Just asked alcoholic dh to leave (again)...

[halfcaff]

Hi, have posted about this before. I allowed dh back home after only a few days back in March, when I had asked him to leave temporarily while he got some help for his alcoholism. He claimed to be totally shocked, intended to change and went straight to AA. Stayed completely sober for 2 weeks then started to slip, and has been slipping more and more ever since. He hates AA, and has stopped going. He has not looked into any other kind of therapy, counselling, hypnosis, etc. but has got anti-d's from GP which he has been taking for a month, just increased the dose. They seemed to help at first but now he is just drinking on top.

I have been attending Al Anon for a year, have read Co-Dependent No More by Melody Beattie, learned a lot about alcoholism and talked to both recovering alcoholics and partners of active and recovering alcoholics, and I have really struggled with making 'detachment' work when I just will not tolerate him drinking around the dc or coming home drunk, even if not very drunk. I had given him leeway by saying, look I know stopping is hard, but just please stay away if you want a drink after work or something. (He commutes over an hour away)

He let us down again last night, and there were two empty wine bottles in his backpack. He swore he hadn't been drinking.

I have just told him not to come home tonight or this weekend, except to collect some stuff and go to his mum's, and if he gets some real help there may be one more chance, but that is it. If he comes home tonight I will go to a solicitor tomorrow. I hate the thought of it.

If I knew he would comply quietly, I would feel little but relief. I just know he his going to try to talk me round again with promises and pleading - that's the bit I am dreading.

Any support, also 'shares' from those in similar circumstances, would be gratefully received.

[LieInsAreRarerThanTigers]

Excellent news! Can you tell us what the counselling organisation was, was it arranged through GP etc?

[Anjelika]

Hi Bobble and Halfcaff-that-was

Things have bucked up a bit for me. DH finally stopped his month long "lapse" on Sunday and went to a 2.5 hour specialist counselling session yesterday, which he organised all by himself. I know he was pinning a lot of hope on this session and he doesn't seem to have come back disappointed so fingers crossed for the moment. He is now back in the land of the living and whilst it's brilliant that he's helping out again and I have someone to mull over the day with, it is a bit odd adjusting to sharing my evenings with him again!! I'd got very used to eating on my own, being on the computer and watching what I wanted on TV. Bobble - I'm glad that you have found someone to speak to and Halfcaff-that-was, let's hope that your friend's experiences can inspire your DH.

[LieInsAreRarerThanTigers]

Hi bobble, Ticking along ok without him at the moment, knowing he is totally miserable with the situation but not knowing whether he is drinking or not...it's a bit odd but I'm getting used to it. He has ben looking into some alternatives to AA and I think counselling would help him, but he is so busy with work and won't take time off as he is freelance and loses money.
I have been enjoying my social life, seeing old friends, a wedding on my own and have just arranged to go to Cornwall for a 40th birthday. All of these things would have been not possible, or very anxiety-provoking, with him around.

[bobblehead]

Hows things Halfcaff?

Mine has majorly relapsed this past week and while promising not to drink again all mentions of AA/rehab are avoided. I actually called some colleagues of his today who I know buy drink for him and had an interesting chat with them and they are going to confront him next week and make it clear they will not do this anymore. I also called a friend of his who is a recovered addict (who he ditched as he became invloved himself). I've only met him once so I really didn't want to do it, but he was very kind and unaware of dh's problems and I felt better for speaking to him. Overall I just felt better to speak to people who are also affected by his drinking and see it for themselves.

Hope things are going ok for you, and you Anjelika. Its so hard isn't it?

[LieInsAreRarerThanTigers]

By the way, I am halfcaff - was inspired to change my name this week by someone's story about their granddaughter! You like it?

[LieInsAreRarerThanTigers]

It's a familiar scene Anjelika - my dh thinks he has made so much progress by cutting down the amount he did, i.e. having a few days in the week where he wasn't completely plastered at some point. I went out with a friend this week whose dh was depressed and decided off his own bat to stop drinking and go on a-d's, and is now absolutely evangelical about how wonderful this has made him feel. He is going to contact dh. Definitely the sort of friend he needs.
Having him out hasn't made things as calm as I might have hoped, and I just can't help feeling sad and sorry for him that it has come to this. I am already dreading going through the 'last chance' when he comes back, as I will again be forced into the position of being the booze police and I am not very optimistic really, feel we are going to go through all the lies and drunk bouts again then end up divorcing.
Dd is doing major pre-teen strops at the moment, hard to say if it's better or worse or no different with it being just me and the dc.

[Anjelika]

Hi Halfcaff. My nightmare continues. DH is still drinking and refuses to leave the family home. He says he is trying to stop and is almost proud of himself when he's only had a small amount to drink during the day. I am so fed up with him it's untrue. As he won't leave voluntarily and I can't get an occupation order as he's not violent, my only option is to file for divorce. All I want is for him to move out until he's sober and has sorted himself out a bit, just to give me some space as I can't bear having him around when he'd drinking. Sometimes he agrees to this but the next time I speak to him he's changed his mind again. Hope your morning goes OK tomorrow. I have told my DH I would feel a lot more kindly towards him if he wasn't living with us and I only saw or spoke to him when he was sober but he just doesn't seem to get it!

[halfcaff]

Anjelika, if my dh claimed to be going running I'd know for sure something was up!
He phoned tonight and said he would come over on Saturday morning, spend the morning with us then go when we go off to my parents, leaving me with the car, phew. I don't mind if he stays here when we're not, as long as he is gone when we get back. I just have to keep reminding myself that this is the best thing for all of us - he is tearful and miserable when he talks to us and still thinks he's being punished and he would do much better at home. History shows that is probably not the case.

[Anjelika]

Hi Halfcaff

Like you, I feel the outlook is bleak right now. I really want my DCs to grow up with 2 parents in the house but not if one of them is an alcoholic. As I have 3, it is so much easier when both of us are there - either at home or out in the park etc and I really worry that they just won't get enough 1 on 1 attention if it's just me who's there for them. However, if DH does not stop drinking then it will have to be just me. I agreed with him that if he did not stop drinking by last night, he'd move out until he did and he seems to have actually stopped. He went to counselling last night and has another session booked for Friday but he is really really struggling. He still refuses to go to AA although I think he's used their helpline recently. Your story about the bike fixing being a cover for drinking in the garage made me laugh. My DH has been pretending to go running in order to get drink. He gets all dressed up in his running gear and comes back without a bead of sweat on him. I even think he's been going out pretending to phone AA when in fact he's just been going out to get more drink.

[halfcaff]

Hi Anjelika

Sorry you are going through this again too. It's true what you say about 'being a step closer to being able to manage on my own' - it's been a gradual process as I have been almost entirely responsible for childcare etc for a long time, the only things he does are a bit of DIY (as and when it takes his fancy, not what actually needs doing necessarily!) and mowing the lawn, trimming hedges etc, and bicycle maintenance! (Usually a good cover for drinking in the garage). I have been increasingly having a separate social life, more often than not we sleep apart, and conversation is limited. So what exactly do I have to miss when he is not here? I even managed to get the chain back on dd's bike the other day (it was wedged, not a straightforward procedure) - something I would have left him to do before. Financially we are secure while he continues to work but that is always on a knife-edge, would be anyway but even more so because of his drinking.

He did agree to stay away - I sent him a link to a 'spare room' site and he is half-way between work and home, so can visit the dc when I say. I said if he came back I would move out with the dc and file for divorce, that if he wasn't prepared to respect my wishes then he clearly had no idea how serious the situation is. I think he has rented a room for a month initially, so I can breathe for the moment. Annoyingly he has taken the car, and I am wondering when I will get it back...

BCBG I fear that you are right about the pills, that is why I have insisted he is away for at least a month - that will be double the time he stayed sober before, and the higher dose really will have been established by then. He will also need another GP consultation at that time. I fear the outlook is bleak, but am trying to remain optimistic, whilst carrying on with other plans I have made. He has been going on like this for years, and so far has never missed a day of work, though he has gone in stinking at times. He's probably not the only one!

Planning a night out with a girlfriend mid-week soon, and going to a close friend's wedding this weekend. Were going to go together but I'd say there's a fairly good chance he would have ruined it!

[Anjelika]

Halfcaff - I really feel for you and remember you from the supporting a recovering alcoholic thread. Like yours, my DH is no longer a recovering one. He managed 25 days sober I think and has now been drinking for about the same time again but the situation is just getting worse and worse for me. My DH doesn't work so he has all day to drink. He is no longer capable of looking after the children (3 under school age) so I am paying a nanny the best part of my salary to look after them. At least I have absolute peace of mind when I'm at work rather than the constant worrying and it just means I'm a step closer to being able to manage on my own. I'd be interested to hear how anyone in my situation has managed to get their alcoholic partner out of the family home. I saw a solicitor on Friday and, unless he's actually violent or hurts someone, she said it's not possible. I talked to her about the possible risks of having him there and the emotional abuse but she said they don't count. My only option is to petition for divorce or go for a trial separation if he'll agree to it.

Anjelika

[BCBG]

He will say anything to maintain a status quo where he vpcan carry on drinking, and in his eyes, managing the problem. the tablets excuse is an old one my sister users. Guess what...she carried on drinking anyway. It won't be long before his binges are so frequent that his work can smell it on him and then he will be deeper in it than eve. He is an uncontrolled alcoholic, but because it is a bing pattern , like my sis, he doesn't, really doesn't think this is out of control. The difficulty is for you in that you have to stay firm, but he probably won't voluntarily seek help until he has got worse than this. He will blame you for any relapse in the meantime, but stick it out, it ill hopefully be worth it in the end.

[halfcaff]

Difficult phone call this morning as predicted he had not grasped the timescale of this and thought he had 'done his time'. He tried to backtrack on this when I said I wasn't doing this to punish him but to give me and the children the space we needed for some stability in our lives. Also as predicted he asked me where I suggested he should stay.
I think he has got it now, but still doesn't really understand why, and as he has always been a bit of a victim I am sure he really thinks he is being got at. The binge on wednesday night which was the last straw this time round was a 'huge mistake' and the increased dose of anti-depressants has now suddenly kicked in meaning he never wants to drink again and it would make him feel ill etc...
We are off bowling now (bus and train ride away as he has the car) to try and have some fun. Had to deal with a pre-teen meltdown this morning as dd suddenly found out the annual fair was on in the park where we used to live and she wanted to meet up with all her old friends there and she HATES me because I said no (This was at about 11 a.m. when she and ds were still in pyjamas, and it's about at least a 2 hour journey!)
More to come this evening when I hear what dh has planned and how he is getting the car back to me.

[halfcaff]

Thanks BCBG for sharing such a personal and painful story. It did cross my mind that his mum might have to deal with unpleasant scenes, but he is not moving in there, just staying for the weekend. He is still the main breadwinner for our family and he can't commute from hers, so I sincerely hope not!
I need to know he has got somewhere 1) to know he has taken this seriously and is not expecting to come home any day soon and 2) so he is not asking me what he should do next all the time. I think as long as he is floating around friends and colleagues he is going to keep pestering.
I am determined to stay strong. I know it's going to be hard.

[SaggyHairyArse]

Be strong. You need to tell him he can't come back until he has resolved his problems and even then it is not definite as you have had enough.

BCBG (((hugs)))

[BCBG]

Halfcaff... I really didn't want to add again to this thread because it's still painful, but I feel I have to say a couple more things:, 1) my sister went back to live with our elderly mother when she had run out of options and it was too much effort for her to find a roof over her own head. In the next three years she wore Mum into the ground, with the guilt, the FEAR of her rages, the drunken antics on the kitchen floor, the passing out...everything . A mums love is so strong that she felt obliged to try and help, and it was an intolerable burden that contributed to her death last year. She got money out of mum, convinced her that she was controlling or cutting down on the booze, then would suddenly lose it completely so that I had a crying and frightened elderly lady on the phone to me while I could hear the alcoholic ranting and shouting in the background. I aged 20 years in three . And let's assume your MIL realises that it's not her problem and gets him to move on. Where, exactly? My mum was terrified of the scene that might ensue, of the shame that would follow if she kicked the alcoholic out of her house. I had to do it for her, in the end, and it's only because my sits survived and is in recovery that I can live with myself for doing that.

Secondly, you say that " I want him to have found somewhere to stay for the next few months" and I can feel the craving for relief in those words....because if he is somewhere safe, you feel that you will be able to stop worrying. I meant it when I said that he has to sink to his personal bottom, and you have to let him. If he has nowhere to stay, so be it. If his friends tire of him, so be it. If his mum can't cope, so be it. Only when he is on the street, or as with my sister, in a filthy caravan somewhere, will his recovery instinct kick in. Or not. You have no option to be as tough as tough can be, and close your ears to the pleading: NOTHING will move him into dealing with the difficulty of recovery until for him, the option o NOT feeling with it is worse.

[halfcaff]

I have not had proof of him drinking and driving but I have suspected it a couple of times.

He texted to say 'Can I come home tonight?' I said he could come and collect some things, but basically 'refer to previous e-mail.' He's coming tomorrow morning to take a bag and the car to stay at his mum's for the weekend. He'll be back at work in the smoke on Monday, so will go to the next phase then. I'll probably have to really drum it in to him that I mean what I said and he needs to find a room/flatshare or something for the next few months. I really think he was hoping he could just come home tonight for good, thinking I would have calmed down a bit by now. He hasn't really got a clue.

[bluepaws]

does he drink and drive?

[halfcaff]

Yes these are the things I need to hear.
I feel I need to say I have been working at not enabling since I started at Al Anon. I have never had to clean up wee or vomit, and I made him put his own shitty clothes in the machine! He is still currently able to earn a good wage, it's just the leisure and family time which is suffering, although we have had some lovely days when he is sober. (He is not usually a difficult 'dry drunk' - just don't get why he drinks sometimes when things seem so hunky-dory)
I am sure it is only a matter of time before something goes wrong at work and he gets the boot (he is freelance although does nearly all his work for one company, so there would be no disciplinary, notice period or anything like that - he would just be out).
He is selfish, always has been rather, but is basically a good guy with a terrible problem which is affecting all of us. It is a terrible shame.
I am determined to stick to my guns. I know he is going to be asking me where he is meant to stay -he will be reluctant to sort this out himself.

[SaggyHairyArse]

I wouldn't give him another chance. My opinion is that you should not let him back into the family home until he has stopped drinking, full-stop. In the meantime, he gets support (that he arranges for himself and he sticks to whatever program he decides works for him) and you focus on yourself and bringing up the children and having your life.

Do not waste your time 'waiting for him'. Pursue your own happiness. If, IF, he does sort himself out and you haven't moved on then maybe there would be a smidgen of a chance that you can have a relationship again (don't tell him that!).

My opinion and advice is based on the fact that I asked my husband to leave last August, he left in the September, after many, many, many chances and I now could not be happier.

Alcoholics are selfish, they do not consider others, their primary concerns are themselves, drink and themselves followed by more drink. They also lie, a lot.

Now that I am not living under the daily weight of somebody else drinking themselves to death, I can see how abnormal our relationship was, the compromises I always made because of the drinking and generally just how shit our relationship and my life became. Really, no man is worth that. We all have the right to be happy and to be in a relationship where the whole families needs are recognised and not where everything revolves around one waste of fucking time idiot alcoholic.

You deserve better, you need to believe that!

gets off soapbox

[Thomas1969]

Sorry to say it but he must go and get his problem dealt with. Until then he does not get back into the house. Two weeks is no kind of abstinence. Its a joke. I know kicking booze is very hard but he has to know clearly from you that its not something you accept. Throwing him out and letting him back is proof to him that he can, one way or another, have his cake and eat it.

[popalot]

living with an alcoholic is a nightmare, frankly after having lived with one for 4 years I would say you must stick to your guns and if he doesn't change he doesn't come back. My life without my ex is happy and stress free.

They simply take up too much of your emotional time - worrying about them, having sleep deprivation, worrying about them with the children, perhaps they can be nasty (mine was). They also take up a lot of your physical time - cleaning up after them (vomit, wee, mess in the kitchen) and putting them into the recovery position and guiding them to the toilet so they don't make another mess. It is easier dealing with a newborn than a drunk. And a drunk's problems are never ending.

If you want to be this guy's carer then let him come back. I don't think anyone should be such a burden on someone and remain like that because they are loved by them. I would never do that to someone I love. I understand addiction but then I also understand some people are selfish, and if he doesn't want to go to AA then he is selfish and why should you give up your happiness and life for someone who doesn't care about your sacrifice.

Anyway, you probably know that you are an enabler (because of love and dedication no doubt). He needs to sort himself out alone. Otherwise he will never do it.

[halfcaff]

I threatened to see a solicitor straight away if he came back lastnight. He didn't so I am biding my time to see what he does at the weekend. I want him to have found somewhere to stay properly for the next few months and not keep pestering to come back here.
The worst thing he does really is to stagger around like an idiot talking rubbish which has completely destroyed dd's respect for him. There have been a couple of occasions when he has been out with us and has gone off drinking in secret so he could barely walk, has soiled himself, fallen over etc. in front of dd.
Mainly he then just goes to sleep, which is a relief all round.

[bejeezus]

I am not scared of being on my own, it's just the traumatic time ahead that brings me down)

i feel like this but I think if you leave the trauma becomes less and less (migt not stop completely because tey will always be in our lives as the father of our children) . But if you stay, the trauma just goes on and on.

the other thing I think which has been important to me is to really accept that this is going to be hell for a while and being prepared to endure it

I think thats what I mean about it being more painful to stay than it is to leave.

when are you seeing the solicitor? - mine put quite alot of emphasis on the disruption it caused for the kids (coming in in the middle of the night and disturbing everyone, me having to stay awake to make sure the door is locked, therefore affecting MY ability to look after the kids- stuff like that) You may be able to ham it up a bit if you wanted to try and get an occupation order. I have threatened 1 but havent gone through with it yet.

[halfcaff]

Sorry I meant to say there is nothing really dangerous I could quote, except for falling asleep when he was meant to be looking after a young child. He doesn't smoke any more, we don't have a gas cooker (!) and as I said I would never leave him alone with the kids now.