What do I do about this sort of thing?

[exhausted2011]

H and I are separating
I will stay in the house, he will get a flat.
He earns a lot of money, but we have no savings, because he spends it all.
How can I talk to him about not being so bloody stupid with money?

Warning
His sense of entitlement is huge

I have one of his bank statments in front of me
In the space of one week he withdrew £1200 cash. Spent £300 in one bar, and wait for it.... £4200 on a flight to Australia. He has a ton of airmiles, why couldn't he use them????

Now, it's his money, he earns it. But I know he is not going to stop.
He will be able to afford to pay our mortgage, and a flat for himself, but he is going to have to stop spending like he is Rockefeller.
How can I make him take responsibility?

[Wafflepuss]

Oh Exausted I'm sorry to have upset you...clearly there is much more going on here than your OP indicated. Agree with AnyF, just get yourself away from him. Good luck.

[TotallyLovely]

How much does he earn? (Just nosy and amazed)

Did you say he was going to give you 2k a month?

[exhausted2011]

If I make a fuss and go through soliticor and courts he will never let it go, and it will get nasty.
If I say pay half of the household expenditure, he will think that is fair.
Which is way less than any court or CSA would give me because he earns 10x that.
My point is that if he doesn't curb his spending, he will be knocking on my door and he won't be asking for that money back, he will be telling me what a bitch I am. And similar abuse. I want it to be a clean break. I wish to God I could believe that we could agree an amount and that would be the end of it, but it won't be.
I know I'm not explaining it right
And I know everyone hates me because £2k seems like a fortune, I am very sorry about that.
If I have full time work I will be able to live off my own money, maybe that is the only answer. If I don't take anything from him, he can't get to me

But I can't guarantee that. I do contract work, I am in between contracts right now, so have no income.

[mummytime]

Have you had counselling? Is he out of your home?
You need both those things for your own mental health.

Detach, detach. And get a SHL (shit hot lawyer). That is why lawyers are paid so much, to deal with the things legally in a way you may not be strong enough to demand now.

He will then have to pay what you are entitled to, and that will be enough to live on.

[TotallyLovely]

Does the 2k include his share of the mortage and bills?

[whatsallthehullaballoo]

Nobody hates you.

[bufforpingtonchick]

'THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH HE PAYS ME, IT'S ABOUT HOW MUCH HE WASTES'

Sorry you're finding the split hard OP, but this is totally wrong. The only thing that matters now about his finances is how much he commits to you. Once it has a legal basis, he has no choice but to pay.

He can spend the rest of his earned income on Skittles if he wants, if he's bad with money it's no longer your concern.

[exhausted2011]

He hasn't agreed on anything yet.
£2k would be half of outgoings
He earns about £500k, there I said it
And we have a £600k house. Which was a 2 bed terraced house, recently had a loft conversion, so 3 bed tiny terraced house.

We have no savings, so maybe you can imagine how much he wastes.
Actually that's not fair, we have had some lovely holidays, I have benefited from that.
And he bought me a nice handbag and purse once.

I have a nice watch, I bought that myself before I married him, I collect Nectar points and Boots points to buy my families Christmas presents, and I have previously bought my clothes in Sainsburys and Ethel Austin.
But he wears Ralph Lauren, and has 2 £5k watches

And yes, I had a bloody good career before I married him, and have struggled getting back into it at the same level.

[bufforpingtonchick]

Use the courts, use CSA, they are there to protect you from precisely the things you are worried about! If you make an informal arrangement with him, he could stop paying at any time and you'll end up in court anyway. It must be really hard, but do it by the book OP, far safer.

[exhausted2011]

I do have to go now.
I'm sorry for being arsey
I was so thinking I was on track, and obviously I'm not

[Wafflepuss]

I don't hate you, our monthly mortgage/ bills are around £2k as well and like you I am in a small property, not flash at all.

Could you agree to sell the house and move into a smaller place which you could afford to run yourself? That way if your ex does default on his payments won't be worrying about being unable to keep your home?

You're going to have to allow him access to your DC so a totally clean break isn't going to be possible, but if you are not financially reliant on this bully then it may give you more peace of mind than you'd have if you live in a property which you could lose if he decides to get nasty?

[bufforpingtonchick]

You will get more than £2k a month going through courts, I am sure of it. Any lawyers or specialists on here? Please don't make an informal arrangement, you will still feel reliant on his whims.

[mummytime]

I have a friend who was divorced by her husband in her late 40's, she knows her settlement was only based on about 1/4 of his real money because he hid the rest. She had a SHL which is why despite him hiding money she still has a quite nice house, in a nice area, can do the education she missed out on when younger, and her daughter is looked after.

Please do use a lawyer and stop talking to him. For your sake and your DS's.

Good luck!

[GandTiceandaslice]

Well you need a really good lawyer as he earns about £41PM. You should get a real good amount of money.

[cestlavielife]

you need to tlak only thru solicitor and get finances settled - probably in court if he protests. other than what it is agreed to be paid in maintenance, you ahave no say on the rest.

well done for getting out - there are two things to focus on though:
contact arrangements for DC
finances

if he will be awkward,

get a good solicitor to argue your points

and a good therapist to talk to

dont pay solicitor to be a therapist! you need both people on your team (i saw a family therapist who hadalso been in family law so she was great - but would always say which bits were for lawyer to discuss and sort out)

[TotallyLovely]

I know you don't want to go through a solicitor but I think you shouls. Distance yourself from him so that all this stuff doesn't get discussed between the two of you and let the solicitors deal with it. How nasty do you think he would get? Physical or just verbal?

Problem is that if you just let him get away with paying half the household expenditure then he will be living a lifestyle hugely different to yours, as will your dc when they are with him. It doesn't seem fair.

[CelebratedMonkey]

I understand your concern and think you will be financially better off if you go through the courts if he earns that much - it'll be scary but worth it in the end. Good luck.

[tribpot]

I agree that the informality of the arrangement is a definite concern, whatever amount of money is changing hands (and in addition, the how it would be changing hands also needs to be sorted out so you aren't dependent on him 'remembering' pay the mortgage 'for you' each month).

You have deep, and understandable, concerns about him actually having the cash on hand to pay you the amount 'agreed' (and you seem pretty browbeaten into an unfair agreement) and the amount of emotional grief you're likely to get in the future when he fails to pay because he's spent his salary on another 5K watch. Another reason why a solicitor and a legal agreement would be a good idea.

And I think you also, understandably, feel that if he was less of a pillock with his money you could both have a significantly-above-average standard of living and why won't he simply accept that and do the decent thing? I think you do have to come to terms with the fact that he isn't going to, never would have done, and there's nothing you can do about it. Which is shit, but ultimately you will be better off (perhaps not financially but certainly emotionally) if you can put distance between you and him, whilst ensuring your DS maintains a relationship with him.

Half of outgoings just sounds wrong, when he has a huge and regular income and you have a less huge and less regular income. It feels like the whole thing's overwhelmed you today - take a breath and maybe try to break it down. If you really don't want to go to a solicitor, is there another way to make a binding agreement? That's step 1 (although I would go to a solicitor, explaining you are not after the maximum you could take from him but something that you feel is fair to you and your DS). Arm yourself with the steps to take if he fails to pay or if, as you predict, he comes and asks to alter the agreement when he realises he doesn't have virtually his entire pay packet to spend on shit for himself. (Again, this is really why you need a solicitor).

Unfortunately you want to have a reasonable discussion about money with someone who - even leaving divorce aside - is not reasonable about money. It simply cannot work, despite your good intentions.

[LaurieFairyCake]

I'm so sorry for what you're going through - domestic abuse is domestic abuse, no matter how much money is involved.

You are making the same mistake as many other victims of abuse - you are trying to deal reasonably with someone who is unreasonable - you CANNOT manage or manipulate this situation into him consistently giving you a small percentage of what you're entitled to. What you will have to do to get that will risk your mental health - you will be constantly reassuring him, walking on eggshells to get your small percentage.

You need to get a solicitor and go through the CSA and get what you're entitled to and enforce that - if further abuse or harassment comes your way you need to report it to the police and perhaps get a restraining order.

Please contact Womens Aid - this is not something you can manage yourself - you've tried, I've no idea how many years you've given to this manipulative, abusive arsehole but it's too many.

[oldqueenie]

you have had some really unhelpful answers on here, please don't be put off. am family lawyer. as his wife you are not just entitled to csa money for your dc but prima facie to a 50/50 split of matrimonial assets (or adjusted to make a fair division in all the circs) AND if circs warrant it to maintenance for yourself on an open ended or time limited basis (much more likely) to allow you to adjust to the end of the marriage and to meet any shortfsall in your reasonable needs. you really do need some good legal advice. really. get a reccommendation from someone who knows for a specialist matrimonial finance solicitor. it will cost you but wil be money well spent. it doesn't commit you to fighting in court but will help you achieve a fair outcome for you and your ds.
those posters who clearly think you should just be tightening your belt / working full time even if that's not what youy and h planned as best for your ds clearly have no idea what the law considers is a reasonable approach to your situation.

chin up! good luck.

[AnyFucker]

I want it to be a clean break.

Then you have to put things on a formal footing. Through the courts. Let them enforce it when he reneges.

If you try to keep it as an agreement between you two, then you give him carte blanche to piss you about and continue the abuse of you.

[exhausted2011]

Thank you all for your input

I know I am fooling myself thinking this is going to be straightforward.
On a good day, he will say let's leave the finances as they are, he will pay half, and then other days I can go and fuck myself.

I still have my old flat that we could go and live in, it's very small, but it would be ok. It's rented out( neg equity and it doesn't even break even on the mortgage)
Or I could rent somewhere completely new. I would like that.

He will want to be seen to be doing the right thing, so I doubt he will make me move out. Just make my life hell

He has been away for 2 weeks, he has had some time off work and been to see his mum in Australia. He has arranged to stay at a friend's house for the time being.

The solicitor I saw said that the best thing would be to try to sort it amicably, but she was also very keen to point out that his pension, shares, house are joint assets, and things like school fees would need to be taken into consideration.

I do have a lot of job prospects at the moment. I have a couple of serious phone calls every day, I could get a 12 month contract next week, but it's not concrete.

LaurieFairyCake- you're so right, I am still thinking he will be reasonable, I need to shake that.

[AnyFucker]

You sound lovely, and you deserve to be properly free of his control

[WibblyBibble]

Good god there are a lot of nutjobs on here and I'm not sure why. OP, of course he should support you while you care for his child- the law agrees with you on this so ignore the 'get a job' morons; I don't think they have any idea how reality works, what childcare costs, etc and seem to think men should keep everything they 'earn' while women have to pay for everything their (mutual) child needs. Get him to pay by bank transfer and refuse to discuss it with him unless in writing/through solicitors, so he can't be abusive about it.

[Saffysmum]

Ok, reading between the lines, I get the impression that he totally controls you, and even now you are scared to stand up to him. You say you had a great career and prospects which you put on hold...I had that too - my SHL is using that to go for spousal maintenance. Any good lawyer would do the same.

You say that if you go for what the CSA would class as the minimum (15% of £500k is a lot of money) then he would be unhappy, to say the least. So what? You invested time and effort and support into the home too. I guess, like a lot of us, you were the one juggling home/child/etc., to give him the opportunity to become the high earner he is.

You have to stop being worried about his reaction here. The law is on your side. With a good lawyer, you should be able to go for the same rate (my lawyer uses the CSA payments as a benchmark only) as CSA as a minimum. And you should probably get spousal maintenance.

I feel strongly that my kids should not have to lower their lifestyles because their father left. I supported my STBXH financially in the earlier days, gave up a good career to bring up our four kids...did 99% of the childcare, so that he could study, work his way up to being the high earner he is today. Are we entitled to our fair share? Absolutely. Am I entitled to spousal maintenance? Damn right I am!!

Get a lawyer who works for you. Recognise that the law is on your side. He may try to be unreasonable - but the law is there to ensure that you and yours are protected. He sounds a bully, you sound downtrodden by him. I can empathise with that.

However, at the end of the day, after a good lawyer has got you your fair share, you have to accept that what he does with the remainder is irrelevant: he can indeed spend all day being taxied around London in a Ferrari, lighting cigars with twenty quid notes....so what?

I work - I work hard; I contribute to the household expenses. I am happy to do this - I recognise that I need to, for myself, for my kids. For our lives and future. But I also realise that I gave so much to raising the kids, keeping the house, and enabling him to become the high earner he is today, to want my fair share too.