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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Is this a dealbreaker?

59 replies

irishma · 14/09/2010 10:16

Hey guys..not a usual poster but love the advice yuu guys give and I could do with some now...

Been with my DP for 11 years now and we have a 4 year old DS.

My question is...we are not married nor engaged. We live together and have done for many years and we have a really great relationships..we are two very similar people and rarely fight. We adore our son and we have a really happy family unit going on.

Recently a lot of our friends are getting married. As someone gets married or engaged, it inevitably raises the question. "well when are you and DP going to give us a day out". And what do I say? He has never asked!! Ive never been one to put a focus on marraige though I do believe in the idea. We have been doing fine without it and I think our commitment is as stong without one as it would be with one.

Recently I went for dinner with a friend and as she was tipsy she had the courage to say that everyone thought it was weird that we werent engaged and basically I was good enough to sleep with and not marry and that if it were her then it would be a dealbreaker... if he doesnt ask then do I want to be with someone who doesnt want to marry me..

What do you guys think? Can I weigh up the great relationship up against the fact that he hasnt asked? I cant stop thinking about it and its making me cross...

BTW we have discussedmarraige on 3 occasions and something always came up at that time..

Sorry its so long!!!

OP posts:

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Manda25 · 16/09/2010 18:40

Unmarried dad's do have parental responsibility for their kids (as long as the are on the BC) since 2003.

I am more worried for my family if I die then if my DP did. If we split up we would be fine.

glitzy · 16/09/2010 15:05

For info.. Nevada marriage Certificate is fine in the uk - and Vegas is a great place to tie the knot

mathanxiety · 16/09/2010 14:56

Make sure a Nevada marriage certificate is good in the UK (or Ireland if that's where you are).

Info links on getting married in Clark County (Las Vegas) Nevada.

AdelaofBlois · 16/09/2010 12:05

My partner and I really hated what marriage could be, looked at it hard, and found the only definite legal right that could not be assumed was paternity (relevant if the birth mother dies in child birth or will/can not name her partner). You seem like you've got the rest covered (although if nervous should check out house ownership etc.).

I don't know if you are worried practically, or just somehow feel you 'should' because that's how it is. In which case you do need to think about the strength of your feelings. Good piece posted here. You don't really have to share its political viewpoint to notice the love in that relationship, or the points about what questions women are made to answer:

www.thefword.org.uk/features/2004/03/are_you_married_if_not_why_not

irishma · 16/09/2010 11:57

Nope..Now I shall hang my head in shame over the fact that I let other peoples comments get to me......

OP posts:

ronshar · 16/09/2010 11:46

Yeah a little white chapel wedding. Excellent.

So not the deal breaker you thought then

irishma · 16/09/2010 11:39

And sorry for the double post!

OP posts:

irishma · 16/09/2010 11:37

Seriously lads..thanks for the replies!

Just to update: I did bring it up with him.. My DS started school last week and he came home with a form to be filled in from school-you know the type..name dob next of kin. Because we are not married, DP had to sign stuff giving consent for all manner of things and I had to send a copy of his BC. Because you are right Ronshar...apparently DP has no rights..if you are not married the responsibility falls to the mother..

Anyways, so Im filling them in and I says "this would be easier if we were married you know (ha ha ha)" and he says "yeah we really need to get that sorted alright"..I just kind of laughed and off he went and no more was said.

This morning he was talking about our trip to Vegas next year and he asked did I want to invite anyone to come with us..He says just in case we decide to get hitched over there which he knows would be right up my street... I guess it only needed to be said..It wasnt the big deal that I made it to be!

OP posts:

irishma · 16/09/2010 11:25

Seriously lads..thanks for the replies!

Just to update: I did bring it up with him.. My DS started school last week and he came home with a form to be filled in from school-you know the type..name dob next of kin. Because we are not married, DP had to sign stuff giving consent for all manner of things and I had to send a copy of his BC. Because you are right Ronshar...apparently DP has no rights..if you are not married the responsibility falls to the mother..

Anyways, so Im filling them in and I says "this would be easier if we were married you know (ha ha ha)" and he says "yeah we really need to get that sorted alright"..I just kind of laughed and off he went and no more was said.

This morning he was talking about our trip to Vegas next year and he asked did I want to invite anyone to come with us..He says just in case we decide to get hitched over there which he knows would be right up my street... I guess it only needed to be said..It wasnt the big deal that I made it to be!

OP posts:

ronshar · 16/09/2010 10:25

I think it is still the case that a man is not the legal guardian of his own children unless he is married to the mother.
We had to officially re-register our first two children after we got married.
Just something to consider if not married. Your partner has no legal right to make medical decisions etc.
It may have changed in the last few years but this was the case 4 years ago.

marantha · 16/09/2010 09:52

And nor should they.

marantha · 16/09/2010 09:49

Not half as vulnerable as NOT being married.
In the scrum for fancy dresses, cakes, romance and wedding invites one very important point (the most important point) about marriage has been forgotten:

It is a legally-binding contract whereby two adults of their own free will (this is why nobody is 'trapped' into marriage) make a statement that they wish to be a couple and will from that point act like a couple

Everything they do from the point of marriage will be assumed by the courts in the event of a split to be for the benefit of the family unit, therefore childcare WILL be taken into account in the event of a split.

Why isn't it taken into account with cohabitees?
Because they haven't made a legally-binding arrangement and the state cannot impose the rights and responsibilities of marriage on those who haven't consented to it.

TDaDa · 15/09/2010 23:06

Yes, definitely sort out your financial security but don't go spoiling your relationship by asking him about marriage....thinking about it isn't it a bit sexist to assume that the woman should want to trap the man. Let him sign over the house etc but I would leave marriage unless he wants to.

mathanxiety · 15/09/2010 22:54

Whether married or not, SAHMs are terribly vulnerable financially if a relationship hits the rocks.

pithyslicker · 15/09/2010 21:37

I think the major problem if you are not married is if you split up. As in no chance of spousal maintenance and if you are a SAHM you wouldn't get more of a share of the house as you would if you were married. So don't leave yourself financially vulnerable

AnyFucker · 15/09/2010 19:53

manda...you should

Manda25 · 15/09/2010 19:46

Cheers AF - I dont have any of the above sorted

marantha · 15/09/2010 19:46

What is it with marriage- why is it seen as so 'special'?

OK it IS special when it comes to legal/financial affairs. Can't underestimate how important it is for THESE issues. Because when all is said and done, it is not for the state to declare a person married with all the attendand rights and responsibilities of it (marriage)- the couple have to make that declaration themselves.
But commitment? Does getting married make a person committed or NOT getting married make a person UNcommitted?
Don't think so. In fact, I know so.

Just make sure you sort of the legal/financial situation (no such thing as common-law-spouse) in a way that suits you both and just go on living as you are.

said · 15/09/2010 19:40

Your friend sounds incredibly old-fashioned. It simply wouldn't occur to me to wonder or care about whether or not people are married any more. I don't know anyone who would think this "weird". I think your friend probably has some issues with you not towing the line and that's unsttled her. Which has then unsettled you.

And marriage surely doesn't come about through people proposing anymore does it?

If you want to get married then just bring up the subject again - no-one needs to "propose". "Marriage - what do you think?Yes or no?" How about that?

AnyFucker · 15/09/2010 19:24

manda

everything in joint names (house either mortgage of tenancy, pensions etc), life insurance naming each other, separate wills naming each other as beneficiary and stating what happens to dc in event of your deaths, any children with both names on birth cert

errm...there are probably lots more

TDaDa · 15/09/2010 19:14

Irishma - try not to let other people's views on marriage be too big an influence. How you feel is important. Your relationship and financial security and equality are very very important aspects. So if you can form an legal partnership that secures your interest and you have a good relationship then you are probably in a better position than the average marriage.

ON the positive side, you are staying together because you want to and maybe because of your child which is again a better position than many people.

mathanxiety · 15/09/2010 18:44

'we have a will which really only states who will look after our son and that we want anything we have to go to him...'

You should each have a separate will, leaving everything to the other if you want, as well as the guardianship agreement for the child. Is the DP the registered father of the child? If not this will need to be established.

Seems like your DP needs a bit of a serious nudge and he's not averse to the general idea. Is he generally lacking in initiative or is it just where marriage is concerned?

If you think he's positive and ready to sign the dotted line, a simple ceremony at the registrars, maybe combined with New Years or some other occasion might be fine for everyone? Then the party for the friends -- maybe your dad could give a lovely speech...

But look at me, divorced, hahaha

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Manda25 · 15/09/2010 18:30

We discussed marriage once a few months into our relationship. He said he never wanted to be married. 9 years later ....and I guess he meant it lol. I see us having a (planned) child together as more of a commitment then getting married.

Not a deal breaker for me - just out of interest AF - what kind of 'finances' should we have sorted??

ronshar · 15/09/2010 11:44

Seriously that sound a lot like DH & I. We both discussed marriage several times and agreed we were not to bothered. Then we had childrena nd it seemed more important but by then every body we knew was getting married and we wanted to wait until a time when it was just us doing it. Yes I wanted to be center of attention not one of 5 weddings that year

Sit him down, tell him you have been thinking it over and it now feels like the right time to move it along. He will probably agree with you and by this time next year you will be on here saying "help me my friend said she wont come unless she can bring her 5 kids with her"!

Cretaceous · 14/09/2010 17:34

"I dint want people to think he only asked cos I got knocked up" You do worry a lot about what people think .

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