Is it OK to stop someone else from being a parent?

[tigermoll]

(first time poster, please be gentle :) )

I have been with my OH for 2.5 years, living together for 1, no children or pets. We are very happy, love each other very much, and I hope that we can stay together for the rest of our lives.

So far, so peachy. The issue is, I have never been very interested in marriage and babies, and throughout my twenties, this ambivalence has hardened into definite dislike. I am now 30, and find it hard to imagine ever getting married or having children. My partner, on the other hand, has always wanted very much to get married and have children. He loves kids, has always assumed he would have a wedding and a wife, and goes all gooey when he sees babies in prams.

We have had several talks where I have been very clear about the marriage/babies thing, and he says he is happy for the r/ship to proceed, knowing that it will mean he misses out on these things.

BUT: the thing is, I know he's not really happy. It breaks my heart to see him holding friends' children, as I can see he is thinking: 'I'll never have one of these'. We have had several 'chats' that have somehow developed an edge over my views on marriage (how 'not everyone thinks like me, and most people see marriage as a good thing', ostensibly in an abstract discussion, but I started to feel like I was somehow being got at)

So my question (which has turned out pretty long, sorry!) is this:

Is it fair of me to proceed with the r/ship, knowing that it will cause my lovely, lovely partner to miss out on a huge part of life, stopping him from being a father (and I'm pretty sure he would be an excellent one) and possibly causing him to resent me? What if, (god forbid) we split up, and then he gave up kids for a r/ship that ended anyway? It seems disingenuous to say 'well, he says he's fine, so even though I know he isn't, I'll just carry on'. Should I wait to see if I change my mind (which is possible) and if so, how long should I wait?

Thanks for listening to me ramble xx

[passionsrunhigh]

Annakin, if all people thought long and hard about all the hard work, and if it was not an uncontrollable desire/instinct, then the human race would die down! But, i agree, it's better to wait till you want it, rather than it being an accident when you too young or not ready. Then you just feel not controlling your own life. But the chances are you yourself would feel like having a child when you became older, majority do. I'm in the minority so far, so I'm not being preachy.

[xkittyx]

I don't believe you are stopping him from having children, as you've been very honest and upfront about where you are with the whole thing. I wonder though if you should have another chat with him and make sure he's not just assuming you'll change your mind at some point. For example, how would he feel if you did go ahead with a permanent form of contraception, eg tubes tied or essure?

I speak as someone who doesn't want children either. I've heard some people say that they didn't want children until they were with the right man. For me it was the opposite. Met the love of my life a few years ago and it absolutely clarified the issue for me. We're blissfully happy and I'd hate to change a bit of that - I adore it being just him and I. Unlike you though I was very keen to get married - I think I wanted that like some people want babies!

Anyway am 36 now and I become nothing but clearer in my mind that this is the right decision for me. Fortunately my DH is of the same mindset as me and wants to keep it just the two of us.

If DH had said at the start that he wanted children with me, and before we'd made our decision otherwise I might, maybe have considered it for his sake, as it's obvious he's someone that would have done his fair share and more. If he suggested it now though I'd feel pretty horrified and it would be a big crises for us.

[passionsrunhigh]

Annakin, hopefully you will experience longing for the second child! good idea to wait, plenty of time! childbirth always horrified me too ( and pregnancy), sorry to hear it was too late for pain relief. You'll be much more experienced though if next time comes. And the main thing is that your dd is not difficult and you have such a good rapport (doesn't always happen immediately, btw).

[solidgoldbrass]

Please bear in mind that there is nothing wrong with you. Most of the insistence that it's natural for all women to want to breed is nonsense - not everyone is interested in reproducing but the culture we live in is geared up to getting women both to have men's children and service them domestically - a lot of men don't like the idea of a woman remaining childless and unmarried because it means she can do what she wants. She is not under a man's ownership and control.
Of course, lots of people do want children, and that's fine. Lots of people remain unsure, have them because it's the done thing, and it all turns outfine, too.
Unfortunately, some people have children because they can't stand the social pressure any more and then find out that they are awful parents, hate being parents, wish they had never had children, etc etc. If they are men, they usually fuck off, leaving the children with the woman. If they are women, they either accept that they are stuck or (should they leave the children with the father or even have the children fostered/adopted) brace themselves for a lifetime of contempt and hatred from mainstream society as Mothers Who Left Their Children.

[trixymalixy]

I don't believe you are stopping him either. It's up to him, you have made yourself clear. If it is a deal breaker for him then he should be the one to end the relationship.

You sound like a friend of mine who had always made it clear she didn't want marriage and kids. Her boyfriend decided it was a deal breaker as he wanted a family, broke up with her and went home to his home country. She realised she couldn't live without him and followed him halfway around the world, they got married and she is weeks away from giving birth.

[Morloth]

I think as long as you are and continue to be honest with each other it is fine.

Given how big a deal wanting babies is though, I do think there will come a 'crunch' time where he will need to make a decision whether to stay with you or whether to see if he can find someone else with similar wants.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children. It is only wrong to string someone along for years with false hope, but you are not doing that, so no worries.

[Springyknickersohnovicars]

You are being honest, his choice. Yes you are being fair as you are being honest.

[LoveBeingAMummyAgain]

Can I ask why you do not want children?

I am asking nit because every woman should, but because I'm wondering if he thinks it's a rubbish reason. Your comments before about leaving it on a bus or the name aren't the reason. They are the throw away response you've developed whenever anyone asks.

I have a very goof friend who doesn't want children, doesn't want to marry either.

You told him, if he's not listening and you really believe he is waiting for you to change your mind then you do need to decide if you can carry on.

[solidgoldbrass]

Something else to bear in mind - everything is ok for now. And you are both still quite young. Of course you may change your mind - but so might he and you might end up with your positions reversed. Or he might start to whine and pressurize you at some point in the future (at which point you should probably bin him if you are still adamant you don't want DC).
Or one of you could fall in love with someone else, drop dead, become a gambling addict, get the urge to move halfway across the world, convert to some or other dipshit religion... The thing is, there are no guarantees at all in life. It's perfectly fine to not want children, or to want them very much. As long as you are honest with yourself and other people, you have the right to make the choice that suits you and not be pressured into something you really don't want to do.

[Robotindisguise]

Agree with sgb. Also, I think it's easy to fall into the trap pre-settling down of thinking your eventual life partner is the only person you're looking for, and that relationship is the important one, and any other relationship which might not be that one should be ended, and you should move on so you can find The One.

Actually, once you've found The One, you look back on some relationships and can see how valuable and worthwhile they were in themselves and wouldn't be without them. Others, of course...

[Sofiaintherye]

Tigermoll, I think your approach is right and honest and you should not have second thoughts. It is true that you risk loosing your partner, it is up to you to judge to what extent this risk is real and whether you want to take it. But on the other hand he would be taking an enormous risk if he left you just for this reason -leaving a parner he loves, well, I think he would regret that decision during his whole life, even if he had children eventually.
Having a child is obviously a huge responsibility and nobody should have babies when having the slightest doubt.
In your case I would go on enjoying your relationship, you are young and people and life changes. You migh or might not change and your partner might or might not change, mabye in 3 or 4 years your partner will see things differently.

[Morloth]

You don't need a reason to not have children, you only need reasons to have them.

[MissPricklePants]

you have told him that you do not want kids/marriage so he has the facts. He could choose to leave but he hasn't, unlike my ex!I am a single mum and have a 2.4 year old dd, she was very much wanted but her 'dad' decided after she was born that he did not want to be a parent or have a child. So he was absent for a while then decided he wants to see her for a few hours, not parent!

[tigermoll]

My reasons for not wanting children are hard to explain...

I could give lots of convincing-sounding reasons; - the expense, the hassle, the broken nights, the idea of sacrificing the best years of my life in looking after someone else rather than doing things I enjoy. If you have children, there will always and forever be someone whose needs outrank yours, and you can only start thinking about your needs once you are sure ALL of theirs have been met. Never again will you truly be free to travel the world, go where you want, change your mind. It feels like basically an admission that you have given up with your own life.

The endless, ceaseless, mind-numbing domestic drudgery of looking after a small child; all the washing and cooking and cleaning and scraping food off someone else's chin into their mouth. The tedium of having to engage with a child's mind, of not just having to interact, but actually put their needs before your own. Their bottomless selfish neediness, the tantrums, the emotions, the awful guilt when you lose your temper and shout. Whatever you did would be wrong anyway, - we all spend significant proportions of our lives attempting to straighten out the tangle of what our parents did to us. My chldren would be no different. And the worse, darker fears, - that you might turn out to be one of those parents who actually hits their children. That you might (because none of them ever think they will be before it happens) be one of those people who really damages their children. 'I did my best' you would tearfully tell yourself, as your offspring grew up to hate you. The sad fact is, there are many, many parents out there who should NEVER have had children. 'You always love your own children' is an insufficient guarantee that they will be safe with you.

And let's face it, children are BORING. I don't care how many people say 'Oh children are much more fun than adults', I always think 'Yeah, but none of your friends are 5 years old, are they?' When the chips are down, it's adults that we choose to share our lives with. You don't go to a child with your problems, or expect them to understand how you think and feel. Children are always credited with having amazing imaginations, but they don't; they are the most conventional and hidebound little creatures of habit imaginable. Adults make art, and science, and conversation. Kids just make a mess.

Childhood isn't much fun anyway, I would feel a bit bad about making anyone else go through it. Childhood is a long procession of being told what to do, where to go, have decisions made for you, opinions given to you, truths concealed from you, as you gradually claw out some autonomy for yourself. Finally, you are an adult and things get much better. Why force anyone else to go through all of that? Having to watch your child grow up and learn about pain and shame and betrayal and failure, and be powerless to alleviate their suffering (we all have to learn this, after all) must be unbearable.

And it's such a pointless task anyway, - it's not like anyone NEEDS any more humans. You give up your time, love, money, freedom, self-image, EVERYTHING in order that there is another human on the planet. And what does that human regard as the 'most important job it will ever do'? To make another human, and instantly give up the free life that you worked so hard to grant it.

But the actual reason I don't like kids? You know when you look at a little baby, and it curls its little fist, and something deep inside you goes' awww' and you long to pick it up? I don't have that. I get it for puppies and kittens, but babies just don't do it for me.

[backtothedrawingboard]

My sister was a romantic girl who grew up desperate to start a family. She married the man of her dreams but he turned out to be a free loading drunk. She spent seven years alone and unhappy and then met a wonderful, stable, solid guy who didn't want children. She decided that life with her new man was too precious and took priority over her previous dreams. We tutted and gossiped behind her back that it was awful she would never have children but eleven years on they are still both sublimely happy. They are a fantastic aunt and uncle for my DCs and I admire her for making such a difficult decision.

You do what is best for you. His decision can only be based on what is best for him.

[meltedchocolate]

I have a child and completely sympathised with that. Bottom line is you cant be selfish when you have a child, ever, and your life becomes about someone else and that isn't always appealing. I dont find it odd at all that some people don't want kids. If I had seen a video of my life before having DS I probably wouldn't have had him. I do love him, I do enjoy him, I probably will have one more (for DP), but I totally understand :)

[MangoMonster]

tiger you don't have to justify why you don't want children and I think your last post makes it pretty clear. It's not for everyone but I have to say I don't agree with your take on it, but the thing with kids is, you will never truly know unless you so it, you can only take an educated guess. If you have any doubts, don't do it, it's a massive massive thing.

[maypole1]

My view is your with the wrong man then if he wants children and marriage


Why would you stay with someone hoping you will be enough when you know now you are not when their are plenty of men who don't want children


I was with someone a year who didn't want to get married when I finally woke up and relised I was wasting my time clinging on he would change his mind then I found someone who wanted marriage and we have been married 2 years and are very happy btw ex was lovely we just didn't want the same things


Sorry but I think you two are wasting your time

[MangoMonster]

I think if you showed your oh that last post, things would be pretty clear for him.

[maypole1]

Don't take him not leaving as any sighn that he is happy many people cling on in the vain hope that the other will change their mind as you are hoping down the line he will say well fuck it who wants kids any way he may be hoping you change or have a happy accident


For example their are many women who are with men who doping want marriage but deep down are waited with baited breath for the day when they get asked and they will have the baby and move in , in the hope they are working towards a proposal


I just don't understand why people would want a long term relationship with someone who dose not want the same

[passionsrunhigh]

basically, OP, you are saying that having children is a big TRAP, as it's childhood itself (told what to do, bossed about by any adult - I actually hated that too about childhood). I think there ARE people who really enjoyed their childhood though - that is because their parents where special, wise, extremely kind people, but the majority loves parents because they feel that parents have done so much even if they were not that great. Majority sees their parents struggle, and for a child it;s upsetting as they are helpess wathers - struggle financially, or having bad marriages, or possibly health problems. So I would agree that majority aer pleased to grow up! I certainly did, as I do LOVE my freedom, and you are an even more extreme case of freedom-loving person, so I get it. But it's true that those who did have a really good childhood, do want children easily and happily, so it's obvious that you didn't. It's fear really, that's all it is, of another loss of freedom, just after you shaken off same when you stopped being a child.
However, most women want TO BE NEEDED more than they want freedom, it's something biological imo. And they'd be miserable if they aern't needed - with men it's hit and miss, you ar lucky to be loved for good, but mostly there's no guarantee of longevity, whereas with children you aer guaranteed that they'll need you, for at least 16 years, but if you aer a good parent, they'll continue loving you forever. I think with age being needed especially starts to outweight freedom - unless you are very passionate and accepted about a cause where you have a big talent, I'd say. It's a very strong instinct, wanting to be wanted.
As to children not being creative - too much of a generalisation, well, plenty of talented ones though at early age, in all fields, not that everyone gets one like that of course.

[xkittyx]

I dont agree at all about it being an innate biological thing for all but exceptionally passionate women. I am not adventurous. I work in a staid industry. Just dont want them! My husband needs me in his life. Thats enough for me.
40% of degree level educated women here in Scotland don't have children. Its not that rare!

[FabbyChic]

I never wanted children. I wanted a career. My children were not planned either of them, but they have enriched my life, kept me alive, gave me a reason to get up in the morning. I'd change loads about my life if I could go backwards, but I'd never change the fact that I had two wonderful children.

Their love is unconditional.

[Crumbletopping]

You have clearly thought things through very carefully Tigermoll, and I admire you for that.

So many people (myself included) are simply looking forward to "having a baby" when they get pregnant, and get an enormous shock when they discover it's not all a bed of roses. If you ever DO change your mind and have a mini Tiger, you are coming at it from a realistic angle and I think you may have a wonderful surprise at the incomparable joy he or she would bring you.

If your OH were to say he had to leave as he couldn't face a future without children, how would you feel?