say an ex or male colleague ever hit on me at drinks/lunch or said something inappropriate, I would tell my OH what had happened.

I think personally if you want to be friends with the opposite sex whilst in a relationship (apart from in situations with people you KNOW nothing could ever spark off) then you should be careful to be very open and clear about boundaries, and that your DH should do this too.

Just my opinion.

[MaggieAtwood]

Well, we had a chat.

He bitterly regrets not telling me about them meeting up a couple of months ago. He still maintains nothing has been going on, that she is just a friend and it was just a catch up for half an hour over coffee.

As for the planned 'date' - he said that because he is under a lot of stress with work/renovations at home etc. he knew she would be a good sounding board. She's got a bubbly personality and he thought that she would cheer him up.

He is adamant that they have only met up once before and that this 'date' would only be the second time. He does seem genuinely sorry and doesn't want me to leave him.

We have two kids together so I feel like I should give it a go for their sake. If he is telling the truth I will be throwing my marriage away for nothing....but if he isn't being honest then I am going to look like a fool again :(

[bubblechristmaspop]

See there is red flags as people say all over that. He was looking to her for emotional support, outside the marriage. He needed her to "cheer" him up.

I think at best this was an emotional affair at worst a physical one. I don't think as usual suggests a one of two month ago meeting either.

No one was saying leave him Ofc not, you know him better than anyone. But you asked for opinions to be clearer. Mine is, he hasn't told you the truth, the bare minimum. So I think you need to be extra vigilant. I think he is taking you for a mug, yes.

[bubblechristmaspop]

One off*

[fiventhree]

Once, about 8 years ago, my h arranged to meet a woman. The kids passed me his mobile phone, as it beeped, and it was her reply. They hadnt yet met, and didnt. I trusted him not to do it again. Earlier this year, in September, I put a thread on here asking for advice about 6 years' worth of suspicious behaviour- mainly photos on computer, which I found occasionally, and which he said were accidentally downloaded with music. Bubblegum may remember this! The thread made me see that there was more to worry about, although I still didnt quite accept it.

Soon after this, after moving out of the bedroom, war broke out between us, which ended with us at Relate. He still denied all. Finally, after the third week, when it became increasingly clear that I would not back down or drop this issue, despite progress at Relate, I got the story. Of course, he had been receiving photos of other women, and many more than I had discovered. They were from one off sex conversations on yahoo pool, mainly late at night, but eventually any time of day.

The interesting part for me was the follow up stuff about why. He had felt for a long time increasingly powerless, often with me too, and criticised. He was criticised, and underappreciated too, although only because I felt the same about him.

We are currently doing a really good job at repairing our relationship. He is absolutely insisting that he was a real bastard, with openness/communication issues, and I have not asked for him to say this. Quite frankly, he is a changed man, and has told the kids and my family that he has treated me badly for years, and is far less keen to hear me say the same. He has busted his ass at Relate.

So I would say that there are real red flags here, OP, and that if you want to avoid years of uneasy half suspicions and lack of trust like i had, you might want to have a real relationship MOT, maybe at Relate.

ps Bubblegum, I thought you were a right hard witch at the time, but you were spot on!

[Charbon]

Thanks for updating OP, but what a shame he didn't take this opportunity to be honest with you.

If he'd admitted that he felt a spark with this friend and realised now that he was getting something from the secrecy and the flirting and this had been a wake-up call, I think you could have worked things through. Because that at least is honest, plausible and could happen to us all.

He still can't account for the secrecy though, or why the friend would have said 'as usual' when there had only been one previous meeting, ages ago.

Ironically enough, you might find the trust has been damaged far more by his lack of honesty last night, than the original incident. Pragmatically, I'd advise you to be very vigilant because there is a reason he doesn't want you to know the truth.