Need help clarifying a few things please (long)

[InTheArmyNow]

Been with H for 10 years and we have 2 young dcs.
For the last 8 years he has been difficult to live with to say the least. The best description of his behaviour would be passive aggressive behaviour (so silent treatment for days on end, not doing little things on purpose - like doing the washing up properly-, accepting things and then being ressentful and grumpy about it, putting me&dcs down - mainly through facial expression and little words not no insults iyswim). Not talking about anything is one of the big issue that I have.

18 months ago I told him I had enough, that our marriage was a sham - which he agreed. So I decided to pull back and let him get on with things and see what happen. In a year:

• he stopped some very hurtfull behaviour like walking away/reading a magazine when I was talking to him straight away (Actually very hurtful for me because it showed he had full control over this behaviour)
  
• Started to be a little bit more involved with family life/the dcs (but not enough not to organize one of his hobbies on his dc birthday)
  
• in the last few weeks, has started to be more affectionate again, to talk a bit more (let's say for 5min or so) but not enough to be able to hold a conversation with me during a meal at a restaurant. He wasn't even able to look at me in the eyes either.
  

I know a lot of his behaviours could be classified as abusive but I don't believe he is an abusive person. He just has no idea how to express emotions/affection (incl with the dcs). And when under stress (like when having the dcs), he is using inappropriate methods, probably more suitable to a toddler/teenager than an adult.

I want to leave him. I don't love him anymore. Too many things that have destroyed love and trust. I am not myself anymore as I spend too much time having to 'ease' things so that he doesn't get grumpy.
But.... I can see the very hurt person in front of me. I know that I will hurt him by leaving him and I don't seem to be able to get pass that. As if I haven't done enough to save our relationship. That I should try harder as he done so much effort already. I get the feeling that I am expecting too much from him (you know baby steps ect...) and I should be supporting him instead.

So my question (if you managed to read all that lol) is do I expect too much from him? Should I support him more? Or is it a case of 'Enough is enough, you need to sort yourself out on your own'?

[garlicnutter]

Don't apologise for that, Army :)
It's what your thread is for.

[InTheArmyNow]

Sorry, probably using this thread to put in writing all the things I feesl uneasy about. Sometimes it feels like I am 'creating'a story iyswim. Perhaps because I am not ready to acknowledge ow bad the situation is.
But I think I need to be able to 'say' all these little things that I find so 'unconfortable'.

[InTheArmyNow]

Yes tat's one thing I am weary about. Giving so many chances, times are difficult etc etc... so many reasons.

I am totally able to say what is wrong and what I am not happy to accept now (believe it or not, before I couldn't put my fingers on it. It was so 'underhand' that I couldn't figure out what were the reason of my unhappiness and me wanting to leave!). So why is it that I still feel I 'ought' to try more? Why is it that I feel like I 'ought' to give him another chance? I know he has done a lot of efforts.

He was more affectionate but now is starting to get 'more sexual'. eg if he is giving me a kiss, it doesn't feel like an 'affectionate' kiss but one that should be the first step to sex. He is also trying to put his hand between my legs. I feel pressurized for sex as if things were good again and we should be going back to it. And I don't want to. Actually it makes me want to run for the hills! God, we still can't have more than a 10 min conversation before it dries out and everyone gets silent (unless I make the effort to fill the blanks). I don't want sex with somebody that I can't connect at such a simple level!
We haven't had sex for months and I do not want to go back to a situation where I would have sex with him because I 'ought' to and not because I want to.

[Poshbaggirl]

And if you are not careful 10 yrs will turn into 20 yrs.

[Poshbaggirl]

Dont want to bore you with my xh stories. But I know how you feel i really do. On my own for 10 yrs, but have been so reasonable to him for all that time. He still treats me like shit.
With having gone through so much for so long i can say with experience there is one question to ask yourself.
'what am i worth?'

[InTheArmyNow]

cheesesarnie, re the dcs, I found that I am tying to teach them some rules to live harmoniously and ... find that I have to remind H of exactly the same rules!
He is very snappy at them, tells them off constantly with ironic comments and then have a go at dc1 if he does the same!
Shouts at them for shouting...
Arrrrg....

[solidgoldbrass]

Honestly, get rid! He's had his chance to behave like a civilised human being and chosen not to, because he thinks that you don't matter, you are only a 'woman' and therefore he can do what he likes to you and the DC because he is the only person in the family who matters. Men like this don't change.

[InTheArmyNow]

Thank you all.
I have no idea if he is PA with others tbh. H has very few friends that he meets on his own (through his hobbies. It's not that I am not invited, just that I don't 'do' his hobbies). He has never wanted to meet my friends (he doesn't have anything to tell them - nothing in common).
but he is certainly very ressentful of his boss/work, has been for years but still hasn't started to look for another job (always a good reason, not the right time, been in that company for a long time so would be too 'dangerous' to get another job etc...). So I know he is at least bottling things up at work, if not acting PA (I have an incident in mind that could be PA. but again as he doesn't talk about work - apparently, it's of no inetrest to me- I can't tell for sure)
He seems to look unconfortable in most social occasions (and is avoiding them) but I saw him (but only the once!) being happy to go to a party, dance (!! unheard of too!) and just chatting away topeople he didn't know for the whole night. Does it mean he can be 'socially able' but doesn't want to show that side of him with me??? TBH I feel I don't quite know him sometimes.

As for an OW.. at the moment, I would nearly be happy if there was one and he would want to go and live with her!

Today H is away for the day. Left at about 7.00am and I feel light and relaxed, as I normally am not he is not around. I will organized the day with the dcs and just enjoy my day. I wish all days would be like that.

[cheesesarnie]

he sounds like my dh!mines a grumpy git who sulks and has tantrums.if dc are argueing he joins in 'telling them off' hes by far the worse!

[DontGoCurly]

contemptuous

[DontGoCurly]

Hmph. Beware of the husband that turn contempous, it can often be a sign he has his sights set on someone else.

Stop bending over backwards for him and stop making excuses for him. He is not a hurt person 'under stress' -he's an abusive prick who (as you correctly pointed out) has control over his behaviour.

Tell him to jog on.

[jjgirl]

i think you should suggest a trial seperation for a few months, and carry thru on the suggestion.

he does these things because you let him do it, put some boundaries in place so he cant do them.

[Yesterdays]

But I am not sure all his behaviours are under his control

Unless he walks away when his boss is talking to him , or is passive aggressive with everyone else , his behaviour certainly IS under control. When he trys to crack on he doesnt understand , what hes actually saying is he doesnt understand why you wont accept it .

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

((Army)), it's not your fault if he doesn't treat the DC as well as he should. It's all on him. So if those are tears of guilt, put the responsibility where it belongs.

But you all deserve better. Let thoughts of a happier home environment for the DC galvanize you if that helps.

And sorry to have made you want to cry.

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

But I am not sure all his behaviours are under his control... Or he is actually a b* that is quite happy to change as little as possible . But I haven't accepted it could be the case

Good question. Here's the book for you.

[InTheArmyNow]

poor treatment of those weaker than him

You've hit a nerve here...

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

Well, you're certainly getting quite a few hits on Loser Bingo:

• passive aggression
  
• put-downs
  
• frightening temper
  
• poor treatment of those weaker than him
  
• allergic to criticism
  
• treating you like an appliance, to be oiled only when malfunctioning
  

Of course he's a person and will be hurt to be left. And you, as an undoubtedly giving person since you have put up with this for so long, feel for him. But with the sense of entitlement he displays, you could keep on giving and he'd keep on taking.

Look at it this way: you're doing both of you a favour by leaving. You will have a stab at happiness, and he will have a chance to learn to be a proper respectful person if he ever chooses to . He clearly wasn't fully committed to doing that for you.

[InTheArmyNow]

My happiness?? I can be happy in these circumstances but there is a price to it.
It means that either he is not there
or I am acting as if he wasnt there and not taking/little notice of him. And I don't like the person I am becoming because I am doing the things he ws doing before and that I hated.

[InTheArmyNow]

I know some his behaviours are under his control.
But I am not sure all his behaviours are under his control (or more precisely that he acn't change them at the drop of the hat iyswim).

I have gone through tough times myself. I had PND after dc1 and didn't bond with him at all. Even though I tried my best, I found it extremely difficult to manage my temper with dc1. It took time. And I am wondering if this is what he needs.
Or he is actually a b* that is quite happy to change as little as possible . But I haven't accepted it could be the case

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

He certainly won't thank you for divorcing him. It will undoubtedly make him several flavours of unhappy. But that's no reason for you to stay. What price your happiness?

Btw, bravo on realising that if he changed some behaviours, it means they always were in his control to do differently, and that he chose not to treat you better.

[InTheArmyNow]

I know. He still gets grumpy at the slightest thing.
I got the silent treatment for a few hours because I made a comment he found unacceptable.
Something annoyed me yesterday. the dcs were playing fight together and dc1 hit accidentally dc2. dc2 started to cry, nearly hysteric because there was a spot of blood (not unsual behaviour with dc2). H had a massive go at dc1 whilst I was cuddling dc2. When I confronted him about it, he said that 'no he wasn't having a go at dc1. Just explaining him accidents are bound to happen when playing like this'
Now when you are saying to a 6yo 'What were you thinking about? Didn't you realize someone would get hurt?' in an angry voice, that is having a go isn't it?

[solidgoldbrass]

He's only chosen to stop some of the upsetting behaviour. He considers you a domestic appliance that needs the occasional bit of tinkering when it makes an irritating whining noise, but which will run along reasonably enough to make do with, and he can't be bothered to replace it until it breaks or wears out.

[Yesterdays]

Nobodys thrilled with a divorce . But look at it this way , your not happy , hes not happy , he will have the opportunity to meet someone else who DOES love him and he,ll also get a chance to be a better dad to the kids .
Your not responsible for him or his hapiness .

[InTheArmyNow]

Because in some ways I feel guilty that I will make him even more unhappy that he already is.

[Yesterdays]

Support him why ? He CHOSE to stop some of this hurtfull behaviour when he knew youd had enough , sounds like too little too late to me , when its gone , in my experience it doesnt come back .