Is this a dealbreaker?

[irishma]

Hey guys..not a usual poster but love the advice yuu guys give and I could do with some now...

Been with my DP for 11 years now and we have a 4 year old DS.

My question is...we are not married nor engaged. We live together and have done for many years and we have a really great relationships..we are two very similar people and rarely fight. We adore our son and we have a really happy family unit going on.

Recently a lot of our friends are getting married. As someone gets married or engaged, it inevitably raises the question. "well when are you and DP going to give us a day out". And what do I say? He has never asked!! Ive never been one to put a focus on marraige though I do believe in the idea. We have been doing fine without it and I think our commitment is as stong without one as it would be with one.

Recently I went for dinner with a friend and as she was tipsy she had the courage to say that everyone thought it was weird that we werent engaged and basically I was good enough to sleep with and not marry and that if it were her then it would be a dealbreaker... if he doesnt ask then do I want to be with someone who doesnt want to marry me..

What do you guys think? Can I weigh up the great relationship up against the fact that he hasnt asked? I cant stop thinking about it and its making me cross...

BTW we have discussedmarraige on 3 occasions and something always came up at that time..

Sorry its so long!!!

[irishma]

We have discussed it and to be fair to him..there isnt anything that we couldnt discuss... I think the friends comments hit home because I never thought of myself sitting around waiting for a proposal, I always thought that what we have showed that we could take or leave marraige...

When I said I was shy..I meant I would never propose... Ill talk to him about this.. I was just curious if anyone had a similar experience...

[Cretaceous]

So were your three discussions you hinting at marriage, and he didn't take the hint? Or didn't you get that far?

[pinkbasket]

You have always shown that you can take or leave marriage? Why do you care what other people think so much?

[SolidGoldBrass]

Given that you seem to have got all the finances/practical matters sorted out so neither of you is at a disadvantage, I don;t think this is a case of a man exploiting his partner by not marrying her. TBH he may well have ideological objections to the institution of marriage - some people do - and not have wanted to say so flat out in case he hurt irishma's feelings.

ANd thinking that marriage 'ust be on the table' if you live with someone is the sort of thinking that leads people to marry those they think 'will do' and then make each other miserable. Marriage is not compulsory any more than heterosexuality or home ownership.

[irishma]

The three major discussions we had were 1. asking my da for my 'hand' as it were as he is a real traditionalist and I know he would like it..2. I dont wear rings and such so he was asking wht kind I like..3. after someone elses wedding we discussed things we liked at the wedding that we would incorporate into ours....

The first discussion..a sister got engaged and I wouldnt have taken away from that.. the next was my pregnancy and I dint want people to think he only asked cos I got knocked up..the next was just life really...redundancy illness etc....

We want marraige but its not a requirement...I dont know either Pink...I guess thats more of an issue than the whole marraige thing really!!!

[AnyFucker]

oh, for gawds sake, both of you book a cheapy marriage ceremony at the registry office and get it over with !!!

[SolidGoldBrass]

Agree with AF: maybe one or both of you would like to be married but don't fancy all the fuss of a 'wedding' - you can just book a registrar, grab a couple of mates and do the deed on the quiet if you want to.

[Cretaceous]

"I dint want people to think he only asked cos I got knocked up" You do worry a lot about what people think .

[ronshar]

Seriously that sound a lot like DH & I. We both discussed marriage several times and agreed we were not to bothered. Then we had childrena nd it seemed more important but by then every body we knew was getting married and we wanted to wait until a time when it was just us doing it. Yes I wanted to be center of attention not one of 5 weddings that year

Sit him down, tell him you have been thinking it over and it now feels like the right time to move it along. He will probably agree with you and by this time next year you will be on here saying "help me my friend said she wont come unless she can bring her 5 kids with her"!

[Manda25]

We discussed marriage once a few months into our relationship. He said he never wanted to be married. 9 years later ....and I guess he meant it lol. I see us having a (planned) child together as more of a commitment then getting married.

Not a deal breaker for me - just out of interest AF - what kind of 'finances' should we have sorted??

[mathanxiety]

'we have a will which really only states who will look after our son and that we want anything we have to go to him...'

You should each have a separate will, leaving everything to the other if you want, as well as the guardianship agreement for the child. Is the DP the registered father of the child? If not this will need to be established.

Seems like your DP needs a bit of a serious nudge and he's not averse to the general idea. Is he generally lacking in initiative or is it just where marriage is concerned?

If you think he's positive and ready to sign the dotted line, a simple ceremony at the registrars, maybe combined with New Years or some other occasion might be fine for everyone? Then the party for the friends -- maybe your dad could give a lovely speech...

But look at me, divorced, hahaha

[TDaDa]

Irishma - try not to let other people's views on marriage be too big an influence. How you feel is important. Your relationship and financial security and equality are very very important aspects. So if you can form an legal partnership that secures your interest and you have a good relationship then you are probably in a better position than the average marriage.

ON the positive side, you are staying together because you want to and maybe because of your child which is again a better position than many people.

[AnyFucker]

manda

everything in joint names (house either mortgage of tenancy, pensions etc), life insurance naming each other, separate wills naming each other as beneficiary and stating what happens to dc in event of your deaths, any children with both names on birth cert

errm...there are probably lots more

[said]

Your friend sounds incredibly old-fashioned. It simply wouldn't occur to me to wonder or care about whether or not people are married any more. I don't know anyone who would think this "weird". I think your friend probably has some issues with you not towing the line and that's unsttled her. Which has then unsettled you.

And marriage surely doesn't come about through people proposing anymore does it?

If you want to get married then just bring up the subject again - no-one needs to "propose". "Marriage - what do you think?Yes or no?" How about that?

[marantha]

What is it with marriage- why is it seen as so 'special'?

OK it IS special when it comes to legal/financial affairs. Can't underestimate how important it is for THESE issues. Because when all is said and done, it is not for the state to declare a person married with all the attendand rights and responsibilities of it (marriage)- the couple have to make that declaration themselves.
But commitment? Does getting married make a person committed or NOT getting married make a person UNcommitted?
Don't think so. In fact, I know so.

Just make sure you sort of the legal/financial situation (no such thing as common-law-spouse) in a way that suits you both and just go on living as you are.

[Manda25]

Cheers AF - I dont have any of the above sorted

[AnyFucker]

manda...you should

[pithyslicker]

I think the major problem if you are not married is if you split up. As in no chance of spousal maintenance and if you are a SAHM you wouldn't get more of a share of the house as you would if you were married. So don't leave yourself financially vulnerable

[mathanxiety]

Whether married or not, SAHMs are terribly vulnerable financially if a relationship hits the rocks.

[TDaDa]

Yes, definitely sort out your financial security but don't go spoiling your relationship by asking him about marriage....thinking about it isn't it a bit sexist to assume that the woman should want to trap the man. Let him sign over the house etc but I would leave marriage unless he wants to.

[marantha]

Not half as vulnerable as NOT being married.
In the scrum for fancy dresses, cakes, romance and wedding invites one very important point (the most important point) about marriage has been forgotten:

It is a legally-binding contract whereby two adults of their own free will (this is why nobody is 'trapped' into marriage) make a statement that they wish to be a couple and will from that point act like a couple

Everything they do from the point of marriage will be assumed by the courts in the event of a split to be for the benefit of the family unit, therefore childcare WILL be taken into account in the event of a split.

Why isn't it taken into account with cohabitees?
Because they haven't made a legally-binding arrangement and the state cannot impose the rights and responsibilities of marriage on those who haven't consented to it.

[marantha]

And nor should they.

[ronshar]

I think it is still the case that a man is not the legal guardian of his own children unless he is married to the mother.
We had to officially re-register our first two children after we got married.
Just something to consider if not married. Your partner has no legal right to make medical decisions etc.
It may have changed in the last few years but this was the case 4 years ago.